Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[Big Juicy]

By the way, all this talk about people hoping, forgiving, being .... hurt, practicing tough love, voting with their dollars, joining cults, bungee vaping, et al has me thinking...

There are some vendors who certainly deserve moundsa of praise for their customer service. Goodejuice, who FINALLY improved their 5th grade art class labeling to a legit and classy style has on 5 out of 6 orders I placed with them shipped SAME DAY, the 5th order shipped inside 48 hours. That is ridiculous outstanding. Ahlusion communication is as good as it gets, with email updates of 1) order received, 2) order being mixed, and 3) order shipment. There are never any concerns with a sometimes week or so lead time because they state right up front on their website and order screen that there may be a delay. Lovely. MOV has a history of lightning fast orders. My last order was during their FDA sale where they were BURIED in orders and mine still went out within 24 hours. My Backwoods Brew orders always go out within 48 hours, typically within 24 hours. Want2Vape, for me, has been pretty consistent...my last three orders have shipped within 2, 3, and 3 days from order date. Personally I have had very pleasant experiences with RBFS, MVJ, and Trabuco all of whom many of us know sent out samples (and not just a few, but a LOT of different juices) to multiple NETizens free of all charges and got those orders out exactly when they said they would.

Nobody beats Goodejuice on turnaround. MOV is typically really fast as well. Ahlusion's "we are mixing your order" emails set them apart as well.

I guess I am saying that there are a lot of people doing it right.

 

[MikeNice81]

By the way, all this talk about people hoping, forgiving, being .... hurt, practicing tough love, voting with their dollars, joining cults, bungee vaping, et al has me thinking...

There are some vendors who certainly deserve moundsa of praise for their customer service. Goodejuice, who FINALLY improved their 5th grade art class labeling to a legit and classy style has on 5 out of 6 orders I placed with them shipped SAME DAY, the 5th order shipped inside 48 hours. That is ridiculous outstanding. Ahlusion communication is as good as it gets, with email updates of 1) order received, 2) order being mixed, and 3) order shipment. There are never any concerns with a sometimes week or so lead time because they state right up front on their website and order screen that there may be a delay. Lovely. MOV has a history of lightning fast orders. My last order was during their FDA sale where they were BURIED in orders and mine still went out within 24 hours. My Backwoods Brew orders always go out within 48 hours, typically within 24 hours. Want2Vape, for me, has been pretty consistent...my last three orders have shipped within 2, 3, and 3 days from order date. Personally I have had very pleasant experiences with RBFS, MVJ, and Trabuco all of whom many of us know sent out samples (and not just a few, but a LOT of different juices) to multiple NETizens free of all charges and got those orders out exactly when they said they would.

Nobody beats Goodejuice on turnaround. MOV is typically really fast as well. Ahlusion's "we are mixing your order" emails set them apart as well.

I guess I am saying that there are a lot of people doing it right.

I think that kind of magnified Clay's problems. There are so many vendors that are offering next level service.

I think the longest I ever waited for an order was from MVJ. It was about three or four days. That was a contest win with six bottles and some samples thrown in. Samples with a contest win? That is how you push brand loyalty to the next level.

Every n-e-t vendor I have dealt with has been excellent. In fact every vendor has been excellent with one exception. Smoke Evolution even helped me out in a pinch after the USPS lost my wife's Mother's Day gift. I don't think I've ever dealt with an industry that had so many top notch companies.

 

[billherbst]

how do you rate the new Godfather NET liquid? I saw some fairly mediocre reviews by some members soon after purchasing and the consensus seemed to be 'let's wait and see how it vapes when it steeps a bit'. Has anyone vaped it after a good steep and what is your opinion?

Fresh out of the mail, Godfather was nothing special (to me). I haven't had it long enough for steeping to produce a miraculous transformation, so I leave that possibility open and unknown.

Also, is the current batch of Patriot vaping as well as it used to?

I'm not a fan of Patriot. I have both versions, but neither is my cup of tea. Vita Bella, on the other hand, is one of my all-time favorite retail NETs.

