Need help responding to Ban

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bassn99

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Sep 24, 2009
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Just received news that my company has adopted a tobacco/Free policy in all locatios. The problem with the policy is that it includes e-cigs.......
I'm looking for a good rebutle letter to send our HR department to attempt to state my case. Obviously they are budling nicotine in with tobacco in the policy, although the policy itself does not even mention nicotine.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

yvilla

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I suggest printing out the American Association of Public Health Physicians white paper on e-cigarettes (prepared by Dr. Nitzkin, the chair of its tobacco Control Taskforce), and showing it to them. And specifically point them to this paragraph:

"4. Smoking bans have been universally justified on the basis of the risk posed by environmental tobacco smoke to non-smokers. Most of the air pollution due to cigarettes is due to sidestream smoke – the smoke that curls off the end of the cigarette when no one is puffing on it. E-cigarettes have no sidestream smoke. E-cigarettes also have none of the toxic products of combustion produced by conventional cigarettes. It is therefore unreasonable to ban them on the basis of risk to non-smokers."

http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/ecigcontext.pdf
 

TropicalBob

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The college where my wife works did the same, Bassn. I was very unhappy to have snus and dissolvables in the ban. A student there went to the administration and asked about using his e-cig. It was banned as of that question.

It is very arbitrary. But we can easily see the anti-anything remotely related to tobacco trend (meanwhile, e-cigs are in court trying to get themselves certified as a tobacco product; go figure; we can't have things both ways!).

And, no, approved MEDICINES for treating a medical condition called nicotine addiction will not be banned. E-liquid is not approved. Exactly the opposite, in fact.
 

Scaralouche

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something is going to have to happen where this issue goes to the supreme court. it is wrong for policies to be made like this against a legal behavior. it is not against the law to smoke a cigarette in most municipalities currently. if the company wants to install a policy like that, they need to relocate to one of those places where it is illegal to smoke.

this is an abridgement of freedom that must not stand. only a supreme court ruling on the subject will settle this BS once and for all.

to the OP, you should explain to your office that since e-cigs havent been classified as a tobacco product (or any classification for that matter) their antismoking policy doesnt apply, because A) youre not smoking when you vape, it just looks like it, and B) you arent in possession of tobacco. if they say it is because it has nicotine, then they must also ban tomatoes and all of its derivatives, like ketchup, pizza, etc, as they contain nicotine.

this crap has got to stop already with the smoking bans. we've conceded enough, already. i will not be treated like an underclass morlock vaping/smoking in a dark corner, hoping i dont get caught. im not 13 years old, i dont need to be told what i can and cant do.
 

bassn99

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Sep 24, 2009
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Thanks for all the good input and support. This was a huge blow to me as I am working on month six being TOBACCO FREE. I guess I just need to approach this a way where they won't be able to fire me after 33 years of service over vaping. I too, and tired of these uber liberal people making policy just because they can. I am planning on taking it to the next level and see what happens. Wish me luck.
 

taukimada

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i have some helpful info im posting from a user who had trouble posting it.. thus why i is in quotes...

- Dr. David Baron, Chief of Staff at UCLA Medical Center, recently appeared in a video about the electronic cigarette, Smoke-Stik. Here's what he has to say about their use in public places: "If there is a location where tobacco smoking is banned or illegal, I don't see how the use of an electronic cigarette like Smoke-Stik would qualify for that restriction. It's not tobacco, and therefore, exposure to the vapor that's released when someone either puffs on or exhales a "Smoke-Stik" can't harm another individual. It can't create any of the illnesses or problems that are caused by tobacco smoke. Now, I can't tell you whether or not someone might be irritated by it, or take offense by it, or consider it, in their opinion, to be consistent with a smoking ban, but we're going to have to develop a new language for this because prior to the existence of electronic cigarettes, there was no such thing as non-tobacco "smoke." It's unfortunate that in order for people to understand what we're talking about, we have to refer to it as "smoke," but what we're really saying is it's an alternative way of smoking, not*that it releases smoke. Because really, what smoke is, is the tarry residue and the multiple chemicals that are released from the burning of an organic material. When you burn anything that is a solid substance, smoke is released. Nothing is being burned in the Smoke-Stik. All that's happening is you're heating up a liquid to the point of becoming a vapor. So referring to it as smoke doesn't make sense at all. Therefore,*considering it subject to a smoking ban doesn't really make sense, either. If you're banning the act of putting something in your mouth and puffing, then I suppose you're banning this, but if what you're banning is the production of smoke, and smoke is the way I just defined it, then there's no reason that this should be subject to that kind of restriction." (transcribed from YouTube video)

