I am only going by what their customer service rep told me, which is that the non-aro's have not have not changed in formulation. What has changed, is the description on the faq section, which was to eliminate confusion. I don't know if his understanding of NET corresponds to the definition you provided, or if the flavorings are derived from tobacco or are synthetic. He was quite emphatic, however, that they aren't NET's.
Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux
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I am only going by what their customer service rep told me, which is that the non-aro's have not have not changed in formulation. What has changed, is the description on the faq section, which was to eliminate confusion. I don't know if his understanding of NET corresponds to the definition you provided, or if the flavorings are derived from tobacco or are synthetic. He was quite emphatic, however, that they aren't NET's.
So, I'm not losing my mind then?! They are not NETs. Phew! Now, I can vape them as synthetics without wondering why my tastebuds are not detecting the NET in the juices.
I'll leave it up to you guys to figure out if they should stay on the NET list or not. Perhaps have them as a honorary mention for a solid vendor that used to carry A-List NETs.
I'm very surprised about this. I also had the impression that the Ahl non-aromatics were NETs and not synthetics. I've been vaping them almost exclusively lately.
I have slowed down my NET extractions. My latest ASO extract starts changing taste around 2 ml due to coil gunking, it actually starts tasting more like analog with smokey notes coming in masking the earthier nuances. I did even filter that with 0.2 um syringe filters as the last step of filtering.
Based on my enjoyment of Ahl non-aromatics, I decided to start experimenting with DIY vendor synthetics. I started a new thread if anyone is interested in that direction too.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...timate-tobacco-vape-minimal-coil-gunking.html
Cheers.
Hmm, the only possible explanation I can think of for this is natural sugars present in the tobacco itself?
I'm not sure exactly what the sugar content of your tobacco is or what specific one you're using, but if one can taste the sweetness of a Virginia in a blend or the sweet tones of a Cavendish in an extract, that is definitely getting through.
If we could somehow move away from wicks altogether, there would only be the issue of coil gunking. Granted, it isn't always a huge issue, dependent on the NET (I've had some very dark cigar vapes that were gentle on coils, and lighter, sweeter vapes that were heavy gunkers) it seems to widely vary, though.
I'm sure that somewhere down the line, someone will begin isolating the specific flavor characteristics (can these molecules even be separated?) of various tobaccos and using those to make flavor concentrates. It's not like it isn't possible, but it would likely be cost-prohibitive to conduct the initial research.
It would be a non-net synthetic (if it were synthesized) with the flavor of a NET; a SynthNETic, unless you could somehow actually extract just the flavor but no gunk from the tobacco; making it still NET.
If vaping continues to develop new core technologies at its current rate, seeing a coil that acts as a wick isn't beyond reach, it's just going to look bizarre at first and go through several iterations before perfection (think a porous coil of some sort, don't know whether juice immersion or some kind of "net" around the outside to draw the juice in would be necessary, but along those lines).
Indeed. I recommend NETCom's Pumpkin Pie mixed with any Latakia-based blend.
Levels out the spice, with spice. I like it.
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Imagine my confusion. I got these off of Maz thinking that I would finally get a chance to try some of Ahlusion's legendary non gunky NETs. Then I start vaping them and they scream non-NET.
Following that came the back and forth between Bill and Jerms, TINO, small font tobacco, NET Hybrid etc etc until the discovery this morning of it being a non-NET.
The juices themselves are fine for being non-NETs. I'm just glad that we've figured out that they are non-NETs so as not to lead anyone else astray going forward.
Hmm, the only possible explanation I can think of for this is natural sugars present in the tobacco itself?
I'm not sure exactly what the sugar content of your tobacco is or what specific one you're using, but if one can taste the sweetness of a Virginia in a blend or the sweet tones of a Cavendish in an extract, that is definitely getting through.
If we could somehow move away from wicks altogether, there would only be the issue of coil gunking. Granted, it isn't always a huge issue, dependent on the NET (I've had some very dark cigar vapes that were gentle on coils, and lighter, sweeter vapes that were heavy gunkers) it seems to widely vary, though.
I'm sure that somewhere down the line, someone will begin isolating the specific flavor characteristics (can these molecules even be separated?) of various tobaccos and using those to make flavor concentrates. It's not like it isn't possible, but it would likely be cost-prohibitive to conduct the initial research.
It would be a non-net synthetic (if it were synthesized) with the flavor of a NET; a SynthNETic, unless you could somehow actually extract just the flavor but no gunk from the tobacco; making it still NET.
If vaping continues to develop new core technologies at its current rate, seeing a coil that acts as a wick isn't beyond reach, it's just going to look bizarre at first and go through several iterations before perfection (think a porous coil of some sort, don't know whether juice immersion or some kind of "net" around the outside to draw the juice in would be necessary, but along those lines).
Indeed. I recommend NETCom's Pumpkin Pie mixed with any Latakia-based blend.
Levels out the spice, with spice. I like it.
Thanks. I'm using American Spirits Organic. It's not sweet at all but I think they are dissolved plant material in the extract and those could be causing the gunking.
What you described about a "porous coil" might be realized. I took a gamble and signed up for the induction vaporizer Evoke. It's supposed have no wicks, a only porous coil heated by induction with no electrical contacts. We'll see if they'll be able to put a good product out.
Imagine my confusion. I got these off of Maz thinking that I would finally get a chance to try some of Ahlusion's legendary non gunky NETs. Then I start vaping them and they scream non-NET.
