And yet, you quote zero from this paper. Methinks you aren't sure what it is really about.
Attack - it's your only hope here
And yet, you quote zero from this paper. Methinks you aren't sure what it is really about.
Attack - it's your only hope hereI quoted plenty on #3 & 4 before you came around
I could cherry pick cessation passages - there's quite a few - practically the whole paper - just not that interested in doing so.
The smoking cessation orthodoxy misinterprets the second-order preference as first-order and convinces people to embrace this misconception. They interpret survey responses or personal communications of I want to quit as first-order, even though the lack of corresponding action means this is almost certainly not accurate, and take this as an invitation to use any means at their disposal to force smokers into abstinence.
This suggests that the best option for many in Category 3 is to migrate into Category 4. Once they understand that their desire to quit is second-order, and that they are really looking for a way to prefer not smoking to smoking, finding ways to quit without the reduced net benefits from abstinence is the obvious strategy. Anti-tobacco extremists try to discourage THR by misleading people into believing that the alternative products are not substantially less harmful than smoking and other falsehoods (23-26). But a second and perhaps equally important anti-THR tactic has been largely overlooked: By successfully convincing the bulk of smokers who are in Category 3 that they are really in Category 2, and thus just need a bit of help from approved cessation methods, these activists discourage them from attempting the one method switching to an alternative product that might work for them. For most of the history of THR promotion efforts, a common response of smokers to a recommendation of switching to a low-risk alternative was I dont need that because I am just going to quit soon, which was unfortunately recited mostly by smokers who did not actually quit soon. Part of the success of e- cigarettes is probably that the celebratory culture that surrounds them has broken many Category 3 smokers out of this socially-constructed dead end.
Unbiased and thoughtful interpretation of smoking cessation study results could provide much useful information about how to advise smokers who want to quit. But very little of that seems to be occurring. If helping people who want to quit, or want to want to quit rather than just generating revenue or rhetoric is the goal of the research, then some more serious attention to the nature of the phenomena being studied is in order, with smokers seen as consumers with first- and second-order preferences that drive their behavior, rather than as patients with an illness for whom assigning a cure would be appropriate.
I'm not going to comment on this just yet, save to say it requires careful and thorough reading and, I believe, the level of analysis they've engaged in will be music to many posters' ears.
It's a very important piece of work.
Working Paper: Phillips-Nissen-Rodu, Understanding the evidence about the comparative success of smoking cessation methods: choice, second-order preferences, tobacco harm reduction, and other neglected considerations | EP-ology
Is it ok for us to "share" this paper?
Is it ok for us to "share" this paper?
IMO, as soon as it's been posted on the open web, you can consider it already shared...
Of course!
Re people who do not really want to quit, but still might be enticed by THR: I would say you fit squarely in the unanalyzed Category 5. If I were to analyze Category 5 a bit, it would end up including those who could learn that they really do want to switch.
one could make the case that 'if you switched from cigarettes to ecigs, then "you really did want to quit",' and it would seem that would be the case. For me, without years of psychoanalysisbut merely on my own conscious considerations on it, it would be as if I played tennis (which I did) and tried racquetball (which I did) and I liked racquetball better. There was no real intent on 'quitting tennis', only that I enjoyed racquetball more.
Re people who do not really want to quit, but still might be enticed by THR: I would say you fit squarely in the unanalyzed Category 5. If I were to analyze Category 5 a bit, it would end up including those who could learn that they really do want to switch. But the paper is already too long. Still, one sentence about that would probably be worth adding.
But in reality, people have to act not on that true underlying (latent) preference, but their preference based on what they actually know. So you preferred tennis to the concept of switching to racquetball.
I have no idea what my category is, but I only quit smoking because my wife hated the way I smelled after having a cigarette.This probably places me in a hypothetical Category 6 [people who had no particular inclination to quit, but did, though not for health reasons; rather, because they found vaping more enjoyable and less expensive, with harm reduction being merely an ancillary side benefit].
If possible, I'd like to hear Dr. Phillips' perspective on this publication:
Re the title of the paper being not quite right: I agree, it could use some work. This is mostly about understanding cessation methods and goals, but it is deeper than that. Understanding second-order preferences is a lot of what is interesting about it, of course. I will think about what I could do with it.
Note that understanding smoking as a rational choice based on costs and benefits is not part of what is new in this paper. I should do a better job of referencing back to what I have been writing on that point for years. I will do that.
Re the other points from the extended dialogue: I think most of it goes beyond the scope of what is being covered. There is already too much to cover without trying to get into the details of cutting down and such. I really don't think much is lost from the core message by setting that aside. Ultimately it is about smoking cessation.
Re people who do not really want to quit, but still might be enticed by THR: I would say you fit squarely in the unanalyzed Category 5. If I were to analyze Category 5 a bit, it would end up including those who could learn that they really do want to switch. But the paper is already too long. Still, one sentence about that would probably be worth adding.
Any smoker would know the difference between smoking and not smoking - so both choices are known.
If possible, I'd like to hear Dr. Phillips' perspective on this publication:
...Brainwashed: The Seductive Appeal of Mindless Neuroscience by Sally Satel and Scott Lilienfeld, copyright © 2013.
My apologies, but I disagree it is ultimately about smoking cessation, especially after you have written "This is mostly about understanding cessation methods and goals, but it is deeper than that." For me, it is deeper than 'about smoking cessation' and even with you, the author, I am willing to go paragraph by paragraph to show that it is deeper than this simple take of 'smoking cessation.'
"the paper is too long" is, for me, the reason the other stuff that I see this paper approaching, but falling short on, is not included. I can accept that. I think it is a very good, well written paper. The message it contains is light years ahead of most other papers that highlight smoking cessation methods. I'm very glad you wrote it and that it serves as part of a larger dialogue on this broad topic.