Never thought I'd start a thread like this...

[Nogy]

My sister in law also now vapes 0 nic juice because of her health insurance rules. I'll just say she wasn't happy about it, and that I avoided hanging around her house for a couple weeks.

As for me, ain't gonna happen. I'm at 6 mg and have absolutely no plans of lowering it anytime soon, if ever. I quit cigarettes because of the four thousand some odd other chemicals in them, not because of the nic. I've got enough problems in my life already, don't need to add nicotine withdrawal to my list.

 

[DC2]

How much do you miss the nic DC? Are you noticeably edgier?

I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever.

But remember, I was only going through about 1.5ml per day of 12mg.
So I wasn't really using THAT much nicotine anyway.

But it was enough to set off the urine tests.
And it did take two weeks for the tests to come back clean.

 

[Vchick]

Does anyone know what results are if using a nic patch or gum? If needed can you use that argument?

 

[DC2]

Does anyone know what results are if using a nic patch or gum?

You would test positive for nicotine.

If needed can you use that argument?

Once the dust settles at work, and if I'm still employed...
Then I will ask them about indefinite use of nicotine gum...

After all, the FDA has already published guidance that it is okay to use long term...
Federal Register | Modifications To Labeling of Nicotine Replacement Therapy Products for Over-the-Counter Human Use

In the years since NRT products became available for OTC use, a number of studies have examined the use of NRT products over periods longer than 12 weeks. We have reviewed the published literature on this longer-term use of NRT products and have not identified any safety risks associated with such use.

We also note that although any nicotine-containing product has the potential to be addicting, based on the available evidence, currently marketed OTC NRT products do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence.

 

[DaveP]

My company used to offer a $200 yearly discount for non-smokers. I paid that and my premium would be virtually the same as everyone else.

When I retired, that continued. The company was self insured, kept the payout pot full of money, and hired an insurance company to manage claims.

Retirees got the same deal until the ACA hit. Suddenly, my $600 a month premium jumped to $900 and this year it became $1558 a month once they dumped retirees into Obamacare instead of the company health insurance pool.

This year I was eligible to switch to Medicare. My supplement policy for hospitalization costs $140 a month and includes drug coverage. I didn't buy the supplemental coverage for part B doctor visits because it's cheaper to pay the 20% than pay for part B coverage. If my health changes I can add Part B supplemental coverage. Many doctors accept assignment (the 80%) and write off the 20%, anyway.

Something's gotta change with health insurance. My wife's policy charges her for things she will never need. It contains coverage for child care, maternity, and a host of things she will never need at her age. That's how the ACA is able to provide discounts to those eligible for them. They charge some people for unneeded coverage and use the money to reduce rates on the lower income tier. It's a documented fact.

 

[celticluvr]

But what would happen if you went off binge eating a food that has nicotine in it, like say tomatoes? Cuz I eat them like apples.

Wouldn't that register on a urine test? So couldn't a non tobacco/nicotine user get slammed with nicotine use? Just curious.

 

[crxess]

But what would happen if you went off binge eating a food that has nicotine in it, like say tomatoes? Cuz I eat them like apples.

Wouldn't that register on a urine test? So couldn't a non tobacco/nicotine user get slammed with nicotine use? Just curious.

Not at a high enough score to indicate (POSSIBLE) Smoking intake.

This is simply one more Profit/Tax Scan and not controllable or changeable by the MINORITY.

 

[DaveP]

But what would happen if you went off binge eating a food that has nicotine in it, like say tomatoes? Cuz I eat them like apples.

Wouldn't that register on a urine test? So couldn't a non tobacco/nicotine user get slammed with nicotine use? Just curious.

The acceptable ranges in the tests are calibrated to allow for food intake of nic. They can even show nic in your blood from second hand smoke. That's in the baseline value, too. As long as you are below the baseline value you aren't considered a smoker.

I ordered a pack of nic tests from Amazon, but I haven't tried them yet. There's a thread on ECF that was started by DC2 (I think). He tried starting 0mg and then testing every day. He flunked all the way up to day 10 or so and had to order more tests to continue.

 

[rideronthistrain]

It boggles my mind that employers and insurance companies are testing nicotine levels. Nicotine is not what harms smokers and is a close cousin to caffeine. Are they testing caffeine levels? I think not. So they must assume if you have nicotine in your system that you are a smoker. Vaping is not smoking! Typical tobacco control propaganda.

