never smoked an analog, but vaping is awesome!

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zadane

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I'm sort of amazed to see the response of some people here, and might i add a little ashamed too.

This person has found something that not only helps with her ADD but also helps with her depression and does so with minimal side effects.

StillAlive could have started smoking real cigarettes but she chose the e cig instead. this is a significantly better choice, and I am proud that she chose this course over one that will make her stink, cough, wheeze, damage her eyes, lungs, nose, mouth, joints, skin.

If she can get by using small amounts of nicotine instead of mass amounts of prescription drugs then I am honestly happy for her.


As I've said before I have ADHD and I can tell you smoking helps more than any medication ever did with my ADHD, and with the e cig it does the same thing but with less harmful side effects.


in short, why get mad at her? would you rather she went and lit up a real cigarette? or would you rather she start vaping? (and not doing either is not an option)
 
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stillalive

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I don't see anything wrong with taking nicotine to help with depression.
I read a study once whereby depressed patients were given a patch containing nic or no nic and the nicotine patch people improved.
To me it is safer than wellbutrin which can have numerous side effects.

I think that was one of the studies I came across too! I don't know how many studies about nicotine for depression there are, but it was pretty cool to see! SSRI's don't seem to do much to help me. Seems like dopamine is more of a problem than serotonin, but my psych dr won't prescribe wellbutrin. *shrugs* Honestly, I'm okay with where my depression is with the antidepressant, but life could be so much better (and is with nicotine!) and the concentration problems aren't affected by the prescription at all.

Truthfully, if there was NO other option to get nicotine at all, at this point I would probably choose a short but enjoyable life smoking over a long/healthy life being depressed and unable to hold a job because of low energy and a ridiculous attention span. Luckily, I live in a time where smoking is not my only option!
 

MXBNW

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I think that was one of the studies I came across too! I don't know how many studies about nicotine for depression there are, but it was pretty cool to see! SSRI's don't seem to do much to help me. Seems like dopamine is more of a problem than serotonin, but my psych dr won't prescribe wellbutrin. *shrugs* Honestly, I'm okay with where my depression is with the antidepressant, but life could be so much better (and is with nicotine!) and the concentration problems aren't affected by the prescription at all.

Truthfully, if there was NO other option to get nicotine at all, at this point I would probably choose a short but enjoyable life smoking over a long/healthy life being depressed and unable to hold a job because of low energy and a ridiculous attention span. Luckily, I live in a time where smoking is not my only option!

Well said. :)
 

JumpSteady

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Nicotine is the most addictive drug I have ever tried. I smoked cigs for 15 years and was finally able to quit using gum. When my local drug store stopped stocking the cheap generic gum I liked, and I found that I hated the more expensive nicorette, I quit nicotine.

I currently vape zero nicotine juice. But I can certainly take it or leave it, after all it's zero nicotine. I occasionally hit my girlfriend's 18mg loaded pv just to make sure it's working correctly for her. :vapor:

I agree that nicotine does help one study, I remember I used to dip during finals when I was in college. (I know that's gross) It helped.

In spite of all this I cannot in good conscience approve of anyone taking up nicotine IN ANY FORM. It really is quite unbelievably addictive. If it were not, we wouldn't all be here. Nicotine is not good, it is BAD because you become addicted to it.

Now that I've got that off my chest. Welcome to ecf. I suggest you cut your low nicotine juice with zero nicotine juice to make it extra low. :unsure: If you must have nicotine. :facepalm:
 

Jack Murray

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Hi hi, sorry to come in late to the discussion (I've been moving). MX pointed me here. =)

I have major bipolar disorder myself, type I, and my medications were working all right until I started vaping when things went PERFECTO. I had not smoked for 17 years, but I always wanted to do it again, I never had a time where the desire to do so was gone. I started vaping and that was the touch of extra energy that my brain seemed to need to get going properly again. I have discussed this with my psychiatrist numerous times and read a ton of articles about this online and elsewhere, and this is a known effect of nicotine and some mental illnesses, especially schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (people with these have the worst quit rates of anyone anywhere).

