Need serious help breaking analog mental cycle ?

[Jorge22]

Really sorry to hear you have fibromyalgia...

Now, really, cigarettes probably calm you because they have a few substances that act as antidepressants, which is not exactly the case with nicotine. Hmm... You have bronchitis too. I'd say the analogs aren't the best thing for you - or anyone for that matter. Have you thought of mentioning to your doctor that maybe tranquilizers or antidepressants might be better for you than not taking them and smoking?

EDIT: I'm very stressed up myself even though I've been taking Myrtazapine for several months now. And sometimes I just have to add a Victan or something to it. But I don't think there's any cure for my problems (I've also had functional dyspepsia almost all of my life) because it must be the lymbic system messing up with my wise neocortex or something - I'd have to be born again, a different person this time. I mean, I could become a multibillionaire and I'm sure I'd still feel very stressed at times. Anyway, I don't really remember smoking ever really acting as a tranquilizer for me but, well, it's been more than five years already and my memory may not be what it used to be like anymore.

Good luck.

 

[Arriss]

Hi friends, would like to thank everyone for feedback/support. I ordered WTA on Wednesday from MMWTA, Andrew is awesome !!! Called me to discuss my needs, made some recommendations, answered all my concerns. Thursday I receive my shipping confirmation, believed Andrew made a mistake, so I called him back, he tell's me my order will arrive next day (Friday), I thinkin huh? I select standard shipping. Andrew shipped overnight. Thanked him several times.

In addition to my order, he sent me samples to try, I was nervous to try, but figured never know till I try.

Flavor is fantastic !!!! Best vendor juice I have ever vaped to date. Similar to smoking a flavored analog, I have no idea the mix, but I can taste hint of strawberry, hint of tobacco. No coughing, no body tingling ! I took 4 draws, at first I'm thinkin WTA doesn't work, approx 2-3 minutes later, I felt calm/relaxed, satisfied, even more so then analogs. I had no desire for an analog afterwards, difficult to explain. I toss the remaining analogs into trash at nearby store, filling up gas. In the past 8 hours, no analogs and vaped twice 3x draw. No chain vaping, as I did before, till my tank got super hot !!!! Wow ! WTA is amazing !!!! Certainly going to try other flavors from MMWTA. I highly recommend to those, struggling to kick the analog habit. I can honestly say, WTA is the missing link I missed in vape.

 

[Arriss]

Really sorry to hear you have fibromyalgia...

Now, really, cigarettes probably calm you because they have a few substances that act as antidepressants, which is not exactly the case with nicotine. Hmm... You have bronchitis too. I'd say the analogs aren't the best thing for you - or anyone for that matter. Have you thought of mentioning to your doctor that maybe tranquilizers or antidepressants might be better for you than not taking them and smoking?

EDIT: I'm very stressed up myself even though I've been taking Myrtazapine for several months now. And sometimes I just have to add a Victan or something to it. But I don't think there's any cure for my problems (I've also had functional dyspepsia almost all of my life) because it must be the lymbic system messing up with my wise neocortex or something - I'd have to be born again, a different person this time. I mean, I could become a multibillionaire and I'm sure I'd still feel very stressed at times. Anyway, I don't really remember smoking ever really acting as a tranquilizer for me but, well, it's been more than five years already and my memory may not be what it used to be like anymore.

Good luck.

Hi friend, thanks for sympathetic comment, yeah Fibro can be a real pain to deal with occasionally. No, I had bronchitis several years ago. Thanks for the suggest, but I went through benzo he!! back in 2006, after doctor gave me no choice, but to cold turkey Klonopin. Sorry to read, you experience similar health complications, I take Mirtazapine for sleep, which has done wonders ! I sleep fantastic ! I was also scribed Cymbalta by Neurologist, but refuse to take, in fear of withdrawals. But many claim Cymbalta does calm Fibro. Surely hope health treats you well now and rest of your life. Funny thing is, I never enjoyed smoking, it was just a habit I developed over the years, I seriously dislike the smell of cig smoke, I complain about it, more then non smokers, Lol !!!!

