New AW Cells

[DaveP]

It's wonderful to see someone so knowledgeable with batteries posting here, I hope you continue to do so SK4477 - Now getting right to the point, I know AW used be really good but honestly I expected better than those results, in my eyes that is pretty poor performance for a 2200mah battery at 20A.

And again the 12A 800mah 18350 shows poor high drain performance, the Tensai is destroying it!

Seems to me that AW is falling behind, I'm waiting eagerly to see some new test results on another batch of those cells!

AW has been my battery of choice for years, but lately I'm also seeing more bang for the buck in other high drain LiMn brands. If the choice is $9.99 for one that lasts longer in a 2.5A application than the $14.99 brand, it's a no brainer. I'm really happy with my Efest 2250mah LiMn batts. The EH's are proving to be about equal to the Efests and suspiciously similar in appearance. There are some who suggest that the EH batts are re-wrapped Sony batts, especially the 60A max rated black 2100mah high drain which is said to be a VCT4.

The battery business seems to be getting more convoluted these days.

 

[Kemosabe]

AW has been my battery of choice for years, but lately I'm also seeing more bang for the buck in other high drain LiMn brands. If the choice is $9.99 for one that lasts longer in a 2.5A application than the $14.99 brand, it's a no brainer. I'm really happy with my Efest 2250mah LiMn batts. The EH's are proving to be about equal to the Efests and suspiciously similar in appearance. There are some who suggest that the EH batts are re-wrapped Sony batts, especially the 60A max rated black 2100mah high drain which is said to be a VCT4.

The battery business seems to be getting more convoluted these days.

i agree. and ive heard (read) the same thing regarding the EH being a re-wrapped VTC4. i almost want to buy one just to tear the label off. ive got a ton of wrapper material so i might just do it.

EDIT: here is where i read it:

EH (SONY) 60A 2100mAh IMR 18650 battery

 

[DaveP]

I've added (preliminary) results for the 3 new AW

IMR 18350-800
IMR 18490-1200
IMR 18650-2200

to my database here: AkkuDB

(Caveat: I only had a single cell per size to test and am waiting for additinal cells to get some more results)

Page bookmarked for future reference ... Good Info!

 

[DaveP]

i agree. and ive heard (read) the same thing regarding the EH being a re-wrapped VTC4. i almost want to buy one just to tear the label off. ive got a ton of wrapper material so i might just do it.

EDIT: here is where i read it:

EH (SONY) 60A 2100mAh IMR 18650 battery

Yep, that's where I got my info. I threw away an Efest 2250 mah batt the other day after wrapping it in a paper towel and putting it into a ziplock snack bag to prevent shorts (I probably should have dropped it off at the Batteries Plus store). The wrapper was cracked on the plus end and ripped from taking it in and out of the charger. It looked like the button end of the tube would soon be exposed. Now, I wish I had ripped the cover off to see if it had Panasonic markings.

I'm vaping one of my new EH 2250mah 18650's in my Provari right now. I installed it early last night. It's 11am now (next day) and it just hit 3.7v. I've probably got another hour before it hits 3.5v. That will be about 12 hours of vaping.

 

[Jimi D.]

Hey Dave, All you need is a hair dryer. Simple fix for the future.

18650 Battery PVC Wrap Black (Pre-cut, 10 Pieces) - Batteries, Chargers, and PowerPax Carriers

 

[Morandir835]

Getting together all my results on the AW 2200mah IMR cells, should have it all together and graphed on Friday. Will say had much different results than sk447 sir....

 

[sk4477]

Interesting. Can't wait to see your results - cause i am a bit disappointed with my results. Ok, very disappointed infact.

 

[Morandir835]

Little behind on getting them together, had a few things come up. Apologize for the delay.

 

[Morandir835]

Here's the chart, did a grand total of 5 runs on each battery (2 cells) at their respective amp draw and averaged out the numbers from them. Both performed very close to each other with a .03v +/- in all the testing. Very similar to the Sony VCT4's test that I did almost 9 months ago. Will run them through the paces again after 100 charges. Am currently doing the same with the 18490 and 18350 new AW cells. All cells came off the charger at 4.186 with an xtar sp2 @ .5a current. Ran them to 3.0v in testing.

 

[Roccov]

Thanks for the data and the effort Sir! Enjoy the day!

 

[sk4477]

Very interesting indeed. Theres a world of difference there. Not only in my Junsi iCharger results but also in the results gained from tje CBA IV. Thanks for posting these.

