Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[marc42]

If you're not careful though you can muddy everything up. It tastes like "barnyard" soup and grass. Not a pleasant combination. Everything about a cigar is a matter of balance, patience, and aging. A good piece of tobacco for a ciga is already at least a year old before it is used, most of the time. When dealing with cigars patience is the best virtue. Everything is a game of time and artistry. Even the way you smoke a stick is a precise thing. You never puff it like a cigarette, one puff every 45 - 60 seconds is the prefered pace. Trying to rush it when you get down to the extraction stage is pretty counter productive and goes against the basic nature of the cigar.

I think that is one of the biggest problems that net extractors run in to with cigars. They ignore the nature of the cigar experience. From birth to nub, cigars are a game of time and artistry. Try letting the next one rest in a "tupperdor" for about three weeks with a 69% Boveda pack and then chop it up for processing. If you're doing something like a Carlos Torano try giving it six weeks. As the cigar relaxes and reaches balance you will notice the grass and other things disappear. The "blender's intent" will shine through and you may just end up with something better than you expected.

The zen art of cigars.
My young extraction is sweet tasting , but there is some magic in there, almost a subliminal thing going on.
Tried a bit of VG on all my extractions to give the vape a bit of body, but VG is sweet too.
funny thing i dont really taste sweet with bakery custards etc friends rave about sweetness, only with these extracts have actually tasted real sweetness
must the natural sugers v artificial.
I also notice the sweetness builds as i vape.

 

[67Tele]

(snip)
RE: VB-

When I enjoyed Vita Bella, it was when I ordered 10ml bottles. The first bottle was amazing. I could vape it and the entire room would smell great. Same with the second. So, when I placed an order for a 30ml bottle and found it to be considerably disappointing compared to the smaller 10ml bottles I had previously received.
I ordered again- some time later, and after I'd been vaping different liquids in the meanwhile. 30ml bottle again, thinking maybe I just didn't use it properly. Same result.

Now.....this was all in the EVODs and such with the wicks being the way they are, I last vaped VB on readyxwick using a VAMO v5 in an EVOD.

Unfortunately, this is where my relationship with VB ended.

I have not, however, given it a shot in the Magma.

...and I probably won't have to, considering my desire to start home-brewing tobacco tea extracts.
(snip)

Hey All
I've been dripping Patriot all day in the Marquis. After reading this I thought to try the VB I got maybe six weeks ago. This is my first taste of VB so, I'm not knowing what to expect. I changed the wick in the dripper and started on the 30 ml bottle. To me, with a short time trying, it's coming across as a milder, bit sweeter version of Patriot, to use as a comparison.

What flavor(s) have y'all gotten from VB and if those changed with a bigger bottle, how so?

Thanks

 

[Jerms]

Hey All
I've been dripping Patriot all day in the Marquis. After reading this I thought to try the VB I got maybe six weeks ago. This is my first taste of VB so, I'm not knowing what to expect. I changed the wick in the dripper and started on the 30 ml bottle. To me, with a short time trying, it's coming across as a milder, bit sweeter version of Patriot, to use as a comparison.

What flavor(s) have y'all gotten from VB and if those changed with a bigger bottle, how so?

Thanks

Vita has always tastes much different than Patriot to me. GeJ isn't always 100% consistent batch to batch though. Vita is very hard to describe, but it's sort of a tobacco with a vanilla custard vibe. As it ages it loses the custard feel. I've had small and big bottles that tasted the same.

 

[UnclePsyko]

Vita has always tastes much different than Patriot to me. GeJ isn't always 100% consistent batch to batch though. Vita is very hard to describe, but it's sort of a tobacco with a vanilla custard vibe. As it ages it loses the custard feel. I've had small and big bottles that tasted the same.

Boy you nailed that description!
One day it's a custard-y vape... the one I have that's only about 4 weeks old has an almost Flan-ish thing. It's not bad, but very unexpected!