 

[Arriss]

Sorry to hear that you have trouble adjusting, some things to consider.
1) I started with High MG in the morning, then half that through the day
2) I takes time to adjust, I felt craving so I just vaped more
3) I simulated analog experience (by this I mean that I used to come outside to smoke, so I switched to coming out to vape) physical memory, so your are replacing psychological action of analog use with vaping.
4) See if you are a stress smoker, if you are then it will be your biggest challenge, seek therapy for the stress you are having.

Hope this helps.

Thanks friend, I'm definetly a stress smoker. Nic only wasn't cutting it for me, I'd continue to increase nic levels, then my heart would start pounding. I tried two tank option, and was vaping my brains out, sometimes my Triton tank would get so hot, it's like a red stove burner. So, I had to seek other alternatives.

 

[TheRussianVaper]

Thanks friend, I'm definetly a stress smoker. Nic only wasn't cutting it for me, I'd continue to increase nic levels, then my heart would start pounding. I tried two tank option, and was vaping my brains out, sometimes my Triton tank would get so hot, it's like a red stove burner. So, I had to seek other alternatives.

I must say that therapy has helped many to reduce the cravings, just as something to note, Addiction is my line of work, or rather helping people with addiction.

 

[Arriss]

General also has a location finder on their website that will help to see if someplace local carries it. I haven't used it forever since most of local gas stations started carrying it a few years ago here in Michigan. So no promises on it being up to date. I copied a link below. And check out the Smokeless forum here on ECF, lots of fellow snusers who can help with any questions you may have. Also there's a beginners guide to snus that has some good info for new users. Find your happy place and you'll kick the habit no problem.

Store Finder

Thanks friend, I found a few local stores that carry snus, but price is expensive $8 - $9 plus tax. One store had several different flavors, I had no idea what to choose. Thus far WTA is doing the trick, so putting snus on hold.

 

[Rickajho]

There's a couple other things that occur to me as someone who had to lose a 30 year 2 PAD habit.

Don't stress over a specific time frame to quite. How this works is up to each individual. However, if you don't have a sincere desire to stop smoking... you don't. Vaping is a great way to get there but you still have to want to do it.

Have a cigarette if you really must - but don't make it easy either. Keep the cigarettes out of reach - some place where you have to get up and go get one every time if you really want it. (I put mine on the top shelf of the hall linen closet.) It's amazing how lazy we can get and some times all it takes is actually having to get up from in front of the toob to eliminate a cigarette you thought you really needed... twenty minutes ago.

And yes - there is a certain thing you need to work out about the pacing of your vaping. A lot of people new to this make the mistake of trying to treat vaping the same way they smoked. Getting nicotine out of vaping doesn't work that way - you can't just vapevapevape like you smoked and expect instant gratification. It's a much slower and lower absorption process than inhaling smoke.

If you have your nic level so high that you are getting woozy, have palpitations, or feel like a bad case of caffeine jitters within a few minutes of vaping - that's too high a nic level in context of the gear you are using. Drop the nic level and learn to vape more - on a paced out and more consistent basis. The goal is to get a somewhat steady stream of nicotine in your system to keep the craving fits to a minimum, not to be chasing withdrawal fits with short bursts of intense vaping. That never works very well and it can be a problem for people switching when in places where they can't vape at a steady pace - like during work hours.

I know some people react to stress in a way that drives them back to smoking - whether they are trying to switch to vaping or are using something else. I personally didn't go down that route for some reason when I started vaping - despite some really serious "life events" that would push anyone's stress level right to a 10. Can't help you out on that one - but it's something you may need to take a serious look at as to where your triggers lay for that stress = smoking connection.

Have the goal, trying new tricks and things, come here and chat. It will happen for you at your own pace if you want it to. When I switched it took me 3 months to completely lose a 30 year smoking habit. I didn't see a problem with that.

 

[Arriss]

I must say that therapy has helped many to reduce the cravings, just as something to note, Addiction is my line of work, or rather helping people with addiction.

I've tried therapy in the past for stress reduction, therapy did help with stress related issues, but not kickin the analog habit. My neurologist also provide some suggestions, such as walking, swimming, etc...... Most of my stress develops from health related issues, managing symptoms.