As much as they know exactly why any brain medication works the way it does, nicotine seems to calm background noise, something that bipolars and schizophrenics have a lot of. You can concentrate better; your fight or flee instinct becomes calmer, you can tell the difference between things that are actually a hazard to you and things that are not a lot better.

Anyway, my doctors (both GP and psych) have recommended that I keep vaping because of the obvious help it has given me. I can go outside by myself for the first time in years; I am far more social than I ever was; I have energy and am a happy camper for the first time in 46 *years*. I have a friend with ADHD who is finding similar benefits with concentration vaping very low nic juice.

We all have our needs and I think the word addiction is too loaded a word to use amongst friends who used to honk on coffin nails until the cows came home. Of course no one would suggest that you pick nicotine as your first stage in the fight against mental difficulty, but it can really help along the way. I've worked on getting my meds right since 1990; it took until last year and vaping for me to become what I am today, and that is... happy. Useful. I think it's a shame so many people are jumping on you for what you feel you need to do. Just don't pick it as the be-all, end-all is my advice. It's not perfect, nothing is, but anything that helps you *now* helps you find the next step if there is one for you. =)

Take care and best of luck finding what you need. I think it's sad that people still have a set of rules for what they as "normal" people do, therefore *everyone* should do, not taking the needs of those with differing abilities and minds into account. Do your best for yourself and align yourself with people who *care about you* and about your success. That is the finest advice I can give you, and I certainly have found that in areas of the ecf myself. =)
 
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stillalive

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Thanks for the awesome post, Jack! That was very helpful and encouraging.

It's true-- for schizophrenia alone, I've seen smoking figures as high as 95%!!!! I have hallucinations and other "psychotic symptoms" occasionally when I get physically sick (my brain is weird, lol), so I'm really curious to see if nicotine will help the next time it hits. I think there's a reason that so many people "self-medicate" with alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs-- they work! As far as I understand it, the main reason that healthcare professionals worry about addiction is because of the dangers to a person's liver, lungs, brain, etc., which, for cigarettes, comes from the additives, not the nicotine. However, laypeople seem to have taken up the fight for doctors without understanding what the doctors are actually concerned about. Oh well.

That's not to say vaping is without risks... but it certainly seems a lot safer than the scary drugs I've been on so far! I'll gladly take vaping over Parkinson's disease, especially since the former works a million times better for me.
 

Jack Murray

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Thanks for the awesome post, Jack! That was very helpful and encouraging.

It's true-- for schizophrenia alone, I've seen smoking figures as high as 95%!!!! I have hallucinations and other "psychotic symptoms" occasionally when I get physically sick (my brain is weird, lol), so I'm really curious to see if nicotine will help the next time it hits. I think there's a reason that so many people "self-medicate" with alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs-- they work! As far as I understand it, the main reason that healthcare professionals worry about addiction is because of the dangers to a person's liver, lungs, brain, etc., which, for cigarettes, comes from the additives, not the nicotine. However, laypeople seem to have taken up the fight for doctors without understanding what the doctors are actually concerned about. Oh well.

That's not to say vaping is without risks... but it certainly seems a lot safer than the scary drugs I've been on so far! I'll gladly take vaping over Parkinson's disease, especially since the former works a million times better for me.

Heck, when I think of some of the "helpful" meds I have taken and some of the fantastic long term side effects they have given me (like lithium, which ended up making part of my kidney non-functional), well. Sure, all drugs have risks. So does caffeine, and nobody is going to start lecturing about that one, even though nicotine and caffeine are remarkably similar. It's a given that *no one* wants to have to take drugs for anything unless they are in them only for a high, but that is just not always the case. My dad was bipolar and alcoholic. Did alcohol kill him; did a combination of alcohol and his psych meds kill him? Did his heavy smoking kill him (no, he was only 41 and that was pretty much the only part of him that wasn't pickled). The inability to deal with life killed my dad, and if he had been more willing to try more things, who knows how things would have worked out. I say, the more you know, the more power you have, and the more ideas you can try. =)

