Need stun gun advice

[Lyndagayle]

I need some help. I'm looking for a stun gun (not taser gun) to break up dog fights. Let me start off by saying I have tried every way imaginable to break up my dog's fights. I've tried using a water hose and that didn't phase them. We've sprayed diluted vinegar and water in their nostrils and put clothes baskets over their heads. We're fortunate that neither of us have been hurt trying to break them up. They don't fight often, but when they do, it's not pretty and it's a long drawn out affair trying to separate them. I can't stand to see them hurting each other and hubby and I just don't have the guts to let them "fight it out." Our border collie/katahula (sp?) is the aggressive one and the other one (Golden Retriever mix) seems to fight more out of fear. They're both pretty big dogs, around 70+ pounds and neither will back off once the rumble begins. I've been reading about other ways to break up their fights and thought about pepper spray but some of the articles say this can sometimes make the fight worse. Many articles have recommended using a stun gun (the kind with two probes, not the taser) but good grief, there are gazillions of them out there and I have no clue what voltage to get. I want one that will stop the fight, not harm my dogs. Can anyone help me????

 

[uba egar320]

Stun Batons

Check these out.

 

[Mani]

TASER - Sales and Information

 

[Lyndagayle]

Thank you for the responses. I talked to my son last night and he knows a guy in Memphis who sells the two probe kind. He's going to get some information from him on which one would be the safest and most effective. I hate resorting to something like this but I hate to see them hurt each other and limp around for days after a rumble. The weird thing is, they fight and then a day or two later, they're scuffling and playing together like nothing ever happened. My Chihuahua has post traumatic stress for days after an episode. He always tries to break them up and I have to scarf him up and put him in his taxi to keep him from becoming a hot dog sandwich.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Stun Gun, For Sale, Black Cobra, Small Fry Mini, Sabre, Stun Baton, Cell Phone Stun Gun,
This guy has everything....

 

[skydragon]

I'm curious if you have consulted a trainer or breeder to try and find the underlying reason for the aggression? It's uncharacteristic of a Collie to be that aggressive and I just looked up what a Catahoula is and it doesn't seem that they are innately aggressive barring certain situations. Maybe it is trying to herd your Golden?

Do they fight when no one is home?

If you have already consulted with a trainer or breeder and can't solve the problem, would a shock collar be better than a stun gun? I hate the things but then they wouldn't have to know it is coming from you and may associate the shock with the action as opposed to the shock from you.

Maybe whiskey would know.

 

[Cajun83]

Bear spray... they'll stop... trust me. lol

 

[Lyndagayle]

I'm curious if you have consulted a trainer or breeder to try and find the underlying reason for the aggression? It's uncharacteristic of a Collie to be that aggressive and I just looked up what a Catahoula is and it doesn't seem that they are innately aggressive barring certain situations. Maybe it is trying to herd your Golden?

Do they fight when no one is home?



If you have already consulted with a trainer or breeder and can't solve the problem, would a shock collar be better than a stun gun? I hate the things but then they wouldn't have to know it is coming from you and may associate the shock with the action as opposed to the shock from you.

Maybe whiskey would know.

You're right about the border collie/catahoula and as far as being aggressive, other than toward the golden, he is not. He is high strung and the strange thing is, he will look you straight in the eyes and won't break the stare. He was a little over a year old when I brought Bear (the Golden Retriever mix) home. Bear was a rescue and was only weeks old. They got along fine and played great until Bear got a few months old. At that point, I think Patch (collie) wanted to prove he was the alpha male and started beating the crap out of him. One day he proceeded to pounce on Bear and Bear decided enough was enough and they fought until we could get them apart. We had to keep them separated for days. They sometimes go for months with no fights and out of nowhere, one will erupt. When Patch stares at Bear, Bear will growl and when he growls, Patch growls back. When this exchange takes place, they begin moving in position and Patch is the one who lunges first. I really think it's the alpha male instinct with Patch and pure defense mode for Bear because he is so mellow and loves to be rubbed and loved on. Patch, on the other hand, had rather not be touched except once in a while on his own terms. His main goal in life is to play ball. It's an obsession. They both are very intelligent dogs and learn things quickly. My husband can get either of them to obey commands just by the motioning them with his hand. They're both obedient unless they're fighting. During one fight we got out the water hose and sprayed them directly in the face and neither would break their hold. I read that 50/50 vinegar and water sprayed in their face would usually break up a fight but it didn't phase them. They've never turned on us when we try to physically intervene but it's always a fear that they might because of the intensity of the fight without realizing it. I thought about trying pepper spray but then I read an article written by a trainer who said it could make the dogs more aggressive, especially if they were fighting out of fear. That trainer recommended a two probe stun gun, not a single line taser. They said it was a humane way of assuring the fight got stopped before the dogs or persons involved got seriously injured. They didn't give any details about voltage to use and that's the info I'm seeking now. We love our dogs dearly and want to keep both of them. So far they have never fought when we were away. However, they have started fighting outside while we're inside in the middle of the night. My husband heard it and went out to break them up and ended up struggling with them for two hours. I slept through it. He was exhausted and could hardly move for a couple of days after the incident and both dogs were beat down and quite bloody. We're at our wits end and hoping to find something that will stop them before it gets so ugly. My hopes are, if we use a stun gun, we'll only have to do it a couple of times and they'll become conditioned to the negative results and refrain from taking the plunge into a full blown fight. I'm open to any suggestions here and thank you for responding.