 

[Mazinny]

It boggles my mind that employers and insurance companies are testing nicotine levels. Nicotine is not what harms smokers and is a close cousin to caffeine. Are they testing caffeine levels? I think not. So they must assume if you have nicotine in your system that you are a smoker. Vaping is not smoking! Typical tobacco control propaganda.

The vast majority of people with nicotine in their system smoke. I don't know if there is a way to test for smoking, outside of nicotine testing. Curious if anyone knows actually.

 

[daviedog]

Co2 was considered a controlled substance by the Govt. Affirmed by the Supreme Court about 3 years ago.
Nicotine? Why wouldn't insurance co surcharge. Wouldn't you pick up money you found on the floor?
Whats really scary is the coming Co2 surcharges. "Good Sir, How much did you exhale today? We need this for our dossiers."..

 

[tearose50]

This is a very sad but very good example how the big trend of equating smoking to vaping is bonkers.

I'm sure you'll do fine DC2 and I hope some more long term Zero Nic Vapers show up here for you. I've only done so a few times for other reasons....and am happily vaping 3 and 6mg now.

 

[DC2]

There's a thread on ECF that was started by DC2 (I think). He tried starting 0mg and then testing every day. He flunked all the way up to day 10 or so and had to order more tests to continue.

Yes indeed, and here's the thread...
Cotinine testing - Day three of zero nicotine

The vast majority of people with nicotine in their system smoke. I don't know if there is a way to test for smoking, outside of nicotine testing. Curious if anyone knows actually.

Carbon Monoxide testing...
CO Breath Test – Breath tests for CO – Carbon monoxide breath testers from Breathe EZ.

 

[rideronthistrain]

The vast majority of people with nicotine in their system smoke. I don't know if there is a way to test for smoking, outside of nicotine testing. Curious if anyone knows actually.

That may or may not be true today since only 16.8% of the US population smokes as of 2014. Nicotine levels are purely circumstantial when deeming that someone smokes. But I suppose most insurance companies conclude that if you vape, you smoke.

 

[Robino1]

What totally sucks, they are testing for something that is a legal substance.

I could understand if it were an illegal substance but not when it is not illegal to buy or use.

 

[Mazinny]

What totally sucks, they are testing for something that is a legal substance.

I could understand if it were an illegal substance but not when it is not illegal to buy or use.

It sucks, but private employers are free to set their own hiring standards, as long as they aren't discriminating based on gender, religion, etc ...

In addition to higher insurance costs, i imagine part of their reasoning is that they would rather employees not take cigarette breaks every hour.

 

[Mazinny]

That may or may not be true today since only 16.8% of the US population smokes as of 2014. Nicotine levels are purely circumstantial when deeming that someone smokes. But I suppose most insurance companies conclude that if you vape, you smoke.

Oh it's still true. That 16.8 % is still alot higher than vapers, even more so if you not count dual users.

 

[lemans81]

My work has done everything in its power to shot smoking/vaping(they consider them the same thing). Like at this location they removed the exit door and put a policy that won't allow you to "walk out", you can drive your car out or wait for someone else to leave to open the gate but otherwise you are out of luck. At the other building you have to walk a block away to smoke, and you have to attend a quarterly meeting on why smoking is bad. Work for a large health insurance company...best I not share who.

 

[rico942]

At the last place I worked, on a slow day HR would review the door logs (badge swipe for both entry and exit), and do random interrogations questioning every exit during working hours. Smoke breaks were recorded and used as negative input in performance reviews, but cell phone calls were not ...

Not a Fire Marshal issue, as the doors were not technically locked, they had emergency push bars. Those would set off a very loud alarm klaxon ...

Not a happy place, I'm delighted to be retired now ...

But I still have to listen (with sympathy) when I see one of my former co-workers, relating stories of even more oppressive policies ...

 

[Racehorse]

I no longer vape nicotine.

I made the mistake of using some 6mg a few weeks ago though, and it "set me up" for a severe nicotine/cig craving, for the first time in almost 4 years.....so I am happily back to zero nic and all my cravings have gone away again.

It was really weird how just using a little nicotine seemed to trigger this nicotine dependency all over again. So I guess that's how it is for me.