 

[sk4477]

I got a fresh AW 18650-2200 in today, from one of germanys official resellers for AW - as confirmed by Andrew W.

While marginally better, the results still are nowhere near as good as Morandirs. I wish I could say otherwise, but thats what I get. I've checked calibration of the CBA IV as well the the calibration of both Junsi iChargers, all are within usual specs. The CBA is within 0,02V at 20A.

Orange is the cell I got today, purple is the cell I initially tested. greens are sony vtc4/5 for comparison.



This bugs me on so many different levels: first of all, there shouldn't be such a huge difference between those two AW cells in this chart. If AW had one thing going, they performed almost identical at all times. Next: the results are still disappointing. Not sure what to think here.

I guess its pointless to order a 3rd cell from the same source, so if anybody knows any other european reseller who already has the new cells in stock.. ?

 

[Roccov]

How many charge cycles did you run them through before doing the test? Enjoy the day![emoji6]

 

[sk4477]

Orange curve is 3rd cycle, first 2 cycles get automatically pitched, The others are usually between cycle 6 to 8 at this point,

If at all, the orange curve with less "priming" should be worse than the purple. (So much for the effect of priming on this particular cell.) Meanwhile the new cell has another 2 cycles on its belt, I might redo another 20A discharge tonite, but i am not holding my breath anymore, from everything i've seen so far: no priming will elevate this to a level to rival a vtc4.

 

[sando7]

i wish i could understand the chart but i don't.

 

[Mtek]

I got a fresh AW 18650-2200 in today, from one of germanys official resellers for AW - as confirmed by Andrew W.

Orange is the cell I got today, purple is the cell I initially tested. greens are sony vtc4/5 for comparison.

Have you ever seen variance like this with the VTCs or other brands/models? The graph shows there not as good as Sony, but the variance tells me their is qc issues going on, in my opinion this is worse.

 

[Morandir835]

Mtek (sir or Ms.?) that's a complicated answer. Can tell you in my personal testing have seen a huge variance in testing a battery right away after receiving it and testing it after 5-10 cycles. Have also seen variances after that break in period from cell to cell, INR chemistry being the ones with the worse history, and certain rebranded companies offerings also being guilty (AW has never had a history in the 48 some cells I have personally owned tested, but another well known brand saw quite a lot of variance from cell to cell). When I went to test Sony VCT4's there was little difference between them (all performed within .5% of each other), but on the VCT5's had one that was a "dud". It was out performed by it's brethren by quite a large margin (underperforming by >25%), all 4 were from the same vendor and all were legit and purchased at the same time. It does happen, but the question is how often. Based on my very limited data could say one in eight Sony cells were bad, but know that number to be false (otherwise it would be a very known issue). It's why nothing should be based on a small sample size.....

 

[Randy C]

I just ordered 4- AW IMR 18650 2200s from Randy yesterday. I've been quite happy with the 2000s in my Provari, but always felt they weren't optimal in my Reo Grand. I've never tried any other battery but the 2000.
My Reo Grand is on its way back... I had it rebuilt with the new contacts Rob upgraded to. I'm hoping my Grand rocks with new gold contacts and 2200s

 

[DaveP]

AW's reputation has always been one of a vendor who tests and skims the cream from a crop of bulk batteries and wholesales the rest. That ensured the customer that they could depend on slightly better specs from an AW battery. Seems that other re-branding vendors are doing similar things with two or three vendor sources for stock. Actual battery manufacturers aren't that numerous, but vendors are pretty plentiful.

 

[HBcorpse]

AW's reputation has always been one of a vendor who tests and skims the cream from a crop of bulk batteries and wholesales the rest. That ensured the customer that they could depend on slightly better specs from an AW battery. Seems that other branding vendors are doing similar things with two or three vendor sources for stock. Actual battery manufacturers aren't that numerous, but vendors are pretty plentiful.

Yeah aren't there only like 3 or 4 actual battery manufacturing plants in the world?
I know the Tesla car company is trying to build a new one in the US, but it hasn't happened yet. I hope it does though...that company stands to be one of the leading forces in battery technology advancement for our future...
I'd love an 18350 that can last as long as an 18650...c'mon future!!! Get here already!!! Hahahaha!!!!

EDIT: I know Tesla would be making batteries for cars, but that doesn't mean their knowledge won't advance battery tech across the board!