 

[UnclePsyko]

I broke into my RBFS that came yesterday... This stuff is seriously tasty! I cannot stop dripping the Porch Rocker. The aroma is amazing!
I definitely get the Latakia and Perique, I'm a bit confused on whether it's the Burley or Virginia that's taking a dominant role, but I'm not complaining, no sir!
It's much smoother than I was expecting as well... rounded and mild sweetness with just enough of a smoky hit! One of my current favorites at this point.
I dripped some of the St. Parish... The room note again is fantastic but I think it might be losing something in the Tobh RDA when it comes to the flavor.
I'm gonna wait until I empty the Reo and give it it's true test in there. I can tell there's some layers and subtle notes that want to come out and I feel the Reo is a better indicator for those quiet notes.
I think I'm gonna wait on the C-Caramel. Again, it didn't seem to carry too well in the Tobh.
I also received My Vape Juice yesterday... they threw in an additional bottle of Mavorodaphne Pipe, nice bonus!
So... they recommend 7-10 day steep, fine... Perhaps I should wait out for a few days before test-tasting? It's not like I have a shortage of NETs laying around!

 

[rdsok]

Diane with MVJ is having another sale...

 

[Brobdingnagian]

So, I was checking my P&T order; browsed around a bit.... then saw this:

Hearth & Home Marquee BlackHouse - PipesandCigars.com

Description from the site (let me know if I need to remove this for whatever reason) :

The winning blend from the Chicagoland Pipe Show 2011. We're proud to introduce BlackHouse. This blend is a tribute to a great tobacco of the past. Made for the 2011 contest it was judged to be the closest overall to the dark balkan-type mixture it was designed to emulate. For you Virginia Heads it's loaded along with Kentucky, Balkans, Turkish, and even a smattering of Black Cavendish.

Tobacco: Cavendish, Dark Fired Kentucky, Latakia, Oriental, Perique, Virginia

At least I know what I'm ordering next time. I wish I had noticed this before checking out, though.

That's a blend wild enough to be interesting for me; it will be on the next order. Don't buy it all up on me, k?

EDIT: I completely forgot to add to my last post, that I immensely enjoyed the NETCom Grilled Pineapple. Good balance, good smokiness, light pineapple and what seems like almost a creamy vanilla cav- you can almost pick it out, but not quite; it keeps hiding.

Regarding hybrids, I think that just might be the best one I've tried, to-date.

However, I've also never vaped a pineapple anything or much e-juice that didn't have some name relating to a tobacco/analog type on the bottle. Taste was good, immediately decided I liked it better than Shunji's Delight (sp.) [no offense, Shunji; I still haven't tried that blend's version without the amaretto, so perhaps it is quite different]

Thus, I have learned a few things, lately: fruit flavors either work, or don't; extracting cheap cigars yields better results than expensive ones; pipe tobacco preferences are like pizza toppings, with their numerous combinations; I needed a lot less nicotine base liquid than I thought I needed; steep times might conflict, so I may need to premix unflavored bottles sans extract and then add the appropriate amount back in to the then final product- seems to make sense if you have one but not the other and want to prepare a setup for a batch you don't have ready yet.

I love this thread; there's learning expanding at a greater rate than the thread is growing; that, my friends... is an awesome thing.

While we all may like different types of tobaccos, different vendors; extraction methods; coiling and wicking methods and so on, we all share things that have a common goal- harm reduction; NET tobaccos and information/education on them; which ones we like, and why.

One could quite literally read this thread or search for "best virginia" if they enjoyed a virginia-heavy analog, for example, and then quickly find a vendor or method of attaining/making juice.

...and that's...well, that's what makes this thread (and by relation, this forum) awesome.

Long story short: Learning is awesome. That is all.

 

[Smocian257]

So, I was checking my P&T order; browsed around a bit.... then saw this:

Hearth & Home Marquee BlackHouse - PipesandCigars.com

Description from the site (let me know if I need to remove this for whatever reason) :





At least I know what I'm ordering next time. I wish I had noticed this before checking out, though.

That's a blend wild enough to be interesting for me; it will be on the next order. Don't buy it all up on me, k?

"Crooner" from smokingpipes was a great treat so i know the excited feeling.

Gonna get my hands on one of these sobranie 759 clones and see whats what

 

[67Tele]

Vita has always tastes much different than Patriot to me. GeJ isn't always 100% consistent batch to batch though. Vita is very hard to describe, but it's sort of a tobacco with a vanilla custard vibe. As it ages it loses the custard feel. I've had small and big bottles that tasted the same.