 

[Arriss]

There's a couple other things that occur to me as someone who had to lose a 30 year 2 PAD habit.

Don't stress over a specific time frame to quite. How this works is up to each individual. However, if you don't have a sincere desire to stop smoking... you don't. Vaping is a great way to get there but you still have to want to do it.

Have a cigarette if you really must - but don't make it easy either. Keep the cigarettes out of reach - some place where you have to get up and go get one every time if you really want it. (I put mine on the top shelf of the hall linen closet.) It's amazing how lazy we can get and some times all it takes is actually having to get up from in front of the toob to eliminate a cigarette you thought you really needed... twenty minutes ago.

And yes - there is a certain thing you need to work out about the pacing of your vaping. A lot of people new to this make the mistake of trying to treat vaping the same way they smoked. Getting nicotine out of vaping doesn't work that way - you can't just vapevapevape like you smoked and expect instant gratification. It's a much slower and lower absorption process than inhaling smoke.

If you have your nic level so high that you are getting woozy, have palpitations, or feel like a bad case of caffeine jitters within a few minutes of vaping - that's too high a nic level in context of the gear you are using. Drop the nic level and learn to vape more - on a paced out and more consistent basis. The goal is to get a somewhat steady stream of nicotine in your system to keep the craving fits to a minimum, not to be chasing withdrawal fits with short bursts of intense vaping. That never works very well and it can be a problem for people switching when in places where they can't vape at a steady pace - like during work hours.

I know some people react to stress in a way that drives them back to smoking - whether they are trying to switch to vaping or are using something else. I personally didn't go down that route for some reason when I started vaping - despite some really serious "life events" that would push anyone's stress level right to a 10. Can't help you out on that one - but it's something you may need to take a serious look at as to where your triggers lay for that stress = smoking connection.

Have the goal, trying new tricks and things, come here and chat. It will happen for you at your own pace if you want it to. When I switched it took me 3 months to completely lose a 30 year smoking habit. I didn't see a problem with that.

Thanks for suggestions friend. I tried everything, from various tanks, batteries, juices, nic levels, even diy, pg only, vg only, relaxing music, etc...... Nic only was just not satisfying my cravings. Stress is the main reason most people smoke analogs, talked to a few friends of mine that have been smokers for years, asked em why? they smoke, answer is stress. One friend quit for 5 years, then began again cause of work related stress. Sometimes when I visit the VA hospital, I see smokers on oxygen, puffing away. I'm thinkin yikes !! All my friends that tried vaping, claim the same, something is missing. Each one of us, has to try our best to discover what works. Very easy for me to kick analogs, when my stress levels are low, I've even quit for 2 years. Now with on going health complications, my stress levels are alway's high. Reason I desire to quit, cause smokin analogs surely is not helping my health.

 

[TheRussianVaper]

I've tried therapy in the past for stress reduction, therapy did help with stress related issues, but not kickin the analog habit. My neurologist also provide some suggestions, such as walking, swimming, etc...... Most of my stress develops from health related issues, managing symptoms.

Therapy will not help kicking analogue, it will help with reducing stress, subsequently easily switching to vaping. You might want to look hard in finding a very good therapist, they are not all the same, and some are just down right bad. I hope you find the right one, my personal favorite schools of therapy are "IFS" and "CBT" Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Internal Family Systems, Gestalt is really good too for this, I find IFS to be the most difficult emotionally, and the most beneficial. Hope you find help, good luck

 

[Arriss]

You probably haven't found the liquid you love. I fully believe that is half the battle. What changed for me was diy. I couldn't find a liquid I liked so I bought a few flavors and started adding them to pre bought juice to find what I liked. Finally I decided to cut out the middleman and experimented on my own.

Thanks friend, I'd have to agree with you. Majority of my vape battle was finding the right flavor, nothing replicate my cigs, I even tried a few tobacco flavors, which were nasty. I tried many samples at the vape shops, disliked em all. I did like Wintergreen, but juice made my chest tight, another I liked a lot was Extreme ice from MBvapor. Strawberry was delicious, but made my throat swell. Recently I ordered from MMWTA, their juice is fantastic ! I like the slight hint of tobacco in flavors, not over powering. One day, hopefully I can figure out how to replicate.

