Nearing disaster in New York - please take action NOW to prevent e-cigarette ban.

[Little Girl]

What went on... is that the people that New Yorkers elected to the 'NY House'... voted and UNANIMOULSY passed the first version of 'The Bill' to totally ban ECIGS (to adults AND minors), or ANY part of an ecig (any part thereof). (Right? someone please correct me as needed)

Did you ever find out if this is correct? How can they ban the product itself? The only real control they should have is over what goes into it, and then that control should only be for safety, just like it is for any other product we take into our bodies. If they're actually trying to ban the actual hardware then they're stepping over a line they shouldn't have a right to step over...

 

[DC2]

Did you ever find out if this is correct? How can they ban the product itself? The only real control they should have is over what goes into it, and then that control should only be for safety, just like it is for any other product we take into our bodies. If they're actually trying to ban the actual hardware then they're stepping over a line they shouldn't have a right to step over...

If the electronic cigarette is deemed a drug delivery device, they have the power to ban it.
And that is what we must prevent against.

So everyone PLEASE sign the petition linked in my signature below.

 

[Little Girl]

If the electronic cigarette is deemed a drug delivery device, they have the power to ban it.

That's ridiculous. Do they realize how ridiculous that is? That's like banning syringes because they're drug delivery devices, yet they are used for good purpose by thousands of people (millions, even?) who have diabetes and any number of other conditions which require injections.

So everyone PLEASE sign the petition linked in my signature below.

Will do. My printer is currently broken so I'll be hand-writing out a few copies of that letter and mailing them in since I doubt someone with my user name will get through anybody's spam protection.

You know, I just discovered PVs, but I couldn't feel more strongly about this if I tried. This is the miracle I was waiting for. All those years I said if only someone would make an imitation cigarette that I could use, I know I could quit. Well, they did. And I will not let New York state take away my right to use it. I quite happily add my voice to those who have openly said that they wouldn't hesitate to obtain them illegally if necessary.

I wouldn't have a problem with them if they just wanted to regulate them for quality control purposes. I also wouldn't have a problem with them if they wanted to ban the use of nicotine in them (I know there will be at least a few people who disagree with me on that - sorry!). But to ban them entirely is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Shame on New York.

 

[reno55]

did the mass email!!!! this is out right wrong. as Rosenthal gave her explanation it seemed as if her fellow assemblyman could not read black and white which was right in front of him. note, he clarified, "we are just trying to ban the ecig and not any other products?" response "Yes" would would a minor buy a cessation device as they put it. seems a little backwards huh. maybe the minors are trying to quit a couple of decades earlier than most of us.

 

[Little Girl]

I sent out the mass e-mail today, figuring I'd take a chance that my user name might get past their spam filters. So far I've gotten eight automated replies, and will follow this up with hand-written letters and phone calls.

 

[LoganTheDragon]

Signed the petition, and completely agree!
I would like to know how my electronic cigarette is a more dangerous drug device than a syringe or a bleeping DOLLAR BILL. Are they seriously saying I can get empty SYRINGES, but I can't buy an E-CIG if I want to?!?!

I am in Texas, and just KNOW that if there is a precedent set MY state will jump on the "crackdown" bandwagon!

Could someone help me get the banner for the petition into my signature?

 

[yoyoma_mda]

these people ....ing disgust me, rosenthal and titone should burn in hell for spewing out so many lies in less than 5 minutes

 

[DJ Quick]

That's ridiculous. Do they realize how ridiculous that is? That's like banning syringes because they're drug delivery devices, yet they are used for good purpose by thousands of people (millions, even?) who have diabetes and any number of other conditions which require injections.


But here's the problem we're running into, they have a tax on syringes; they don't have a tax on e-cigs which is ultimately why they are trying to ban them. See, our government only cares about MONEY & POWER, plain and simple. They wanna ban e-cigs because the FDA can't put a tax on it, and since the tobacco companies give millions of dollars to the government, they feel they will lose out on money and our government has to have their finger on everything so since they can't tax it, they try to ban it; regardless if it's healthier for us.