Ok. I was getting a little of the custard thickness in the throat hit after I kicked up the wattage a bit. Maybe that was the sweetness I was tasting. I set it aside to meditate some more. It came across as thin and not fully formed(?).

Boy you nailed that description!
One day it's a custard-y vape... the one I have that's only about 4 weeks old has an almost Flan-ish thing. It's not bad, but very unexpected!

Thanks guys!

 

[Influence]

Let me know what you think when you try it. Chocolate can be really hard to do well. I've had two very good choco-NETs though: Cocoa Blend from Ahl-s now defunct aro line and Admiral's Pipe from RBFS.

Haven't tried the 2 you mentioned, vape this morning about 2ml of Dutch Cocoa. The description of the juice on TPR site is very close to reality. I've discovered the tobacco element in it but it's really very light. I'm sure that people who never vaped virginia nets, would not even think about any existence of tobacco in this liquid.
But if you like chocolate juices this is made for you. Great taste of very high chocolate quality (not artificial at all), well balanced and little sweetened. Certainly the best chocolate flavor tasted since now. Good vapor, medium hit at 12mg

 

[Tagi]

TPR Dutch Cocoa Tobacco very good juice. I find its more a cocoa taste then chocolate. run it warm and its like a cup of hot cocoa with a tobacco undertones. Their Candied Cavendish is one I am currently stuck on.

 

[UnclePsyko]

*Warning*... yet another NETcom Fanboi post...
Clay's Hot Chocolate Tobacco is actually pretty good.
When it was fresh (last winter) it had that "Swiss-Miss" instant hot cocoa flavor, no marshmallow for you fans, with an even tobacco flavor.
It wasn't anything that I would fill a tank with, but it was fun in a dripper.
The cocoa impact has diminished significantly over time. Now, there is just a *hint* of cocoa.
I thought it was a much better chocolate/cocoa flavor than any of the (limited) chocolate flavored juices I've tried. At least it was familiar!

 

[67Tele]

Speaking of sweet...

I have MVJ's Sutliff Private Stock Spinnaker Pipe Tobacco in the Lemo Drop now 1.1 ohm Kanthal w/rayon.) It was a re-order after digging the small bottle. It's very sweet and kind of ethereal. The tobacco flavor is very underplayed with the natural sweetness taking over a bit. Possibly, as has been mentioned, the tobacco will come forward with age.

From their description:
From CigarsInternational:"What do sail boats and pipe tobacco have in common? Probably nothing, but it didn’t stop the release of Sutliff Private Stock Spinnaker. Comprised of a dashing mix of sweet Burley and dark Black Cavendish, this mild-medium blend is cross cut for a smooth, cool burn. "

Strength: 2 - Mild-Medium
Tobacco: Burley, Cavendish
Style: Aromatic

It's very cool at 21 watts. And light without a thick cloudy hit.

Very good. Due to the sweetness probably not something for all day but, it's a nice light break.

 

[billherbst]

Here are my promised mini-reviews of the retail macerated NET liquids I ordered from SmugJuice back on December 29th.

After they arrived, I took off the caps for about five hours, then replaced the caps and let them steep for 10 more days before sampling them today. Specs are 12mg nic in an unspecified base blend that feels like 50/50. Color of all the juices is a medium caramel, not unusual for many macerated NETs. To test them, I dripped each into a 1.5 ohm Joyetech 510LR atomizer powered by a Vision Spinner clone set to 4.1 volts (for 11 watts).

Smuggler’s Fire
Description from SmugJuice product page: “Our second offering in the Smuggler's line. Here you will find graham cracker, chocolate and toasted marshmallow melded with a smooth tobacco flavor.”

OK, so Smuggler’s Fire is a hybrid dessert NET, sort of like smores with tobacco. Some NET aficionados prefer straight tobaccos over hybrids. I’ve come to the opposite point of view---I actually prefer aromatics and hybrids to straight tobaccos. I find Smuggler’s Fire an easy, pleasurable vape. Not superb, because the tobacco is hidden beneath the chocolate and toasted marshmallow. However, those two candy flavors are well-matched here. I’ll have to revisit this one some months down the road to see if the tobacco steps forward with long-term steeping, but even now it’s my favorite of the five SmugJuice NETs I ordered.