 

[Arriss]

Therapy will not help kicking analogue, it will help with reducing stress, subsequently easily switching to vaping. You might want to look hard in finding a very good therapist, they are not all the same, and some are just down right bad. I hope you find the right one, my personal favorite schools of therapy are "IFS" and "CBT" Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Internal Family Systems, Gestalt is really good too for this, I find IFS to be the most difficult emotionally, and the most beneficial. Hope you find help, good luck

Thanks friend, I once had a wonderful therapist, but the center closed down. His sessions truly did help me, he gave me assignments to complete each week. He helped me develop a new process of positive thinking, opposed to negative/stressed out. I tried a few other therapist, just wasn't the same, cept my bank account got thinner. No health insurance.

 

[Rickajho]

Thanks for suggestions friend. I tried everything, from various tanks, batteries, juices, nic levels, even diy, pg only, vg only, relaxing music, etc...... Nic only was just not satisfying my cravings. Stress is the main reason most people smoke analogs, talked to a few friends of mine that have been smokers for years, asked em why? they smoke, answer is stress. One friend quit for 5 years, then began again cause of work related stress. Sometimes when I visit the VA hospital, I see smokers on oxygen, puffing away. I'm thinkin yikes !! All my friends that tried vaping, claim the same, something is missing. Each one of us, has to try our best to discover what works. Very easy for me to kick analogs, when my stress levels are low, I've even quit for 2 years. Now with on going health complications, my stress levels are alway's high. Reason I desire to quit, cause smokin analogs surely is not helping my health.

Yeah but it's that connection you need to look at that smoking somehow makes stress "better." Smoking is actually a rapid acting stimulant to your system. If you are already ramped up with stress and the associated hormones the last thing a cigarette is going to do is induce a sensation of calm. People with anxiety disorders can easily chain smoke themselves into a panic attack while stressed. Not all that helpful no?

One thing that a lot of stressy Bessies do is tense up - physically tense up - to the point that breathing patterns become rapid and shallow. (Another thing that can induce a panic attack.) So a smoke makes certain stressed out people "relax" - insofar as it's the only time they have taken a deep breath maybe since their last cigarette.

Those very ingrained breathing pattens one develops after years or decades of smoking is a big issue and a reason the likes of gum and patches don't work out so well. There is nothing there in those forms of NRT that gives you that sense of relaxation from just taking a deep breath again as when you smoke a .....

Something to consider.

 

[TheRussianVaper]

Yeah but it's that connection you need to look at that smoking somehow makes stress "better." Smoking is actually a rapid acting stimulant to your system. If you are already ramped up with stress and the associated hormones the last thing a cigarette is going to do is induce a sensation of calm. People with anxiety disorders can easily chain smoke themselves into a panic attack while stressed. Not all that helpful no?

One thing that a lot of stressy Bessies do is tense up - physically tense up - to the point that breathing patterns become rapid and shallow. (Another thing that can induce a panic attack.) So a smoke makes certain stressed out people "relax" - insofar as it's the only time they have taken a deep breath maybe since their last cigarette.

Those very ingrained breathing pattens one develops after years or decades of smoking is a big issue and a reason the likes of gum and patches don't work out so well. There is nothing there in those forms of NRT that gives you that sense of relaxation from just taking a deep breath again as when you smoke a .....

Something to consider.

The reason that many stressed or depressed people are addicted to nicotine, even though it might be somewhat strange since its a stimulant, is this. Nicotine attaches to acetylcholine receptors in the brain, these receptors are used by the motor function system as well as sympathetic and [para sympathetic nervous system, all of these systems when affected, alter our mental arousal, motivation and attention. People who are stress smokers, smoke and ingest nicotine along with other altering chemicals because they affect these areas of the brain, making us more alert (in the nicotine case) and make us think more clearly. Other chemicals in the cancer sticks might have a calming effect, or systematic numbing down effect, and other chemicals is what the OP is missing when vaping. I would try Valerian root or Passion flower or 5-HTP along with vaping, should help, at least valerian root helped me a lot at first with stress.