 

[Big Juicy]

I had my longest affair to date with Mistress Patriot over the last 3-4 weeks. I kicked her out of bed last night. She wore on me. I don;t know what it is. Now after tasting her during parts of every day for an extended time period she is a bit to dry, crisp, almost dusty to me now. I have tried fitting it into my fickle tastes at many different times of day and moods and I can't find a slot for it. My guess I put it away for 4-6 months again until the craving hits me.

I am really on the fence with Acadian Gold. I enjoy it and I respect it, just not sure it is a reorder for me. To my tastes it lies somewhere between an analog cig vape and Patriot style Virginia pipe blend. I am not sure that is a groove that needs filling for me. Between NETCOm and Bill's most excellent Organic Spirit juices and the multiple DIY Burley and Virginia blends I have on hand I am not left wanting. I will say this, Acadian Gold single handedly got a friend of mine off of cigarettes.

After all the talk I loaded up some more Louisiana Red, this one is Johni's extraction. Damn I really like this stuff. A really good example of why I cant find a spot for Patriot. As nice as it can be I would never reach for it over something like this.

 

[billherbst]

My drippers are just basic ones with a side airhole small enough to get a tighter draw, and a small chamber to maximize flavor...

Like Jerms, I use basic 14mm-diameter dripper RDAs with a side airhole and small chamber. I've converted all of mine from dripping to bottom-fed, because I use them exclusively on my stable of bottom-feeders. (With a Dremel and a micro-bit, I drill a juice channel through the silicon insulator that surrounds the positive pin on the 510 connector and goes up through the RDA onto the deck surrounding the positive coil post.) My confession is that, while I'm not a cloud-chaser and never do direct lung hits, I've come to like an airier draw. On most of my RBAs, I've bored out the side air hole from the original 1/64" to 1/16". My Kayfuns and Aspire Nautilus tanks have a similarly loose draw. Whenever I pick up an EVOD-style or T3 clearo, however, or if I'm dripping with a standard old-school 510 atty, as I do frequently, I notice the tighter draw instantly. That's fine, but I'm always aware of the extra effort to inhale.

It's not that I regard one draw---tight or loose/airy---as better for flavor, I've simply become accustomed to the effortless mouth inhale of the airier type.

 

[Jerms]

Like Jerms, I use basic 14mm-diameter dripper RDAs with a side airhole and small chamber. I've converted all of mine from dripping to bottom-fed, because I use them exclusively on my stable of bottom-feeders. (With a Dremel and a micro-bit, I drill a juice channel through the silicon insulator that surrounds the positive pin on the 510 connector and goes up through the RDA onto the deck surrounding the positive coil post.) My confession is that, while I'm not a cloud-chaser and never do direct lung hits, I've come to like an airier draw. On most of my RBAs, I've bored out the side air hole from the original 1/64" to 1/16". My Kayfuns and Aspire Nautilus tanks have a similarly loose draw. Whenever I pick up an EVOD-style or T3 clearo, however, or if I'm dripping with a standard old-school 510 atty, as I do frequently, I notice the tighter draw instantly. That's fine, but I'm always aware of the extra effort to inhale.

It's not that I regard one draw---tight or loose/airy---as better for flavor, I've simply become accustomed to the effortless mouth inhale of the airier type.

I've also come to enjoy a slightly airier draw for a mouth hit. 1.5mm, or 1/16" as you described (close to the same thing) is about my limit though. It's kind of odd at first switching to a tighter dripper after using a slightly airier one, but I adjust quick to anything that's not too tight or too airy for me. It's funny, while you and I may consider the 1.5mm a looser draw, the RBA world considers that a tight draw. I've been reading about how the Veritas isn't much for clouds because it only has a single 3.5mm airhole... excuse me, ONLY 3.5mm? Lol.

I try not to say 'never' much, but I'm fairly confident in saying there's an extremely high likelyhood that I'll never be a lung hitter. A lot of these newer drippers seem to be made to work best with taking lung hits, which makes them not for me. It's just not an enjoyable technique for me at all.