It's just like the going green/saving the environment crap they've been pushing for the past few years. Do you think they REALLY give a sh** about saving the environment? Absolutely not; otherwise they would have been mass producing the electric/hybrid cars back in the early 80's when Honda first developed it. But since gas and oil is a majority of our resources, there's no way they would've let that happen otherwise the government would've lost out on billions of dollars from the oil and gas companies.

Not to be negative, just my 2 cents on how I feel about our government.

 

[jfdpl686]

Amen brother! You're right on the money!
And you should see the anti-smoking advertisements on TV in NY. Per law, they have to use some of that money in ads; so I'm sure, those ads are very simple, easy to do, but I bet they paid millions for the agency, marketing and strategy.... If you call the hotline, you may get lucky, and "if available" and if you qualify... they can give you for free some patches... Great.

 

[Little Girl]

Signed the petition, and completely agree!
I would like to know how my electronic cigarette is a more dangerous drug device than a syringe or a bleeping DOLLAR BILL.

I love it! The dollar bill will be added to the multiple letters I'm working on hand writing. Not only that, but now that you've gotten me started, how about spoons? Money and spoons are handed to children the world over every single day, and if they're going to ban drug delivery devices, they'll have to be consistent and ban those as well.

these people ....ing disgust me, rosenthal and titone should burn in hell for spewing out so many lies in less than 5 minutes

I think the timer's ticking on some careers right now.

They wanna ban e-cigs because the FDA can't put a tax on it, and since the tobacco companies give millions of dollars to the government, they feel they will lose out on money and our government has to have their finger on everything so since they can't tax it, they try to ban it; regardless if it's healthier for us.

Why can't they tax them? Are they aware that the dollars we're currently spending at vendors that pay taxes to the state will be spent, instead, on a black market that ultimately will be taxed by other states or countries, since that's where the supplies will be from? If anything, this move will cause them to lose more money than if they left things as they are or gouged us with some ridiculously high tax like the one they currently have on analogs. The irony of the lack of logic behind something like this from people who are supposed to be our "educated" leaders is staggering.

I watched the Legislator's Educational Video on Electronic Cigarettes from the president of the National Vaper's Club yesterday and absolutely loved it. She put together a thoroughly informative, well thought out presentation that needs to get into the hands of every person who claims the power to ban PVs. Sorry, I'm still not allowed to post links - it's on the VapeTube site.

Edit (I can post links now!): http://www.vapetube.com/video/519/Legislator-Educational-Video-on-electronic-cigarettes

She points out that the steam is the same steam they use in fog machines on Broadway, has been studied for 70 years, and is classified by the FDA as safe for human consumption! What I can't wrap my brain around is how the same agency that did that classification can possibly be the cause of the obvious hysteria behind this current attempt.

She then goes on to point out that the trace level of carcinogens found in the FDA's preliminary study of e-cigs is much lower than you might find in a liter of tap water in your state, and also lower than what you find in a day's use of the nicotine patch and nicotine gum, and that there is a higher level of carcinogens in two slices of cheese or a glass of beer than there is in an entire day's use of the electronic cigarette!

The best part of all is that she offers supporting documentation (and even live assistance) for everything she says in that video.

I'm a Mommy who raised two children. I gave them both tap water and cheese 8-o and nobody tried to ban me from doing that. I guess what I'm getting at here is that if the government feels the need to step in and ban or regulate something, shouldn't it be consistent in doing so? I can understand banning the use of pesticides that are known to cause harm, or regulating the quantity that can be used (if there's a level of use that's known to not cause harm), but to attempt to ban something that is less harmful than substances which are provided to all citizens of the entire country with the state's blessing is beyond me.

 

[LoganTheDragon]

I watched the Legislator's Educational Video on Electronic Cigarettes from the president of the National Vaper's Club yesterday and absolutely loved it. She put together a thoroughly informative, well thought out presentation that needs to get into the hands of every person who claims the power to ban PVs. Sorry, I'm still not allowed to post links - it's on the VapeTube site.

She points out that the steam is the same steam they use in fog machines on Broadway, has been studied for 70 years, and is classified by the FDA as safe for human consumption! What I can't wrap my brain around is how the same agency that did that classification can possibly be the cause of the obvious hysteria behind this current attempt.

