New Variable Voltage device from smoktech?

[skipdashu]

You can check out the battery graphs on most of the flashlight forums but to summarize and generalize:

1) The lower amperage demand you put on your battery the more mAh it will do (run time goes up).

2) The lower the amperage demand you put on your battery the more likely that battery is to give you more charge/discharge cycles over it's lifetime.

IF I get time later today I'll run a fully charged IMR 18350 battery down at 1A and then run it down at .5A to demonstrate the run time / mAh (#1 above).

UpDate1: I found some old numbers on a Li-Ion 18500. At 1.5A discharge (done a couple months ago) the batt produced 1315mA but at a 1A discharge today it produced 1334mA. Not huge but the battery is older now and it illustrates the point.

UpDate2: I charged an old 14500 to 4.22v in a TR-003P4 and put it on my IMaxB6AC hobby charger with it set to discharge at a 1A rate down to 3.0v. Resulted in around 30 minutes (forgot to write that down) and 469ma being discharged.

Yes, I know this is a crappy battery. I picked it to shorten the time spent on this.

UpDate3: Recharged the same battery to 4.22v again and set the IMaxB6 to discharge at 0.5 amps. I give up. It's been discharging for 70 minutes, has disgorged 583 mA and is still at 3.49v. I need to move onto other battery things so am calling this point made.

 

[donnah]

So in this review it is suggested that maybe the voltage calibrations are wrong. I wonder if future versions of this device will have the same calibrations or not. It's easy to see that many love that the device is producing a more 'higher voltage feel' than what the device says the voltage is. After watching the review.. it's easy to see where the terms "beast" and "monster" apply. I'm just wondering.. are the calibrations really wrong? Or is the device meant to be this way? If it's "wrong" then I can see where the version 1 would very quickly become a collector's item when subsequent versions tone down the voltage and have it more in line with what's showing on the led readout.

I too see no reason for a LR carto to purposely be used on a device like this. I had some LR cartos and used them on my vv devices only because I had so many (left over from my 3.7 days)and was trying to use them up.. also at the time I loved how the resurrectors performed (and fit) in a tank. Since the new longer boges came out I'll not order anything lower than 2.5ohm (or the resurrectors) again.

In further versions of this device, I hope that (whether or not they recalibrate the voltage readout) they will consider having the device reset to the lowest setting (or better yet.. remember what the set voltage was) instead of 5v.. I can see where there could be a lot of popped attys and burnt cartos by people forgetting to lower the voltage every time they change batts.

 

[John D in CT]

I have seen suggestions that SR on a VV will tax the batt less, and possibly help the atty last longer too?

I'd have to think "yes" on both, although more enthusiastically on battery life/performance than on atty life.

On the battery part of it, I think it probably has a lot to do with amp draw.

On single-coil attys (for simplicity, and "eff" dual coils anyway ....)

4v x 4v / 2.0 ohms = 8 watts @ 2.0 amps

5V x 5V / 3.0 ohms = 8 1/3 watts @ 1.66 amps

This is like European household current. At 220, the same watts require fewer amps, and they can use smaller wire.

I'm still not crystal-clear on why a battery is happier putting out fewer amps if the same number of watts are being drawn, but maybe someone can help me out with that.

 

[MickeyRat]

So in this review it is suggested that maybe the voltage calibrations are wrong. I wonder if future versions of this device will have the same calibrations or not. It's easy to see that many love that the device is producing a more 'higher voltage feel' than what the device says the voltage is. After watching the review.. it's easy to see where the terms "beast" and "monster" apply. I'm just wondering.. are the calibrations really wrong? Or is the device meant to be this way? If it's "wrong" then I can see where the version 1 would very quickly become a collector's item when subsequent versions tone down the voltage and have it more in line with what's showing on the led readout.