 

[Mazinny]

I am considering buying some of the mvj extracts tomorrow. i have some questions which i would greatly appreciate a response to if any of you have purchased them before, or would know the answer to anyway.

1- is there a small amount of nicotine in these, significant enough to make a difference when mixing with a pg/vg/nic base.
2- is this the process they use themselves to make their ready to use liquid, i.e. mix the extract with pg/vg/nic base.
3- if so, what is the proportion of extract to pg/vg/nic base they use approximately, to arrive at the final liquid

also, i don't really know enough between different tobaccos and their effect in blends really to make a purchasing decision re the exact extracts i might order, but based on the following juices i really like could someone make any recommendations, or are my likes al over the place :

could vape all day :

HHV- shadow, huntsman, dark horse, pirates booty, gaia, temptation, dragons fire, serendipity
GeJ- gj4, wild turkey, patriot, organic
Ahl- sahara blend, caramel wildwood
MOV- southern gentleman

Could vape in small doses only :

Ahl- BGB, devil dog
MOV- apache pendragon
GeJ- Acadian Gold, natural perique

Thank You !

 

[papabogart]

I would think, given your signature line, that you'be more than aware of the fact that "character flaws" can be overcome and amends for past transgressions successfully made. Those amends may not always be taken as one would want, but they can be made nonetheless and MUST be for the person to move on and heal.

That said, I wouldn't advise anyone who has any misgivings about a vendor do business with them. Excuses and justifications...even if facts...cannot change the past. I will say he offered no laundry list of excuses to me, merely amends and excitement about righting the wrongs of the past and moving forward. He knows this will be a long process and he says he is committed to that. The only thing Clay can do for clients he has lost or those who are reluctant to do business with him is to make amends to those people who ordered with him the last few months, and make essentially living amends to the market as a whole by providing exemplary customer service moving forward. What the market bears after that is out of his control and none of his business.

I was an enthusiastic supporter (see definition of "fanboy") of the NET,com concept of providing single varietals that allowed for home experimentation. Clay's extractions may not have been "stop the presses" fantastic, but they were good and solid extracts. I'm still a fanboy of that concept.

Without belaboring the issue, yes, some people can and do overcome their weaknesses and flaws, others can't or wont. Often times, past transgressions are followed by assurances of intended change. All too commonly, those assurances turn up empty. Eventually, only actions can do the talking.

Some things seem to have been lost in translation. I didn't just throw that idiom or the Al Wilson song into my posts to be clever. They (and my signature line) are meant to convey certain realities in addressing the situations in which we all can find ourselves. When or if I purchase from NET.com (depending on the actions I see), any frustration that may follow will be solely of my own making, not Clay's. Hopefully not, but should disappointment ensue, you won't see me posting weekly updates about juices I have not yet received or replies to emails not made. I encourage others who take the dive to do the same and let this issue rest.

 

[boomerdude]

My comment was meant to convey the premise that NET.com and others like Vapedudes are forced into the predicament in order to stay in business. It was not made to accuse anyone of maliciously trying to rip people off as that is evident due to everyone getting their orders. I also said that it was my impression, not a conclusion. Just as you said, we can only speculate. I just want to clarify, that's what it was, speculation. I think your knee-jerk comment that I accused NET.com of being malicious was un-called for, as it was just an impression..The maliciousness was your speculation.

I personally find it logically impossible to jump to the conclusion of some sort of malicious pyramid scheme absent some proof, which none of us have or probably ever will have. There are a myriad of possibilities for the delay and continued acceptance of new orders, including perhaps just being overly optimistic that he could get caught up in a short amount of time. We can only speculate and will probably never know.

Call me a sucker or naive, but I tend to subscribe to the three strikes idiom vs. fool me once/twice. We're all human and have all made mistakes that have impacted others. I did get the benefit of my bargain, eventually. What matters most now is lessons learned and actions going forward. Clay seems to be off on the right foot with adequate staffing for future contingencies, technical know-how to manage website orders, and a solid sale. Speaking of which, someone please post the details of that sale once they are available.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[boomerdude]

You are correct RD, it was a wrong choice of words. I meant to convey my impression that maybe they had put the cart in front of the horse, so to speak. I did not mean to convey any dishonesty and for that I apologize.