- From Dr. Michael Siegel, Professor of Social and Behavioral Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health, who also has 20 years of experience in Tobacco Control: "There is no existing evidence that e-cigarettes pose a risk for nonsmokers.*The nicotine exposure from the exhaled vapor produced is likely to be extremely small and there is no reason to think that it poses a danger for nonsmokers. But there is certainly no evidence to suggest that it poses a hazard." (http://www.tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/)

- From Dr. Carl Phillips, Associate Professor at the University of Alberta School of Public Health: "The claim that the trivial amount of vapor would be much of a risk seems ridiculously far-fetched." from the interview with ecigarettedirect: http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/carl

- From Dr. Brad Rodu, Professor of Medicine at the University of Louisville:*"Claiming that e-cigarettes are dangerous for non-smokers is about as credible as claiming that air travel is dangerous for people who never set foot in an airplane." (http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/)
 

DaBrat

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"- From Dr. Brad Rodu, Professor of Medicine at the University of Louisville:*"Claiming that e-cigarettes are dangerous for non-smokers is about as credible as claiming that air travel is dangerous for people who never set foot in an airplane." "

Only if that last smart remark drives me to stick my PV down someone else's throat!:evil:
 

VictoryNotVengence

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so, how far away from the front door would you have to go to smoke a cigg or vape a PV? 20 feet? 100? Or do you mean inside the building they are stoping people from smokeing analogs? Cause thats just crazy, in NJ you havn't been able to do that for years so whats the big deal? Unless your company says no smoking anywhere on the property and their property is an emense vast area I don't understand the problem. They probably just want you to go outside maybe 20 feet from the building.
 

imawitch

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Thanks for all the good input and support. This was a huge blow to me as I am working on month six being TOBACCO FREE. I guess I just need to approach this a way where they won't be able to fire me after 33 years of service over vaping. I too, and tired of these uber liberal people making policy just because they can. I am planning on taking it to the next level and see what happens. Wish me luck.


chanting good thoughts for you! good luck
 

bassn99

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Sep 24, 2009
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Their Tobacco Free Policy is on all property. And Yes some of thier properties are massive, so yes it is a big deal. Depeding on where you may be working you could have to walk quite a ways. Also, the policy states you cannot have the tobacco on their property. So that also means you can not even have it in your vehicle.
So again yes it is a very big deal cripledbazooka.
 

VictoryNotVengence

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Their Tobacco Free Policy is on all property. And Yes some of thier properties are massive, so yes it is a big deal. Depeding on where you may be working you could have to walk quite a ways. Also, the policy states you cannot have the tobacco on their property. So that also means you can not even have it in your vehicle.
So again yes it is a very big deal cripledbazooka.


oh.

its just that alot of times posts like this are "ew i hafta go outside with the smokers" like theres a moat of analog smokers around the perimeter of the whole building.

what does your company do? will they seroisly search your car for tobacco on the way in?
 

cptr13

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Nov 10, 2009
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Smoking, tobacco, etc, doesn't fall under a protected class (race, religion, creed, etc) and can legally be banned by an employer. What's more, it makes perfect business sense as healthcare costs are high and instituting this policy will literally save them money and have healthier (though some disgruntled) employees.

Do not even try to fight that battle, you can't win it.

however, I do think it's an opportunity to come out on top by being able to show your e-cig, take in those studies, arm yourself to the teeth and sell them on e-cigs. If you are allowed to continue to smoke those, and they are willing to let you, it may encourage other smokers there to go the e-cig route.

IF you try to fight that battle head on though, you'll lose.
 

bassn99

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Sep 24, 2009
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Louisiana
Yea, I work for a very large Insurace Company with way too much power to fight head on. All I want to do is make someone do a little more research on our vaping devices prior to just following the herd. I'm sure I will get shot down in the long run.
As for them searching vehicles, they have all the rights when you are on their property. I can't see this being a good thing for the hard core smokers in the long run. I'm sure someone down the road will get fired to set an example. Just don't want it to be me......
After 33 years with the company I have way too much to lose.
 

Brewster 59

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Oct 22, 2009
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Well this is getting crazy. More and more companies pulling this crap. We as vapers should join with smokers and boycott all companies that engage in these kind of nazi rules. If we as nic users dont find a way to hit these companies in the pocketbook more and more will do this imo. For the Op this is a difficult situation, in these times of economic downturn it may not be real wise to try to go head on with these clowns as they may terminate you. If it was me I think I would either use nicorette or get some discrete snus and put it in a altoids box.
 
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