I too see no reason for a LR carto to purposely be used on a device like this. I had some LR cartos and used them on my vv devices only because I had so many (left over from my 3.7 days)and was trying to use them up.. also at the time I loved how the resurrectors performed (and fit) in a tank. Since the new longer boges came out I'll not order anything lower than 2.5ohm (or the resurrectors) again.

In further versions of this device, I hope that (whether or not they recalibrate the voltage readout) they will consider having the device reset to the lowest setting (or better yet.. remember what the set voltage was) instead of 5v.. I can see where there could be a lot of popped attys and burnt cartos by people forgetting to lower the voltage every time they change batts.

My interpretation of the video says that the calibration isn't actually wrong. It's accurately displaying the mean voltage. However, because it's PWM (Power Wave Modulated) rather than continuous voltage, a mean of 3V feels like 4.2V. My main concern about this from watching the video is that you can't get anything that resembles 3.7V on it.

I think they have some kinks to iron out on this one before I'm really interested. I'd really prefer an LCD rather than an LED display. At a minimum, you need to be able to turn the display off. It also needs to be able to get down to something that feels like 3.7V. I'd like it to be calibrated to something that resembles continuous voltage but, that doesn't bother me all that much. I can figure out where I want it.

 

[John D in CT]

My interpretation of the video says that the calibration isn't actually wrong. It's accurately displaying the mean voltage. However, because it's PWM (Power Wave Modulated) rather than continuous voltage, a mean of 3V feels like 4.2V. My main concern about this from watching the video is that you can't get anything that resembles 3.7V on it.

I think they have some kinks to iron out on this one before I'm really interested. I'd really prefer an LCD rather than an LED display. At a minimum, you need to be able to turn the display off. It also needs to be able to get down to something that feels like 3.7V. I'd like it to be calibrated to something that resembles continuous voltage but, that doesn't bother me all that much. I can figure out where I want it.

OMG, write this date on your calendars people, cuz I think I'm actually be able to correct something that Mickey said, for the first time ever. (Dood knows his Shiites from his Sunnis).

I think "PWM" is Pulse Width Modulation.

As for "getting the bugs worked out", I think one man's "bug" can be another man's "awesome feature". No, the VMax doesn't seem to like idling, but keep the revs up with a high-res attachment and open 'er up. And I think that it approximates 3.7 very closely at its "3.0".

Just get one of these sick little blowtorches. Way cool.

 

[MickeyRat]

OMG, write this date on your calendars people, cuz I think I'm actually be able to correct something that Mickey said, for the first time ever. (Dood knows his Shiites from his Sunnis).

I think "PWM" is Pulse Width Modulation.

As for "getting the bugs worked out", I think one man's "bug" can be another man's "awesome feature". No, the VMax doesn't seem to like idling, but keep the revs up with a high-res attachment and open 'er up. And I think that it approximates 3.7 very closely at its "3.0".

Just get one of these sick little blowtorches. Way cool.

LOL!!! You're right!!! Didn't sound right when I wrote it. Don't know what I was thinkin'.

You're a good guy and all but, I hope you'll forgive me if I think Brasardo might be a better judge of where 3.7V feels than you are.

I'm not in the market for anything like this at the moment. I have to absorb the expense of the VV Woodvil I got a week ago and I'm trying to get in on a genesis coop. My mod money's spent for a while. So, I can wait for the V2.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

I'll probably pick one up when it comes down under $75. The only other device besides my Provari I'm spending over a $100 on is a Darwin.

 

[John D in CT]

LOL!!! You're right!!! Didn't sound right when I wrote it. Don't know what I was thinkin'.

You're a good guy and all but, I hope you'll forgive me if I think Brasardo might be a better judge of where 3.7V feels than you are.

I'm not in the market for anything like this at the moment. I have to absorb the expense of the VV Woodvil I got a week ago and I'm trying to get in on a genesis coop. My mod money's spent for a while. So, I can wait for the V2.