I hope everything works out for you, and hope to see you around the ecf a lot. =)
 

StormFinch

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I think we should also take into account that a number of FDA approved medications, some for the exact same problems that the OP mentioned, are most definitely addictive and have much more serious side effects involved than nicotine from a non burning source. Ritalin and it's cousins are often mentioned in terms of addictiveness in the same sentence as a certain powder and amphetamines, the latter of which they are related to. All anti-depressants carry black box warnings. Two of those meds are Paxil and Effexor, both of which probably should have been removed from the market years ago if the FDA wasn't trying to protect their Pharma buddies. So basically, which addiction would you really recommend a person take up? How well do you actually trust the FDA and Big Pharma now that we've had to fight for years to use something myriads of times safer than tobacco cigarettes?
 

Who-dat

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Can't speak to depression, but I know a bit about ADHD. We all started out as hunter-gatherers, but most turned to the plow, with the dawn of agriculture. Some, however, retained the hunter-gatherer aptitude. And we're the ones who are ADHD. While big Pharma is quick to label it, along with restless-leg disorder, as an ailment requiring meds, I see it as a personality-type.

Two good books on the subject are 'Driven to Distraction' and 'Delivered from Distraction'. The 1st is about recognizing you are the type, and the 2nd is about adapting to it. Most ADHD-types can lead happy & very successful lives, if we embrace our personality, rather than try to make ourselves fit into jobs & lives we aren't well suited to. There are some jobs we just won't do well, unless heavily-medicated and generally miserable (eg. we make horrible accountants). There are others that are perfect for us. My field, for example, is almost exclusively staffed by ADHD-types to the extend that it's used to describe the types of candidates we're looking for.

Regarding meds, like many, I've lived most of my life unknowingly self-medicating. ADHD types are drawn to the "ines".. caffeine, nicotine, amphetamines, etc. They hit us a bit differently that they do most, enabling us to relax & focus, vs. making us hyper. This is, of course, in moderation. Sometimes they can be useful when we need to focus on detailed and/or boring stuff, but regulating their effect is tricky. Most ADHD meds are basically amphetamines, in controlled time-released dosages. Having tried the med route, I found it a useful tool for some work situations, but it negatively impacted my natural gift for juggling lots of things under pressure.

For me, I've found that moderate doses of caffeine work best. A tiny bit wakes me up (like everyone else), a bit more relaxes me (unlike most people), and enables me to really focus. Too much and I'm jumpy, like everyone else. Nicotine is unreliable for this purpose, with lots of peaks and valleys. Besides, as you develop a tolerance for it, you'd probably have to vape non-stop, to get the effects you're looking for. Combined with caffeine and/or your other meds, it can cause you to swing all over the map. So no, I would never suggest that anyone pick up vaping/smoking, as a means of self-medicating ADHD. Try experimenting with coffee... small and deliberate doses. Get to the point where you start to feel relaxed, and try to keep that up. That's my experience, anyhow.

I saw one doctor describe it as having a Ferrari engine for a brain, with bicycle brakes... LOL. And America is full of people with this type of personality. A big chunk of our population is descended from people who were restlessly bored with the status of things in their native lands, and jumped at the opportunity to start a new adventure. Many were entrepreneurs and innovators, who couldn't sit still for long. In many ways, America is an ADHD nation. I like to think that this is one of the reasons we've been so successful, thus far. So, the way I see it, you are far from disabled.

And, when you need to sit down and focus on that boring and/or tedious stuff, there are better ways to self medicate than embracing a new addiction.


Oh, and I'm pretty sure that ADHD accounts for a lot of the posts on this, and other, forums... LOL
 
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cookiebun

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This is true. The new DSM-IV has weakened the standards for diagnosing depression... the old anti-depressants had to be effective on severely depressed people. The new anti-depressants are considered to be 'as effective' as the old ones, but they got that reputation by being effective for a whole new class of depressed people.