She then goes on to point out that the trace level of carcinogens found in the FDA's preliminary study of e-cigs is much lower than you might find in a liter of tap water in your state, and also lower than what you find in a day's use of the nicotine patch and nicotine gum, and that there is a higher level of carcinogens in two slices of cheese or a glass of beer than there is in an entire day's use of the electronic cigarette!

The best part of all is that she offers supporting documentation (and even live assistance) for everything she says in that video.

I'm a Mommy who raised two children. I gave them both tap water and cheese 8-o and nobody tried to ban me from doing that. I guess what I'm getting at here is that if the government feels the need to step in and ban or regulate something, shouldn't it be consistent in doing so? I can understand banning the use of pesticides that are known to cause harm, or regulating the quantity that can be used (if there's a level of use that's known to not cause harm), but to attempt to ban something that is less harmful than substances which are provided to all citizens of the entire country with the state's blessing is beyond me.

http://www.vapetube.com/video/500/Legislator-Education-Packet-Video



absolutely fantabulous information THANK YOU for pointing this out!

 

[DJ Quick]

Why can't they tax them? Are they aware that the dollars we're currently spending at vendors that pay taxes to the state will be spent, instead, on a black market that ultimately will be taxed by other states or countries, since that's where the supplies will be from? If anything, this move will cause them to lose more money than if they left things as they are or gouged us with some ridiculously high tax like the one they currently have on analogs. The irony of the lack of logic behind something like this from people who are supposed to be our "educated" leaders is staggering.

Believe me, they're aware of it. Let me make this real simple to understand. The tobacco companies donate millions of dollars to the government officials, politicians, etc... from all the money they receive in sales from cigarettes each year ok. Well, now that electronic cigarettes are mainstream and deemed healthier for you, a lot of people who smoke cigarettes are jumping on that bandwagon and switching to e-cigs. What that means, is the tobacco companies are losing a lot of money from people who switched to e-cigs. So the more money they lose, the less money they donate to the government. So if the government and the politicians are losing out from donations from companies, they find the source of the problem and try to stop it. You have to understand that these huge companies like the oil companies, tobacco companies, petroleum companies are like lobbyists. Did you ever by chance go to a restaurant in your neighborhood, order food occasionally from there because the food is so-so, or okay, but not great food; but you happen to notice that the restaurant is ALWAYS packed inside with usually the same people? Well, that's because that restaurant owner donates money to his/her alderman, or mayor, or governor's campaign, and in return, their politician or group they donate to, guarantees them that their business will stay afloat. It's really unethical and sick if you think about it; but that is the truth!! This is how businesses survive; they donate money to their political party and in return their political party promotes the business.

See, we as "normal working class" people know what's really going on. We all know that our government is up to no good and doing unethical/unlawful things, just to put an extra dollar in their pocket. And to be honest, I have the perfect solution; especially since I live in the most corrupt state in the U.S. and in the suburb of the most corrupt city which is Chicago. My plan is; you take all these politicians salaries who are making an astronomical amount of money just to ...... things up even more, and cut it by 25-35%. This way, you will save millions of dollars on salary cuts (where actual salary cuts should be made, not from regular working class people like us), and you take that money and use it to get out of the deficit we're "supposedly" in. But I guarantee you, all these politicians are gonna ..... about "damn, now I can't buy my wife the Mercedes she wants"; but unfortunately that's not gonna happen because we all know that would be "too logical".

Hope this helps

 

[LoganTheDragon]

I believe THIS is the link that Little Girl was referring to:
http://www.vapetube.com/video/519/Le...nic-cigarettes


Thanks again for pointing that out! =)

 

[DC2]

Hope this helps

I think Big Pharma has more to do with our troubles than Big Tobacco.

The FDA gets no money from Big Tobacco.
But they get lots of money from Big Pharma for the drug approval process.

Big Pharma gets lots of money in quit smoking methods that don't work.
People buy them over and over and over and they still fail.
That is called a gravy train.

So the FDA is following the desires of Big Pharma to keep electronic cigarettes away.
Competition is bad, and a far better competition that actually works is VERY bad.

 

[D103]

I totally agree DC2. I also would like to know what Big Tobacco's role/involvement has been in so many other countries outright banning this technology based on little if any compelling evidence of harm or even potential harm. That has got to be about the money and not legitimate concern for health and I would love to know to what extent Big Tobacco interjected itself in those decisions.