OK, I'll have to re-watch JDBusardo's vid to refresh my memory on exactly what he said Vmax@3.0 equates to on a Provari. His assessment of that might have been a little more on the "seat of the pants"/subjective side than purely scientific, but certainly not trying to match my credentials to his. (Not yet, anyway)

Forgot to add in my last post that as I've said, I totally agree with you and "Brasardo" that not being able to turn off the main display is stoooooooooopid.

["So, I can wait for the V2". You're referring to the V2Max, right?] lol

 

[MickeyRat]

OK, I'll have to re-watch JDBusardo's vid to refresh my memory on exactly what he said Vmax@3.0 equates to on a Provari. His assessment of that might have been a little more on the "seat of the pants"/subjective side than purely scientific, but certainly not trying to match my credentials to his. (Not yet, anyway)

Well I just watched it this morning. It absolutely was subjective. I'm not sure there's any other way to do it. As I said the voltmeter on the Vmax isn't wrong but, the experience doesn't match the continuous voltage. He vaped the Vmax on 3.0 and the Provari on 4.2 and said it felt about the same.

Forgot to add in my last post that as I've said, I totally agree with you and "Brasardo" that not being able to turn off the main display is stoooooooooopid.

I really think LCD would be a lot cooler but, you really need to be able to turn it off regardless.

["So, I can wait for the V2". You're referring to the V2Max, right?] lol

Yes but, I'm not likely to be in the market for another VV device for a while. I already have a Buzz Pro and a VV Woodvil. No need for a while.

 

[sailorman]

I just finished watching Pbusardo's review of the Vmax. It finally showed for me at Taste Your Juice.

Great review, as usual with Phil but why spend so much time with a 2.2 LR carto on this review? If I wanted to spend bucks on on a VV I'd want to know how it handles SR and especially DCC? I'd feel a bit silly spending the money for a Provari or VMax and then using it for LR cartos that I can run on my E-Power 14650 for a fraction of the cost.

I think Pbusardo does that for consistency and dramatic effect when he asks you to listen for the sizzle. To do the same demo, he'd have had to show the Vmax at 4.5V and the Provari at 6V with a 3.0 carto. Bottom line is, you're right. There is no place for LR cartos on a VV PV. Which is one reason the 2.5A limiter on the LT never particularly bothered me.

Personally, I disagree with those who feel it's some kind of benefit that the Vmax vapes the same at 3V as the Provari does at 4V. (or whatever). They need to tune this thing better. Otherwise, they might as well just have a 1-30 numeric scale and forget the whole voltage metric altogether. As it is, you get a loaded voltage far below the indicated one, and that loaded voltage doesn't mean anything anyway. Just replace the dang thing with "P" for "Power" and be done with it.

 

[MickeyRat]

Personally, I disagree with those who feel it's some kind of benefit that the Vmax vapes the same at 3V as the Provari does at 4V. (or whatever). They need to tune this thing better. Otherwise, they might as well just have a 1-30 numeric scale and forget the whole voltage metric altogether. As it is, you get a loaded voltage far below the indicated one, and that loaded voltage doesn't mean anything anyway. Just replace the dang thing with "P" for "Power" and be done with it.

I agree with you completely and really since it's a subjective measure on this mod a number that just says power really makes more sense. Of course, I'm the guy that thinks all displays are just for impressing the tourists and all you need is a knob.

 

[sailorman]

Well I just watched it this morning. It absolutely was subjective. I'm not sure there's any other way to do it. As I said the voltmeter on the Vmax isn't wrong but, the experience doesn't match the continuous voltage. He vaped the Vmax on 3.0 and the Provari on 4.2 and said it felt about the same....