If you REALLY want to blow your mind when it comes to anti-depressants, check out Tianeptine. Tianeptine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its works exactly opposite to SSRIs, its as effective as SSRIs, and it has more tolerable side effects.

Interesting, thanks for the link and info.
I'm afraid I need the sedating side effects of Imipramine, it helps me sleep like normal people do.
 

cookiebun

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I think we should also take into account that a number of FDA approved medications, some for the exact same problems that the OP mentioned, are most definitely addictive and have much more serious side effects involved than nicotine from a non burning source. Ritalin and it's cousins are often mentioned in terms of addictiveness in the same sentence as a certain powder and amphetamines, the latter of which they are related to. All anti-depressants carry black box warnings. Two of those meds are Paxil and Effexor, both of which probably should have been removed from the market years ago if the FDA wasn't trying to protect their Pharma buddies. So basically, which addiction would you really recommend a person take up? How well do you actually trust the FDA and Big Pharma now that we've had to fight for years to use something myriads of times safer than tobacco cigarettes?

I took part in a clinical trial for Paxil before it was released on the market.
As far as I'm concerned it's useless. My doctor thought so too.
 

Jack Murray

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I took part in a clinical trial for Paxil before it was released on the market.
As far as I'm concerned it's useless. My doctor thought so too.

Me too. #1 side effect for me: immediate projectile vomiting. o_O No can do!! =D

also, Seroquel, it dulls your body's ability to tell when it's full. Result: 60 lb weight gain. I have lost most of it over a year and a half, but no one can tell me that's better for me than *not* having that happen. =)
 
There have also been some studies that show that nicotine (specifically smoking) helps Parkinson's symptoms.

Of course no doctor in the world would ever prescribe cigarettes, however now that there is a "not going to kill you stone dead" way of ingesting nicotine (other than the gum and patch and such - they don't seem to work as well), researchers are starting to look more into it.
 

stillalive

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I think we should also take into account that a number of FDA approved medications, some for the exact same problems that the OP mentioned, are most definitely addictive and have much more serious side effects involved than nicotine from a non burning source. Ritalin and it's cousins are often mentioned in terms of addictiveness in the same sentence as a certain powder and amphetamines, the latter of which they are related to. All anti-depressants carry black box warnings. Two of those meds are Paxil and Effexor, both of which probably should have been removed from the market years ago if the FDA wasn't trying to protect their Pharma buddies. So basically, which addiction would you really recommend a person take up? How well do you actually trust the FDA and Big Pharma now that we've had to fight for years to use something myriads of times safer than tobacco cigarettes?

Effexor is actually the one I'm on now, but at a low dose. I'm getting results without too many side effects, but I'm terrified to hit the side effects and not be able to take it anymore. It's the only one that I've been able to tolerate that's also actually done something, and I'll take any help I can get these days!

Just wondering, does anyone with ADD/ADHD take forever making decisions? I didn't used to take so long and do some much research, but after years and years of regretting impulsive decisions, sometimes I can't even make a decision about what I want now. >_< Figuring out which PV I wanted was a mix of the two... I figured out what I wanted through loads of research but ended up making an impulse buy in the end. Hopefully I'll still be happy with it! Sigh.
 
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xerais

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If you want to smoke, or vape, or anything else, have fun and enjoy it. We don't live forever, most of the things I enjoy are bad for me.

I find it repulsive that people's concerns over whether a non-smoker decides to pick up vaping is based on the action somehow justifying the arguments of the "anti" e-cig crowd. I could care less. I'm so sick of basing my decisions on what other people think, or the nanny state telling me what is or isn't good for me.
 

AllYourBase

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If you want to smoke, or vape, or anything else, have fun and enjoy it. We don't live forever, most of the things I enjoy are bad for me.

I find it repulsive that people's concerns over whether a non-smoker decides to pick up vaping is based on the action somehow justifying the arguments of the "anti" e-cig crowd. I could care less. I'm so sick of basing my decisions on what other people think, or the nanny state telling me what is or isn't good for me.

Good post. I agree.

I say, if it feels good, do it!
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