Following that came the back and forth between Bill and Jerms, TINO, small font tobacco, NET Hybrid etc etc until the discovery this morning of it being a non-NET.
The juices themselves are fine for being non-NETs. I'm just glad that we've figured out that they are non-NETs so as not to lead anyone else astray going forward.
I guess this explains why the tobacco flavors are so much in the background in these. If you let them steep a month or so (at least the Sahara Blend) , it does develop mild tobacco nuances but still not very strong. Very enjoyable though mixed with some Shipwreck.
Imagine my confusion. I got these off of Maz thinking that I would finally get a chance to try some of Ahlusion's legendary non gunky NETs. Then I start vaping them and they scream non-NET.
Following that came the back and forth between Bill and Jerms, TINO, small font tobacco, NET Hybrid etc etc until the discovery this morning of it being a non-NET.
The juices themselves are fine for being non-NETs. I'm just glad that we've figured out that they are non-NETs so as not to lead anyone else astray going forward.
I think Papa B is on to something re. their legal team. Their rep was quite keen to distance themselves from NET's. Otherwise without a change in formulation, which he claimed has not occurred, this is quite a drastic change in description imo :
A couple of weeks ago :
Non Aromatic Blends: These also contain extracts of additive free natural or certified organic tobacco, but may also contain commercially available tobacco flavoring.
And currently :
Non Aromatic Blends: As the name implies, these do not contain any tobacco extracts, just tobacco flavoring.
Which based on the distinction Cherry made between extracts and flavoring, they technically could be derived from tobacco !?
Chinook,
I'm amazed that you were able to filter solvent from macerated ASO through a 0.2 micron syringe filter. Last year, I bought a pack of 25mm diameter 0.22 micron syringe filter disks, but I couldn't get a drop of my extract solvent to go through, no matter how much force I applied. Pure water went throughs new filter disk, but all my extracts would clog the filter before a single drop emerged. I ended up tossing the whole bag of filters into the trash. No big deal, since I bought them on eBay and didn't spend much ($14 for 20 of them), but that was the end of my experiment with syringe filtering.
Does that mean that my macerations are more full of organic material than yours? I don't know. All I know is that sub-micron syringe filters were a complete fail for me. Not that I doubt what you wrote, but something is fundamentally different between your experience and mine.
Yes.
This is what I think is happening too. Wlad's experience in the food industry and familiarity with the FDA has always kept him a few steps ahead of other juice makers. I'm certain that the rewording is a CYA thing. I do wonder what the future holds for other NET vendors.
So wait, a change they claimed didnt happen, or false advertising in the past??
Either way, not gonna deal with them.. Dont like when stuff like this happens and we are left guessing about whether we got scammed.
Bill,
I did the 0.2 filtering as the last step of filtering. These extracts were already filtered 4 times through a thick patch of boiled cotton placed at the bottom of a 30 ml syringe. I used fresh cotton balls at each step. There wasn't much difference in the color of the cotton balls between the 3rd and 4th steps.
By the way, the cotton filtering took a LOT of pressure. I think the compressed thickness of the cotton ended up being close to 0.25"! And the plunger tip broke at the end!
Then I passed the extract through the 0.2 um disk filters. The output was about one drop per second with steady pressure but not as much as hand bursting. That output rate was almost similar to pure PG. I'd estimate that the PG flow was maybe 25% faster than the one with NET but not much....
My resulting extract is very clean tasting until about 1.5 ml of vaping than smokiness kicks in. I was hoping at least 3ml of clean vaping. I think I also used too much extract in the final juice....I could have cut it by 25-30% which have given me more clean vaping milage.
I agree. This whole kerfuffle with Ahlusion and what kind of tobacco flavorings they used/are using/will use in their retail juice lines has me scratching my head, not so much in disbelief, but with confusion that is quite aggravating. I don't know what to make of any of it, including the announcement that Ahlusion will be outsourcing production of their juices.
I find particularly curious the wording of Ahlusion's new (updated?) description of their Non Aromatic Blends: "As the name implies, these do not contain any tobacco extracts, just tobacco flavoring." How does the name (Non Aromatic Blends) imply anything about the flavorings used??? Sorry, Ahlusion, that's bogus. Somebody's playing fast and loose here.
Yes.
This is what I think is happening too. Wlad's experience in the food industry and familiarity with the FDA has always kept him a few steps ahead of other juice makers. I'm certain that the rewording is a CYA thing. I do wonder what the future holds for other NET vendors.
I'd take it as a hint that NETs will get most likely to be banned. Why would Ahlusion axe them unless they got some insider info. Or maybe the kind of analysis and future "up to code" production facilities will be cost prohibiteve. Or perhaps a NET related law suit is brewing somewhere....
All you home extractors, I need name and contact info, please..for future reference ofcourse!
Thanks. That makes sense.
I've never macerated any tobacco with 100% PG as the solvent. All my macerations have used varying ratios of PG/VG, so that extra thickness in viscosity from the VG was probably a factor in causing the syringe filters to clog up tight from the get-go.
Indeed, I'd imagine VG might be a culprit in filtering through the 0.2 um filters. Even pure VG requires decent finger pressure.
All you home extractors, I need name and contact info, please..for future reference ofcourse!
Of course my friend any time. For you I'll give you my special price: $9.99 per ml -- and $19.99 handling per order (shipping extra)
Of course my friend any time. For you I'll give you my special price: $9.99 per ml -- and $19.99 handling per order (shipping extra)
For that price you better be hand-delivering it dressed up in a Playboy bunny outfit buddy!! 
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