Yeah, there's no other way to do it. Even if it matched the Provari at 3.0 to 4.2, what happens at 4V? The loaded voltage is liable to be as low as 3.2 or 3.4V. Yet it matches 5.2 on the Provari? What's up with that? Is it feeding 5.8V pulses to the coil 38% of the time? The actual loaded voltage graph is ridiculous. What the hell is it measuring anyway? Just scrap the voltage scale. It's totally meaningless and worthless to anyone. It tells you absolutely nothing except in relative terms to that machine and that machine only. Do I really want to blast a 2ohm carto with pulses of 5.6V when I have my machine set at 4V? Is this a plot by Smok to sell more carto's? No wonder it has a high current limiter.

 

[John D in CT]

I think Pbusardo does that for consistency and dramatic effect when he asks you to listen for the sizzle. To do the same demo, he'd have had to show the Vmax at 4.5V and the Provari at 6V with a 3.0 carto. Bottom line is, you're right. There is no place for LR cartos on a VV PV. Which is one reason the 2.5A limiter on the LT never particularly bothered me.

Personally, I disagree with those who feel it's some kind of benefit that the Vmax vapes the same at 3V as the Provari does at 4V. (or whatever). They need to tune this thing better. Otherwise, they might as well just have a 1-30 numeric scale and forget the whole voltage metric altogether. As it is, you get a loaded voltage far below the indicated one, and that loaded voltage doesn't mean anything anyway. Just replace the dang thing with "P" for "Power" and be done with it.

Dittos on everything you said, but just one point I'd like to make on the bolded part. I'm not saying it's a categorical benefit that the voltage settings are alien to what everyone is used to; far from it. But I still do see a possible benefit to possible higher total "coil motivation" than even a ProVari can put out at its maximum, and even this is a very slim, and not terribly earth-shaking one, and is only a benefit if it's true that higher resistance equates to a better vape, assuming that the coils can be warmed sufficiently.

With a 5.0 ohm single coil atty, the VMax would seem to be able to get the coil warmer than a ProVari, or I suppose most/all other (nominal) "6 volt" devices. If it's the case that six "normal" volts = seven "VMax" volts, then (voltage drop notwithstanding):

7 volts x 7 volts / 5 ohms = 9.8 watts, where a device putting out 6 volts would be at:

6 volts x 6 volts / 5 ohms = 7.2 watts. Maybe not quite enough for some juices/users.

As I said, not a huge benefit, but a possible, slight one.

I'm pretty much with Mickey anyway, when he says "Of course, I'm the guy that thinks all displays are just for impressing the tourists and all you need is a knob".

That said, I still think it's kinda cool that the VMax "goes up to 11".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

"Spinal Tap - 11" - a classic

 

[skipdashu]

I just finished watching Pbusardo's review of the Vmax. It finally showed for me at Taste Your Juice.

Great review, as usual with Phil but why spend so much time with a 2.2 LR carto on this review? If I wanted to spend bucks on on a VV I'd want to know how it handles SR and especially DCC? I'd feel a bit silly spending the money for a Provari or VMax and then using it for LR cartos that I can run on my E-Power 14650 for a fraction of the cost.

Yea, seems a little silly. Also the diff he's seeing between voltage setting on devices is exaggerated under 2.5 ohms

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Yea, seems a little silly. Also the diff he's seeing between voltage setting on devices is exaggerated under 2.5 ohms

Why is it exaggerated and what makes 2.5 ohms so special? What if its 2.6 ohms? What if it is a 2.5 ohm dual coil?

 

[John D in CT]

Yea, seems a little silly. Also the diff he's seeing between voltage setting on devices is exaggerated under 2.5 ohms

Why is it exaggerated and what makes 2.5 ohms so special? What if its 2.6 ohms? What if it is a 2.5 ohm dual coil?

Maybe pretend skip said "say, 2.5 ohms" instead of just "2.5 ohms". Makes it less "special", and probably more in line with what my bro actually had in mind.

 

[VictoryNotVengence]

FYI i just grabbed a silver Vmax with 2 batts and a charger for $113 shipped from Time East. They say shipping should take 12 days, but i havn't received a shipping notice yet...it is sunday though.