Obviously boomerdude needs to look up the definition for "pyramid scheme" since he used it incorrectly... but what he is displeased about can't simply be dismissed by his poor choice of wording.

While I understand why some are unhappy and unwilling to put any faith into doing further business with N-E-T.com... I'm not one of those and I also don't consider myself a "fanboy" even though I do enjoy the products that Clay sells. I do however feel that there is a reason that we don't know of that kept Clay from being able to stay in contact and whatever it was, was unavoidable.

 

[Big Juicy]

Can anyone either explain to me or direct me to a previous post the suspected (or confirmed?) makeup for the tobacco in the Ahlusion - Wild Wood line? I am thinking it is synthetic AND NET of some unknown orgin, but not sure. Thanks!

 

[Frankenmizer]

Sorry for the confusion Dust, Bill and others.

Trying to type a lengthy and well written response on IPhone is a handicap for sure.

I will elucidate what I meant with an example-

If I order La Gloria Cubano 18 mg nic, Ken will send me a bottle of La Gloria Cubana in its extract form with 18 mg nicotine. Based on what Ken has described to me his process, he will send the liquid of my choice at the requested nicotine level.

And that is what the experience of vaping it feels like e.g vaping an extract of a macerated tobacco with nicotine in it.

he doesn't sell extract with the purpose of the end user diluting the extract themselves.

He sells it as a final product and he recommends that users vape it as it is. I have also been told by others that mixing PG flavorless nic into the extract diminishes the flavour a bit. Having said that, the flavours are quite intense in their extract form.

That sounds a bit confusing to me but I can only put it down to those users not being aware that most, if not, all NETs are being mixed with Flavorless juice in creating the final product.

I can only surmise that the majority of users are not savvy and experienced NETizens who are well seasoned with having tried a variety of NETs from different vendors. This is reinforced by the fact that there is not much coverage of Walkers Tobacco Alternatives in this thread.

For my own purposes, I see great value in mixing them with flavorless PG. This increases the value one gets for their purchase, cuts down the gunk factor a bit and allows the juice to blossom a little beyond the murky concentration. Adding PG also allows the juices flavour base to blossom once it has fully steeped and it also provides a little more throat hit.

Having said all that, I find the liquids highly satisfying as they are in their end product form and intended to be Vaped by the vendor. My reason for diluting them is more to thin them down a little with PG and just to cut down that gunk factor a bit. In terms of flavor, I would be happy to vape them as they are.

I would mirror Anthony's comments. Ken Walker is very up-front in saying his product is best vaped as-delivered.

Duane Green has an extensive live interview with Ken in Vaping With AG: Episode 26: Walker Tobacco Alternatives!

I have a order incoming shortly from WTA, and as I said with SmugJuice, we'll see what there is to be seen.


Edit: Ken talks about WTA starting at the 43 minute mark.

 

[Frankenmizer]

The Alec Bradley,STP Cao Italia and Garo Double habanero

Oh my, bet that'll be a hot vape..

 

[AnthonyB]

Hey Anthony, while I'm not here to shoot the proverbial messenger, I have to agree with Bill. This is just plain wonky. If it weren't for your research and sharing this with us, we'd be in the dark (like the liquid) on this vital information. Which brings me to my biggest gripe. He needs to be clear about this on his order page. Plain and simple. What makes it even worse is he's shredding up VERY expensive cigars and expecting the uninitiated to kill their hardware on the resulting sludge. It's a very misguided model and I have no doubt people will catch on to it eventually.

Glad you are not shooting the messenger buddy

I see your point clearly. Walkers should perhaps have their marketing sights set on people like you or I and others here that understand extraction of natural tobacco at a keener level than a novice or intermediate who is searching for a tobacco like vape and unwittingly happen upon Walkers offerings.

In defense of the vendor though I have seen him post about the gunk problem on his Facebook and recommend suitable set ups and coils to handle the gunk.