 

[skydragon]

You're right about the border collie/catahoula and as far as being aggressive, other than toward the golden, he is not. He is high strung and the strange thing is, he will look you straight in the eyes and won't break the stare. He was a little over a year old when I brought Bear (the Golden Retriever mix) home. Bear was a rescue and was only weeks old. They got along fine and played great until Bear got a few months old. At that point, I think Patch (collie) wanted to prove he was the alpha male and started beating the crap out of him. One day he proceeded to pounce on Bear and Bear decided enough was enough and they fought until we could get them apart. We had to keep them separated for days. They sometimes go for months with no fights and out of nowhere, one will erupt. When Patch stares at Bear, Bear will growl and when he growls, Patch growls back. When this exchange takes place, they begin moving in position and Patch is the one who lunges first. I really think it's the alpha male instinct with Patch and pure defense mode for Bear because he is so mellow and loves to be rubbed and loved on. Patch, on the other hand, had rather not be touched except once in a while on his own terms. His main goal in life is to play ball. It's an obsession. They both are very intelligent dogs and learn things quickly. My husband can get either of them to obey commands just by the motioning them with his hand. They're both obedient unless they're fighting. During one fight we got out the water hose and sprayed them directly in the face and neither would break their hold. I read that 50/50 vinegar and water sprayed in their face would usually break up a fight but it didn't phase them. They've never turned on us when we try to physically intervene but it's always a fear that they might because of the intensity of the fight without realizing it. I thought about trying pepper spray but then I read an article written by a trainer who said it could make the dogs more aggressive, especially if they were fighting out of fear. That trainer recommended a two probe stun gun, not a single line taser. They said it was a humane way of assuring the fight got stopped before the dogs or persons involved got seriously injured. They didn't give any details about voltage to use and that's the info I'm seeking now. We love our dogs dearly and want to keep both of them. So far they have never fought when we were away. However, they have started fighting outside while we're inside in the middle of the night. My husband heard it and went out to break them up and ended up struggling with them for two hours. I slept through it. He was exhausted and could hardly move for a couple of days after the incident and both dogs were beat down and quite bloody. We're at our wits end and hoping to find something that will stop them before it gets so ugly. My hopes are, if we use a stun gun, we'll only have to do it a couple of times and they'll become conditioned to the negative results and refrain from taking the plunge into a full blown fight. I'm open to any suggestions here and thank you for responding.

I have no doubts you love them dearly. That is apparent.

Are they neutered?

 

[Ardeagold]

Ummm...do NOT use those to try to stop a dog fight. They'll just make the dogs angrier. They don't know where the pain is coming from so will lash out. AND, dogs are highly resistant to the stun guns. They can/do keep going at the same voltage that would drop a man 20x over.

A perfect example happened last month. Police stunned a Newf (female about 100 lbs) 4x. Didn't do a thing. It's a long story and irrelevant here, but the stun gun just did NOT work at all, except to freak her out.

You might want to consider an air horn. You only need enough time to get them apart so you can put a leash over their heads and remove them from one another.

One way to stop it if there's a fight and there are two people. One person gets behind each dog. Pick up the back legs to your waist or chest height (depending on the height of the person and the dog), and wheelbarrow it backwards when the head drops. They cannot bite you that way, and when you do it, within a minute or two the head will drop. If they're latched on, keep the legs up and slowly start moving back. KEEP THOSE LEGS UP.