 

[donnah]

I agree with you completely and really since it's a subjective measure on this mod a number that just says power really makes more sense. Of course, I'm the guy that thinks all displays are just for impressing the tourists and all you need is a knob.

You know... you've made me view things a totally different way with this statement. I like seeing numbers BUT 3 of my devices have wheels and I'm fine with that. I've not really thought of viewing them as "power up" and "power down" before but it makes sense. BUT, if I do buy a device with a number readout.. I want that number to be right and feel right. Just as soon as I saw that this device was PWM I knew what pbusardo would find.. that the number didn't match the "feel" of the vape. Vaping is confusing enough as it is and now there's a whole other set of values that's been introduced.

I think a "power up" and a "power down" button would be a lot more useful than a set of numbers that doesn't mean anything. I know that those of us here know what we're doing and would be fine using this device. But what about the new vapers? It's like have a different standard of measurement for different devices. I can't imagine myself trying to process this information a year ago LOL.

This has been a great discussion so far and I hope it doesn't get into heated name calling or putting down the vmax.. I'd love to try one but like mickey..I'm also trying to absorb my latest purchase so anything new is out of the question right now. (and the vv grands are coming up soon! )

What really concerns me is the set voltage is so high. If you're using this at a much lower setting than 5v, you're going to need to remember to reset the voltage at each batt change or risk possibly damaging your atty or carto. There def is a place for this device in the vaping world but I would catagorize it as a very advanced user device for someone who knows what they are doing or can at least be shown what to do. But then again who knows.. technology in PVs is advancing at lightning speed and in a year, PWM may become the norm instead of something new and all the other devices like the Provari and the LT will have to redesign their devices to include PWM. I mean look at the darwin... who cares about voltage with it..it has it's own set of numbers and it's a well regarded device. But then again a person can easily use an online calculator to convert voltage and resistance into watts.

Lets take this even further.. say a couple years down the road everyone will have done away with numbers.. no voltage, no watts, no different resistances in attys or cartos and every device just has an "up" and a "down" be it a button or a wheel and we'll all be saying "Gee.. remember when PVs actually had number values attached to them?" Maybe the Buzz Pro had it right all along.

 

[adami]

Here's another response that I received from the thread I originally posted my question on regarding low vs high ohm vaping.

By Dusty_D http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...vv-device-battery-recharging.html#post6016195

"Here's the difference..Ohms Law.

Simulating 9Watts overall output.

3.7v set on device. 1.5ohm atty. Output is 9.1W. Power used = 2.45 Amps
5.0v set on device. 2.8ohm atty. Output is 8.9W Power used = 1.78 Amps

The difference in battery longevity is in the amount of Amps that your battery is putting out to produce the end result. Higher Amps, less life. Lower Amps, longer life. Lower Amps also means less HEAT being created causing the flavour to subtly change, if you vape a flavour that subtly changes when vaped at different levels.

There is a difference, however subtle between vaping low ohm/low voltage and high ohm/high voltage"

Figured this might be helpful to some on this thread, I found it so. I'll be buying some low ohm cartos to experiment a little. It seems the amps produced also bear some relevance to the vape experienced despite identical wattage.

I guess I'm calling out "The Original Guru" but any difference in battery life is going to come from efficiencies of the conversion circuit. The input voltage (the batteries) isn't changing and to get 9W out you need at least 9W coming out of the battery, regardless of output voltage. This means at 5.0V, 9W on a 3.7 volt VV device, your battery will be dumping at least 2.45A.

 

[fuzzione]

I guess I'm calling out "The Original Guru" but any difference in battery life is going to come from efficiencies of the conversion circuit. The input voltage (the batteries) isn't changing and to get 9W out you need at least 9W coming out of the battery, regardless of output voltage. This means at 5.0V, 9W on a 3.7 volt VV device, your battery will be dumping at least 2.45A.

I don't understand this. Anyone?