While his enterprise is still small and sold to a community of consumers who find about his juices by word of mouth or through Facebook I think the issue of proper communication and consumer responsibility is not as important as it will be if he starts to branch off into the mainstream channels of distribution where users may purchases the juices on a third party online store where they may not be exposed to information regarding the inherent gunking problems of the juices prior to purchase.

I expect that the laws of supply and demand will determine how popular his juices are. Gunking is not something that is hidden from the user. They will either re-order or they won't.

Ken is a fairly charismatic character and knows how to market his product and I suspect the relative popularity of his juices are based on this ability.


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[AnthonyB]

I personally find it logically impossible to jump to the conclusion of some sort of malicious pyramid scheme absent some proof, which none of us have or probably ever will have. There are a myriad of possibilities for the delay and continued acceptance of new orders, including perhaps just being overly optimistic that he could get caught up in a short amount of time. We can only speculate and will probably never know.

Call me a sucker or naive, but I tend to subscribe to the three strikes idiom vs. fool me once/twice. We're all human and have all made mistakes that have impacted others. I did get the benefit of my bargain, eventually. What matters most now is lessons learned and actions going forward. Clay seems to be off on the right foot with adequate staffing for future contingencies, technical know-how to manage website orders, and a solid sale. Speaking of which, someone please post the details of that sale once they are available.

Just my 2 cents.

Completely emotional and biased as this sounds, but Clay is my 'bro'.

His generosity, respect, time and patience with me last year is what endures in forming my opinion of him.

Glad to hear is finding his way back.



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[AnthonyB]

My most used build is just a standard compressed micro coil, 1.5mm to 1.7mm (around 1/16 inch inner diameter). Sometimes I go a little bigger into mini territory, about 1.7mm to 1.9mm. However many wraps it takes to get the 28ga to 1 ohm, often 7-9 wraps. That's just purely for the reason that 1 ohm 28ga Kanthal is the level of power I prefer using mechs. If I had a variable power unit that could go higher than 15 watts, I would make the coil closer to 1.5 ohms so I could make more wraps.

My drippers are just basic ones with a side airhole small enough to get a tighter draw, and a small chamber to maximize flavor, like the IGO-S, ERA, A6. My personal favorite is my EHPro Atomic clone. It's has more options than I need, like 3 posts and a bunch of airflow options for single or dual coils. I just stick to the same single micro and only use the smallest airhole. There's a bunch of new drippers I want to try that reportedly give great flavor like the Magma, Origen, Plume Veil, etc.

Thanks for that Jerms. I am going to base my future builds around this model.


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[Mr.Mann]

I would mirror Anthony's comments. Ken Walker is very up-front in saying his product is best vaped as-delivered.

Duane Green has an extensive live interview with Ken in Vaping With AG: Episode 26: Walker Tobacco Alternatives!

I have a order incoming shortly from Walker Tobacco Alternatives, and as I said with SmugJuice, we'll see what there is to be seen.


Edit: Ken talks about Walker Tobacco Alternatives starting at the 43 minute mark.

Small tweak. LOL. Yeah, that name can't become an acronym -- and I am interested to see if that was purposely done that way (not by you).









.

 

[AnthonyB]

Fresh out of the mail, Godfather was nothing special (to me). I haven't had it long enough for steeping to produce a miraculous transformation, so I leave that possibility open and unknown.



I'm not a fan of Patriot. I have both versions, but neither is my cup of tea. Vita Bella, on the other hand, is one of my all-time favorite retail NETs.

Vita Bella was one that I was going to leave out of my order lol

Okay I might give Vita Bella one more try.



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[Dusty_D]

Vita Bella was one that I was going to leave out of my order lol

Okay I might give Vita Bella one more try.


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Setting yourself up for disappointment again.. just sayin'!

 

[AnthonyB]

Small tweak. LOL. Yeah, that name can't become an acronym -- and I am interested to see if that was purposely done that way (not by you).









.

It wasn't. I mentioned WTA to Ken and his reaction was one to suggest he either knows little, or nothing, about Whole Tobacco Alkaloids.


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