Once you get them a safe distance away from one another, and are in separate safe spaces, check them over for bites, slashes. If you find any, wash out with sterile saline solution (from a can which you can get at WalMart or a drug store)...shoot it directly INTO the puncture/gash. AND, then give the dog Amoxicillin right away. 500 mg for a Golden every 8 hrs for about 2-3 days, and depending on the weight of your other dog...about the same. That will save you some HUGE Vet bills, and infections from bites. Ask your vet for an Rx to have filled at Wal Mart and tell him why you want it. I have a rolling Rx for things like that for the dogs....as do most kennel people, handlers, breeders, etc. No reason you can't too. But ask the Vet for the proper dosage.

Goldens are vicious, ferocious fighters. I have 7 right now, and have had more in the past. They jump in and out and slash and bite. They can do damage quickly, and often aim for the neck, face and, amazingly, legs.

IF they're not fixed yet...get them fixed, unless they're being shown in competitive AKC shows. That will help reduce the testosterone...but will take about 5 - 6 mos to become totally effective and you see some sort of behavioral change.

One thing that's very very important. When they start fighting, do NOT yell, scream, or freak out. Stay calm but move fast. Have some slip leads close to your back door (they're like lassos) so you can throw them over the head of one or the other. AND, once you've brought them in, checked them over, done your first aid...and their adrenaline is back down to normal ranges, put them back in a room together. DO NOT SEPARATE THEM FOR DAYS. Only a few minutes. The longer you separate them the longer it takes for them to get over it...and you can end up having dogs that hate one another on sight, so you can never put them back in the same area.

Just stay there with them for a while, until you're sure they won't posture anymore. If necessary, keep the slip leads on them and you and your hubby each hold one. Watch TV or something for about 30 mins that way. If they start to growl, posture, or even LOOK at each other, just say "cut it out and go lie down"...firmly. DO NOT pamper one or the other, DO NOT yell at either after the fight...just act like everything is perfectly normal (and have yourself a nice drink).

The key is watching body language. When you see them "eyeballing" one another, or freezing in place...or hearing a whine or low growl, YOU act before anything happens. Tell them to cut it out right then. And mean it. If you feel that a fight is imminent, throw the leash on them and tell them to lie down...at your feet.

Keep an eye on them and see if you can find the "trigger" that sets off a fight. Is it bones? Toys? What IS it? If it's bones or something like that, then just take them away and only give them in separate areas. Same goes for toys. Sometimes its YOU. They're fine until you walk into the back yard. One comes running up...the other attacks that one. If that's the case, do NOT yell at the one attacking. Start saying GOOD BOY to the one running up...and be ALL happy to see it. Sometimes the attacker is protecting YOU from the other dog running up to you, but if he thinks you called that dog, and are happy it's coming so fast...he'll often NOT attack. He's responding to your cues. Happens here a lot. I've learned that even if a dog is barreling at me at top speed, when certain pairs are out together I have to encourage that dog in a happy voice to COME...so the other dog won't attack. Reverse psychology I guess. Oh, and make sure to sidestep the dog so you don't get knocked down when he thinks you're calling him all happy to see him! LOL

I have 15 dogs right now. 6 Newfoundlands...all over 100 lbs, most around 140-160. Goldens that range from 55-85 lbs. An Am Bulldog that's about 70 lbs. A Toller that weighs about 55 lbs, and a Chihuahua.

We've had dogs for 30+ years and used to breed Labs and Goldens. We've had our fair share of fights, dogs that hate one another, etc. Right now I have a male Newf and male Golden that just don't like each other much. They're vying for top dog position. The Golden is hyper and the Newf keeps flooring him because he doesn't like hyper. LOL I just let the Newf squish the Golden (he postures over him and then lays on him) after the Golden has danced around and growled and acted stupid for a bit, and I tell the Golden to NOT dare bite the Newf in the face. Doesn't look great in the show ring. He seems to understand. I don't freak out anymore. Just go in, get a leash, pull the Newf off...and that's that. But I let them roll around and do their "fight" thingy for about 10 minutes. Tires them out so they're ready to settle after it's all over.

The Newf weighs 157 lbs. The Golden weighs 65 lbs. Neither wants to hurt the other, but they just have some need to be all macho.

Once I learned to shut up, don't freak out, and do what needed to be done, firmly, we've had a lot less problems here. Haven't had a real "fight" in several years.

Best of luck and I'd also suggest talking to a professional trainer/behaviorist. They can come in and tell you who's doing what. Sometimes the "innocent" one (to you) isn't innocent at all. They use body language to send signals, and often the one who is on the receiving end of the attacks is actually doing something to entice the other to attack. Behaviorists can see this...whereas you can't.