 

[devilzrox]

One of the things that helped me is by going to the gym during the whole analogue to vaping phase.

I was already regular at my gym and took it for granted how I felt during each session. How fast my heart rate would be, the level of perspiration on my face and body. I wasn't even expecting there to be a change, as (fortunately for me) I adapted to vaping from a real cigarette quite quickly. I expect it might be to do with me loving technology; it was like going from a basic stick shift car to a funky auto which did things 'better'.

Anyway I digress. As I said I wasn't even thinking that my situation at the gym would improve, I think I thought in the back of my mind that as I was still getting nicotine, nothing would change - the vaping would decrease my chances of death as opposed to analogues, but not really get me healthier.

How wrong I was... I used to die after 5 minutes on the treadmill. Within a month I'd be looking down at the timer without having even broken a sweat, expecting it to be at 2 minutes or something, and was shocked to see 7 minutes. Before long I was doing twice as long with half the sweat and a lower heartrate. My sunken eyes and the bags under them cleared up too.

For me it's this feeling that from now and then has made me crave a real cigarette, but analysing the craving has made me realise how insane that craving is. I'll explain. Now I feel like I almost have superhuman strength compared to when I smoked analogues. I sometimes miss the feeling of lethargy (crazy as it is) and want an analogue to 'ground me'. Looking into this analogy I realised that I was so used to being unhealthy, I wanted the comfort zone of feeling less able, more out of breath, more 'grounded'. It wasn't long before these cravings disappeared.

Another way of getting to love vaping is if you can find yourself vaping in a situation where you wouldn't be able to smoke analogues, like indoors. You can then justify in your mind that an analogue wouldn't be able to do anything right now, and here you are, getting your hit in almost a forbidden way

 

[TheRussianVaper]

One of the things that helped me is by going to the gym during the whole analogue to vaping phase.

I was already regular at my gym and took it for granted how I felt during each session. How fast my heart rate would be, the level of perspiration on my face and body. I wasn't even expecting there to be a change, as (fortunately for me) I adapted to vaping from a real cigarette quite quickly. I expect it might be to do with me loving technology; it was like going from a basic stick shift car to a funky auto which did things 'better'.

Anyway I digress. As I said I wasn't even thinking that my situation at the gym would improve, I think I thought in the back of my mind that as I was still getting nicotine, nothing would change - the vaping would decrease my chances of death as opposed to analogues, but not really get me healthier.

How wrong I was... I used to die after 5 minutes on the treadmill. Within a month I'd be looking down at the timer without having even broken a sweat, expecting it to be at 2 minutes or something, and was shocked to see 7 minutes. Before long I was doing twice as long with half the sweat and a lower heartrate. My sunken eyes and the bags under them cleared up too.

For me it's this feeling that from now and then has made me crave a real cigarette, but analysing the craving has made me realise how insane that craving is. I'll explain. Now I feel like I almost have superhuman strength compared to when I smoked analogues. I sometimes miss the feeling of lethargy (crazy as it is) and want an analogue to 'ground me'. Looking into this analogy I realised that I was so used to being unhealthy, I wanted the comfort zone of feeling less able, more out of breath, more 'grounded'. It wasn't long before these cravings disappeared.

Another way of getting to love vaping is if you can find yourself vaping in a situation where you wouldn't be able to smoke analogues, like indoors. You can then justify in your mind that an analogue wouldn't be able to do anything right now, and here you are, getting your hit in almost a forbidden way

I bet you also didnt have half the gym making a large circle by stepping away from you, since you no longer stunk up the place . Same here I workout, the lung capacity increased tremendously, muscle memory improved, recovery is unlike what I have seen before.

 

[devilzrox]

I bet you also didnt have half the gym making a large circle by stepping away from you, since you no longer stunk up the place . Same here I workout, the lung capacity increased tremendously, muscle memory improved, recovery is unlike what I have seen before.

That's another thing, the smell of tobacco. When I've had the occasional too-drunk-to-care-and-lost-my-eliquid analogue, I'm more conscious of ever as to how bad it smells. I'm thinking 'wow is this a super-stinky analogue' but then realise, no, they all smelled like this..... you smelled like this. And it's a sobering thought.