Branded
Description from SmugJuice product page: “Branded is a rugged American blend. The combination of Virginia flue cured and aged burley tobaccos give you a smooth robust flavor.”

Branded is a middle-of-the-road, cigarette-style NET. Think Marlboro Lights. And there’s not a thing wrong with it as an NET. Problem is, there’s not a whole lot right with it, either. It’s slightly nondescript and lacking in character. Vapeable, but not special.

Cuban Perfecto
Description from SmugJuice product page: “You used to have to travel south of the border to taste the flavor of a real Cuban cigar. Now you can get that luxurious taste right here at home with our Cuban Perfecto. The extract is made from 100% Cuban seed tobacco leaves that are aged to perfection."

Macerated NETs made from cigars are tricky. I know, because I’ve extracted 11 cigars myself. Too often, they end up conveying the aura of cigar-ness without even approaching the full-on whomp of a good cigar. With SmugJuice Cuban Perfecto, it’s even worse---even the aura of cigar-ness is missing. This is one of two juices I bought in this order that I didn’t like at all (the other being RY4 Extra). Who at SmugJuice thought that this extraction was ready for prime time and/or retail sale? Had they never smoked a cigar or vaped a good cigar NET? “Perfection”? Hardly. More like meh to me.

Below is a link to the lengthier review of SmugJuice RY4 and RY4 Extra I posted on The Really Big RY4 thread:

Smugjuice RY4 and RY4 Extra, reviewed on The Really Big RY4 Roundup thread, post #5618

All in all, in my opinion SmugJuice is nowhere near an A-List retail NET vendor. One juice out of the five I bought was good (RY4 Extra), another was OK (Smuggler’s Fire), with a third only fair (Branded), while the last two were barely acceptable (RY4 and Cuban Perfecto). If these were home-extracted NETs made by someone just starting out, I’d give encouragement and say to keep at it. But SmugJuice is a retail vendor selling NET liquids as a business, so I’m less inclined to be forgiving.

Between B-List and C-List, it’s a toss-up. I could make a case for either group, but I don’t really care enough to spend the time and energy necessary to do so.

 

[billherbst]

Oops. I forgot one. The bottle was hiding from me on my vaping worktable.

The Duke
Description from the SmugJuice product page: "Here we have taken 8 different naturally extracted tobaccos and blended them in specific proportions to give a very unique flavor. You will find immense depth and flavor in this e-liquid. This flavor is a must for all tobacco vape lovers."

Muddled. Almost flavorless. Meh.

That settles it for me: SmugJuice is a C-List NET vendor.

 

[Smocian257]

Here are my promised mini-reviews of the retail macerated NET liquids I ordered from SmugJuice back on December 29th.

After they arrived, I took off the caps for about five hours, then replaced the caps and let them steep for 10 more days before sampling them today. Specs are 12mg nic in an unspecified base blend that feels like 50/50. Color of all the juices is a medium caramel, not unusual for many macerated NETs. To test them, I dripped each into a 1.5 ohm Joyetech 510LR atomizer powered by a Vision Spinner clone set to 4.1 volts (for 11 watts).

Smuggler’s Fire
Description from SmugJuice product page: “Our second offering in the Smuggler's line. Here you will find graham cracker, chocolate and toasted marshmallow melded with a smooth tobacco flavor.”

OK, so Smuggler’s Fire is a hybrid dessert NET, sort of like smores with tobacco. Some NET aficionados prefer straight tobaccos over hybrids. I’ve come to the opposite point of view---I actually prefer aromatics and hybrids to straight tobaccos. I find Smuggler’s Fire an easy, pleasurable vape. Not superb, because the tobacco is hidden beneath the chocolate and toasted marshmallow. However, those two candy flavors are well-matched here. I’ll have to revisit this one some months down the road to see if the tobacco steps forward with long-term steeping, but even now it’s my favorite of the five SmugJuice NETs I ordered.

Branded
Description from SmugJuice product page: “Branded is a rugged American blend. The combination of Virginia flue cured and aged burley tobaccos give you a smooth robust flavor.”