And I highly recommend that you, your husband, and your two dogs go to Obedience classes. See if there's a local kennel club nearby, and check into their classes. PetSmart classes at this juncture aren't what you need. You need "dog people" around, with experience to help you through. I think you might find you enjoy it! And the dogs will do better once you're all on the same page.

Just keep calm....and please don't try a stun gun. It's not a good idea. Nor is a shock collar. As I said these things will more than likely make the fights MUCH worse. The pros that train attack dogs use these things to make the dogs meaner, and I don't think that's what you want. You want calmer, not more aggressive.

Granted all of this is work. It's a LOT of work, learning what to do and when to do it, and what not to do. Training. Obedience. Reading body language. Etc. It's not an "easy answer" like you think a stun gun will be. But that stun gun isn't an easy answer either, and IMO is one of the worst things you could do. I wouldn't be sticking MY hand in the middle of a dog fight to try to get through hair to stun it. I'd prefer to keep my hand....really.

Rule of thumb is to let them fight and get it over with as long as they're not drawing serious blood. That's the only way they truly "settle" the issue, unless you have the ability to be the true leader of the pack, and they know you're NOT going to tolerate any foolishness.

Oh and next time something like what happened to your husband happens again (and it probably will until you figure out how to stop it), tell him to walk away...let them fight...go get you or a neighbor, and then do the leg thing. Do NOT put himself in danger like that. Plus it just makes them more nuts.

 

[whiskey]

I Will just make a few comments if I may...Sounds like you have 2 alpha's there...To achieve peace is going to be a lot of work & constant attention to them...Separation may be your final choice to end the fighting...A field training collar
is also an option...2 people...1 each dog, leashed...meet & great over & over...never turn your attention else where while doing this...Field collars are a static shock, given at the right moment when a fight starts...this has to be repeated only until they learn Fight=shock...with a stern "NO"they learn fast,but have to wear the collars always,
other than that they will have to be separated if these things don't work . If you can't spare the time to try different things, then it will not stop..Letting it go on is only going to result in an injured dog or dogs & heavy vet bills... Good luck

 

[MuddyWaterMan]

Please go with the field training collar. I usually don't agree with them but I would say it is much better than a stun gun ( I have been shocked by both) and as long as you aren't using it to train commands but stop behaviors it has it's place. Whatever method you use i strongly suggest you both use it on yourselves before the dogs just so you KNOW what you are inflicting on them. The wife and I both subjected ourselves to the shock collar before we used it for about a week. I take it that when they start to shows signs of aggression that a stern voice will not stop them? The reason I ask is because I assume since they have a tendency to fight you don't leave them alone. If that is the case and you are around when the fighting break out yet they still wont listen pre- fighting then I think you may have more issues than just over zealous dogs. if they don't accept you as alpha then you need to rethink the way you train and interact with your dogs. We have even had fighting dogs that were saved from the ring that would listen as long as you spoke up before the fight actually started. Good luck and I truly hope you get some ideas here before having to resort to electric shock therapy.

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

 

[Lyndagayle]

I feel like I've learned a lot in this thread and I can't thank each of you enough. We have the lasso type leashes and hadn't thought about using them during fights. They are now hanging in the kitchen. The fights are getting fewer and farther between and we suspect that our new Chihuahua is now the antagonist so we're going to take steps to keep him at bay when we bring our big dogs in or go outside to spend time with them. He gets bent out of shape when the big dogs are around us and barks and nips at the collie (he doesn't like Patch for some reason). We think the growling at the little guy to get him to back off is what triggers the disruption between the two big ones. Anyway, after reading all of the excellent tips and advice, our only new deterrent is going to be an air horn and not a stun gun. Thanks again for all the good advice. I know obedience school or trainer would be an excellent way to go but unfortunately, we live in a small rural town and we'd have to drive quite a distance which would be close to impossible at this time with our work schedules. I'm going to concentrate on calming down too. I'm guilty of yelling, screaming and freaking out and that certainly hasn't helped the situation. My husband is good with staying calm and all of our dogs obey his every command, outside of a frenzied fight. You all are great and your advice is well received. Thanks again.

 

[whiskey]

You need to be the trainer/Pack leader...you have to let them know what is allowed & what is not...2 dogs = a pack...every pack has a leader..that should be you, not them...a small dog amid bigger ones that escalates excitement is the trigger...Take care

 

[Lyndagayle]

Thanks Whiskey! I'm learning.

 

[whiskey]

Good girl.....Whatcha got...2 males?