 

[Arriss]

Yeah but it's that connection you need to look at that smoking somehow makes stress "better." Smoking is actually a rapid acting stimulant to your system. If you are already ramped up with stress and the associated hormones the last thing a cigarette is going to do is induce a sensation of calm. People with anxiety disorders can easily chain smoke themselves into a panic attack while stressed. Not all that helpful no?

One thing that a lot of stressy Bessies do is tense up - physically tense up - to the point that breathing patterns become rapid and shallow. (Another thing that can induce a panic attack.) So a smoke makes certain stressed out people "relax" - insofar as it's the only time they have taken a deep breath maybe since their last cigarette.

Those very ingrained breathing pattens one develops after years or decades of smoking is a big issue and a reason the likes of gum and patches don't work out so well. There is nothing there in those forms of NRT that gives you that sense of relaxation from just taking a deep breath again as when you smoke a .....

Something to consider.

Hi friend, thanks for feedback, no breathing issues for me past few years, I throat hit analogs, never inhaling to my lungs. I smoke analogs fast, freaks people out, Lol !!! Last PFT exam approx 6 years ago, I was breathing 100%,. Radiologist states my lungs are very healthy, and unusually large. I smoked analogs while in the Army, ran 10 mile marathon, several times a year.

I certainly don't know the scientific theory behind smoking analogs, just know that an ingredient in tobacco helps me relax.

 

[Arriss]

The reason that many stressed or depressed people are addicted to nicotine, even though it might be somewhat strange since its a stimulant, is this. Nicotine attaches to acetylcholine receptors in the brain, these receptors are used by the motor function system as well as sympathetic and [para sympathetic nervous system, all of these systems when affected, alter our mental arousal, motivation and attention. People who are stress smokers, smoke and ingest nicotine along with other altering chemicals because they affect these areas of the brain, making us more alert (in the nicotine case) and make us think more clearly. Other chemicals in the cancer sticks might have a calming effect, or systematic numbing down effect, and other chemicals is what the OP is missing when vaping. I would try Valerian root or Passion flower or 5-HTP along with vaping, should help, at least valerian root helped me a lot at first with stress.

Thanks friend, I've already tried herbal remedies, Chamomile tea, Kava, Valerian, etc.... most just put me to sleep, within an hour ! If I could use without falling asleep, would be fantastic. Reason I prefer analog's calming affect, I don't get sleepy, till it's time for me to crash. I don't smoke analogs much, just during times of stress, and being on the computer, noticed I smoke the most occupied on the computer.

What concerned me was, I was vaping way more then I smoke analogs. I never chain smoked, but I chain vaped like crazy non stop. I would vape 3 to 4 ml's per hour, trying to achieve same satisfaction as analogs. I could easily vape 20-30 ml's per day, returning to analogs. Reason, I came to forum for assistance.

 

[TheRussianVaper]

Thanks friend, I've already tried herbal remedies, Chamomile tea, Kava, Valerian, etc.... most just put me to sleep, within an hour ! If I could use without falling asleep, would be fantastic. Reason I prefer analog's calming affect, I don't get sleepy, till it's time for me to crash. I don't smoke analogs much, just during times of stress, and being on the computer, noticed I smoke the most occupied on the computer.

What concerned me was, I was vaping way more then I smoke analogs. I never chain smoked, but I chain vaped like crazy non stop. I would vape 3 to 4 ml's per hour, trying to achieve same satisfaction as analogs. I could easily vape 20-30 ml's per day, returning to analogs. Reason, I came to forum for assistance.

5-HTP gives calming effect plus energy, its a serotonin "stimulant," try that and give it a week to induce increased amount of serotonin. You might need increased dosages considering your situation, also you might want to try other supplements for well being such as CoQ10 and B complex and vitamin D, and omegas (as in fish oil. All together gave me a very strong mental boost. 5-HTP with serotonin increase is the best, although considering the information you have given I can already deduce your rough life, friend, from counseling perspective I can only imagine the abuse you must have suffered as a child, for which I am terribly sorry. You are missing dopamine receptors in your brain, as well as normal amount of serotonin, hence the addictions. I wish you the best.