Branded is a middle-of-the-road, cigarette-style NET. Think Marlboro Lights. And there’s not a thing wrong with it as an NET. Problem is, there’s not a whole lot right with it, either. It’s slightly nondescript and lacking in character. Vapeable, but not special.

Cuban Perfecto
Description from SmugJuice product page: “You used to have to travel south of the border to taste the flavor of a real Cuban cigar. Now you can get that luxurious taste right here at home with our Cuban Perfecto. The extract is made from 100% Cuban seed tobacco leaves that are aged to perfection."

Macerated NETs made from cigars are tricky. I know, because I’ve extracted 11 cigars myself. Too often, they end up conveying the aura of cigar-ness without even approaching the full-on whomp of a good cigar. With SmugJuice Cuban Perfecto, it’s even worse---even the aura of cigar-ness is missing. This is one of two juices I bought in this order that I didn’t like at all (the other being RY4 Extra). Who at SmugJuice thought that this extraction was ready for prime time and/or retail sale? Had they never smoked a cigar or vaped a good cigar NET? “Perfection”? Hardly. More like meh to me.

Below is a link to the lengthier review of SmugJuice RY4 and RY4 Extra I posted on The Really Big RY4 thread:

Smugjuice RY4 and RY4 Extra, reviewed on The Really Big RY4 Roundup thread, post #5618

All in all, in my opinion SmugJuice is nowhere near an A-List retail NET vendor. One juice out of the five I bought was good (RY4), another was OK (Smuggler’s Fire), with a third only fair (Branded), while the last two were barely acceptable (RY4 Extra and Cuban Perfecto). If these were home-extracted NETs made by someone just starting out, I’d give encouragement and say to keep at it. But SmugJuice is a retail vendor selling NET liquids as a business, so I’m less inclined to be forgiving.

Between B-List and C-List, it’s a toss-up. I could make a case for either group, but I don’t really care enough to spend the time and energy necessary to do so.

Brings up a question ive been pondering. Where do we draw the line for a hybrid? A touch of trimethyl pyrazine in a burley blend to bring the nuttiness forward? Sure ok

What if its just normal saline 0.09% or citric acid?

I just got a huge bag of samplers , mostly aromatics and some of these you can smell through the bag. I mean , i could add orange flavored syrup to a bag of cavendish before extracting and claim its an "aromatic" with "only casing flavors"

 

[Jerms]

Thanks for the SmugJuice report Bill. You may want to edit your post; it was the RY4 and not RY4 extra that you disliked.

Looks like their straight tobaccos aren't worth looking into, but I may try their hybrids one day. I would order them now if I was buying juice as they have a nice deal going on with choice of five 10ml bottles for 19.99. The have a NET+ custard and, get this, the most unique offering I've seen.. NET with chocolate and............. bacon!

 

[Jerms]

Brings up a question ive been pondering. Where do we draw the line for a hybrid? A touch of trimethyl pyrazine in a burley blend to bring the nuttiness forward? Sure ok

What if its just normal saline 0.09% or citric acid?

I just got a huge bag of samplers , mostly aromatics and some of these you can smell through the bag. I mean , i could add orange flavored syrup to a bag of cavendish before extracting and claim its an "aromatic" with "only casing flavors"

I'd consider a hybrid any NET that has added flavors that significantly alters the flavor profile of the source tobacco. Adding an ingredient to improve the vape such as a touch of ethyl maltol or something to subtly enhance the tobacco I wouldn't consider a hybrid.

 

[billherbst]

Thanks for the SmugJuice report Bill. You may want to edit your post; it was the RY4 and not RY4 extra that you disliked.

Thanks, Jerms. I edited the post. In my dotage, sometimes I can't keep the players straight without a scorecard.

 

[Influence]

I'd consider a hybrid any NET that has added flavors that significantly alters the flavor profile of the source tobacco. Adding an ingredient to improve the vape such as a touch of ethyl maltol or something to subtly enhance the tobacco I wouldn't consider a hybrid.

Would you consider Red Dawn or Classic Caramel from EV as hybrids ? If you haven't tried them, you'll taste the virginia and the burley at about 70%-80%, the remaining is flavoring or casing.