 

[silkakc]

Hiya,

I raised 4 German Shepherds in my home and we had some ruckuses. Two males (one neutered) and two females (one spayed). I'm really glad you are not going to use a stun gun or shocker- that would have enraged them more. A "normal" brawl could have turned into a "fight to the death" if you had shocked them. We have 2 acres with invisible fence for our dogs to play in and had a few occasions where one of the 4 got too close to the line and got shocked. They immediately turned to the dog closest to them and nailed them- like it was THEIR fault that they got shocked!

My boys Patch and Cody were the usual brawlers. They were pretty obedient and I would come out screaming and the two would almost always break apart just from my voice scaring them. Which is good because they weighed the same as me They only persisted a couple times and luckily my husband or daughter grabbed one while I dragged the other into a bedroom. I always grabbed them by their cheeks of their face and made them look at me and yelled at them," NO fighting allowed!".
Then I would grab a rolled up newspaper and smack my left hand with it and say " No ..fighting ..allowed!" in a low ominous voice while giving them the evil eye and glaring at them. They'd be so nervous they'd leave the room LOL! Patch was always the aggressor and he was the neutered one, oddly enough! But he was our first dog and resented the others we added to the family.

They did draw blood a couple times but were small 1 inch scratches both times. In the later years, I separated the boys while I was gone and would lock Patch in a bedroom. Patch got arthritic and he would lash out at Cody if Cody was near him when his feet slid on the wooden floors. The truth is he hated Cody from Day 1 and used any excuse to snap at him during his last year- when he was 11 yrs old. Almost every tussle was over food or treats or guarding me during the earlier years. So I fed them separately with all 4 in diff rooms. If the one at my side growled when another came close, I told them No Growling! I couldn't throw a ball outside because Patch and Cody would immediately get in a fight so I played with them individually outside. Two boy dogs just can't get along when it comes to balls and food bowls! I had to buy quick eating treats like crunchy bones. They couldn't have raw hides because they took too long to devour and they felt the need to guard their treasures. It caused too much friction so I couldn't buy those.

If you can, try to get some respect from them with lil things first. My dogs were dreadfully afraid of a rolled newspaper even though I never hit them with it. They'd see me hit my hand with it and get all sheepish. But it made them respect me and it gave me some control over them. If your boys growl a lot at each other, slap your hand with a newspaper and say "NO". Try to stop the pre-fight stuff and bad behavior. I had good luck using a low ominous voice too. If someone got something out of the garbage, I would say<" What.. did ..you ...do?" in a low voice and everyone would slink into the bedrooms and hide. It was hysterical because all 4 would slink away guilty and only one of them was the culprit LOL!

I now am raising my daughter's Pyrenees till she gets out of college and that breed- OMG- is a freak of nature. Lutie- the Pyr- got in two fights with Cody during his 12th year and that dog has the tenacity of a pitbull. I couldn't stop her with my voice or my hands. I pulled her into a side room and could not stop her from growling or pulling to get back at Cody. It took me a good 3 minutes of me having her in a face lock to stop and pay attention to me. I guess I exert some authority because my wrists are right beside her mouth while I'm grabbing her cheeks and she's never snapped at my arms. My neighbor, a mastiff show-dog owner, told me to roll her on the ground and pin her down if it happened again. But Cody passed at 12.8 yrs and I didn't have to try that method after all. But she says pinning them down and holding them there teaches them who is boss.

Good luck and separate them when you are not there. You can't let one jerky dog abuse the other because it's not fair. Patch was my jerky dog so he stayed alone in the master bedroom when I was at work or gone.

Lori

 

[Rudy33]

We have 3 chesapeake bay retrievers, two male(father and son) and female (daughter) all intact. The boys can't be together at all or they fight and draw blood. The son doesn't win the fight but doesn't give up either. We have them apart. One in the kennel while the other has family time.

The best way to separate fighting dogs is to grab their back legs and walk them away from each other. You will need two people and walk backwards in a circle so they can't bite you. It is hard for them to continue fighting while standing only on their front legs. Once they get their non fighting brain back you can put them in separate places. I've learned this from a friend of min that works in an animal shelter to determine adaptability in aggressive dogs.

Good luck.

 

[Stephaniems]

If you roll and pin a dog you best be really sure you can handle it, if not you have screwed up majorly. I've only had to do that move with 2 of the dogs I've had, both hard headed shepherds. Don't really recommend it unless you truly are the boss.

 

[Rhetoric Camel]

Just popped in this thread and glad to see you decided against the stun gun on the dogs.