 

[Little Girl]

absolutely fantabulous information THANK YOU for pointing this out!

You're welcome! That one was new to me as well, and another good video to add to the arsenal of information to counter the misinformation.

I believe THIS is the link that Little Girl was referring to:

Yes, that's the one! Isn't it absolutely brilliant?! Spikey gives a ton of information in under nine minutes, with all of it easily verified. I applaud her.

Believe me, they're aware of it. Let me make this real simple to understand.

I think Big Pharma has more to do with our troubles than Big Tobacco.

I totally agree DC2. I also would like to know what Big Tobacco's role/involvement has been in so many other countries outright banning this technology based on little if any compelling evidence of harm or even potential harm.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a combination of factors. What I totally fail to understand is why people like that would rather bang their heads against walls than simply grasp the concept of one door closing leading to another one opening. If I were a bigwig in some huge tobacco company and something like the electronic cigarette came along and took away a chunk of my business, instead of fighting it, I'd join it!

These companies could manufacture and distribute PVs. It's not exactly an expensive or difficult industry to get into, and they could start small if they like. Even though they're the evil tobacco companies, they've earned some measure of trust from the people who bought their products over the years. Chances are, if Marlboro put out electronic cigarettes and Uncle Tom put out electronic cigarettes, I would imagine more of the general public would be inclined to purchase from Marlboro than Uncle Tom, because he's totally unknown, whereas they've established themselves, and can probably be held accountable more easily than Uncle Tom can.

Also, considering the sheer wealth behind these companies, the kind of advertising they're capable of would probably cause a whirlwind of purchases from people all over the country who haven't even heard of these things yet. They could literally "take the country by storm". I'd even wager that whichever of them does it first will be the envy of the rest for not having thought of it themselves and cornering the market. I could be wrong, but this all seems ever so simple to me, and I can't understand why all of these markets, industries, and agencies have to complicate things when beautiful opportunities (that not only are profitable for them but could do wonders for their image) are staring them right in the face.

 

[DC2]

IWhat I totally fail to understand is why people like that would rather bang their heads against walls than simply grasp the concept of one door closing leading to another one opening. If I were a bigwig in some huge tobacco company and something like the electronic cigarette came along and took away a chunk of my business, instead of fighting it, I'd join it!

I have no doubt they are doing just that.

At this point, they have an opportunity to destroy the competition.
And then step in to the void when ready.

That is sound business principles.

 

[Charley]

If I were a bigwig in some huge tobacco company and something like the electronic cigarette came along and took away a chunk of my business, instead of fighting it, I'd join it!

I feel the same thing and think if a bigwig tobacco company made ecigs, they'd be on the market in no time. My main concern would be if they started adding chemicals into the juice that helped increase the addiction as they do with analogs, though I see some of that changing now that they will be required to list ingredients.

If I'm not mistaken, Winston has already taken everything out of their cigarettes and now consist of tobacco, water, and paper (well some sort of glue too if you consider what they use to seal the paper) but the FDA says they can't advertise it as "safer" than any other brand of cigarette on the market, since it still contains the carcinogens that cause cancer. Fair enough I guess, since I don't plan to smoke analogs again anyway. If ecigs become black market, then that's where I go. After 35 years of a 2 pack a day habit of Camel Lights, these have been a life saver for me and I won't go back!

I also remember reading in the FDA appeal that they mentioned new NRT's that they're working on....there's another conflict since that adds more into Big Pharma's power train.

As was stated earlier by DC2, it all boils down to tax revenue. The government doesn't care about our health, they just want our money, even if that means buying known killers on virtually every street corner, those people trying to quit with the horrid NRT's on the market, and tax them til they die from a tobacco related disease. They'll be replaced by new, young smokers. I talked with my daughter who is of legal smoking age and we talked about teens and ecigs. She even said that teens would look like nerds smoking ecigs with analog smokers, they would be too hard to conceal, with battery charging, too hard to get parts and supplies that are always needed, and it was much easier having an adult friend buy analog cigarettes for them. They can't even stop that trafficing through their attempts and the money used to promote those attempts. The FDCA gave authority to the FDA to regulate tobacco products, basically as they see fit, but did not have the authority to ban them, even though they are a huge killer...money...The underage smoking has been an issue long before ecigs were even thought of. I had my first cigarette at age 8 with a neighbor. The guy in the little store down the road sold them to us when we were about 11. We could buy beer at 16, even wine.

No one cared about what was going on then, and the government still got their money from us kids. Guess I should be entitled to a refund!

There is an entire willingness to educate people from so many in the ecig community and a lot of test results from other countries, where the tests weren't biased. We all want quality control to ensure that we are getting the liquid and carts that contain the right ingredients that help make ecigs a safer alternative, and it would be great, but unless the government can profit from it, they will push to ban it like many other inventions that could really improve our world. The invention of ecigs is pure genuis, and a technology that should be embraced and perfected, not banned imho.

 

[aubergine]

I just check in here periodically for news re NY. No news. No news is good news. I hope.

After last HC session on June 9, this thing is dead until next year, right?

So next Tuesday is the day to watch - I haven't heard that it's on the schedule. Keep eyes on ball...

 

[Little Girl]

I have no doubt they are doing just that.

At this point, they have an opportunity to destroy the competition.
And then step in to the void when ready.

That is sound business principles.

If that's what they're really doing, then they will never get a dime from me when they do step into the void.

I feel the same thing and think if a bigwig tobacco company made ecigs, they'd be on the market in no time. My main concern would be if they started adding chemicals into the juice that helped increase the addiction as they do with analogs, though I see some of that changing now that they will be required to list ingredients.

I agree totally on the chemical additions. That's why I'm glad this forum (and lots of others as well, I'm sure) give instructions for making your own.

If ecigs become black market, then that's where I go. After 35 years of a 2 pack a day habit of Camel Lights, these have been a life saver for me and I won't go back!

I'm with you, and wouldn't hesitate to go to the black market. That's something I'd like to see thoroughly studied and announced. A lot of these anti-ban presentations make a lot of references to what percentage of people would return to analogs if e-cigs were banned, but I haven't seen very many of them mention statistics on how many of us would simply keep using and getting them despite the law. I think this is very important, because if the government (and/or the tobacco industry) want us to return to analogs and they receive validation that we will do so from the very people who are trying to reason with them, then the reasoning not only won't work, but will fuel their position.

I also remember reading in the FDA appeal that they mentioned new NRT's that they're working on....there's another conflict since that adds more into Big Pharma's power train.

As far as I'm concerned, they can keep coming out with those until they're blue in the face, because those will never compare to what the e-cig provides - a real alternative. One of the biggest hindrances to quitting smoking is that we really, really, really enjoy the entire process of smoking - the taste, the feel, the act of smoking itself (with all of the various ways we "play" with them as we use them). If all of those behaviors aren't addressed by an NRT, then failure is pretty much a guarantee right out of the starting gate.

All these years I said over and over that if someone would just come up with something that's just like a cigarette without all of the dangers of smoking, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat. Well, here they are, and I am so grateful to whoever the genius was who thought of them, and to all of the people who have made sure the word about them got out. This is literally a dream come true.

I had my first cigarette at age 8 with a neighbor. The guy in the little store down the road sold them to us when we were about 11. We could buy beer at 16, even wine.

No one cared about what was going on then, and the government still got their money from us kids. Guess I should be entitled to a refund!

I'm sorry to hear that! I wasn't quite so young. I was in basic training in the military, and back then only smokers were given breaks throughout the day. I initially went out pretending to be a smoker, but the tech sergeant in charge pointed out that he'd be watching, and that he could tell the difference between smoke that was inhaled and smoke that was just taken into the mouth, so I learned how to smoke...

We all want quality control to ensure that we are getting the liquid and carts that contain the right ingredients that help make ecigs a safer alternative, and it would be great, but unless the government can profit from it, they will push to ban it like many other inventions that could really improve our world.

They can profit from it, but they'll need to learn to do so legitimately since we already have legitimate sources for these things, and unless they offer at least the same quality of products/service, we will have no reason to patronize their ventures.

The invention of ecigs is pure genuis, and a technology that should be embraced and perfected, not banned imho.

Agreed! And with all the passionate support there is for them, banning them is doomed to failure. Even if they become illegal, they'll still exist, and bans will simply make us all the more determined to keep them.