That's actually nice looking compared to just a few yrs ago. Some China sourced was several shades darker and people vaped it. Personally, I am more turned off if it has a chemical scent or taste.I don't know if you're looking for any experiences others may have but this nic from MFS that has been in a wooden box, is already changing color! It's been open less than a month. Here's a picture of my working bottle, which is kept in the same wooden box when not being used. All of my nic is 100mg, hence the lack of info on the label. Just thought I'd add my experience as I'm surprised it's changing color so quickly
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Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment
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Hmm, that is some good-looking nic. I generally just get Carolina (and no complaints there- they are pricey, but their nic is great, they ship fast, etc.,) cause nic is not generally a large expense for me, compared to other aspects of vaping. But maybe I'll have to take another look at VapersTek.
Thanks for the reminder, guys. It's been a bit more than 2 moths since I said, "Now we wait" after I got the last set of samples, so I just dug them out of the freezer and the cupboard and put them all in the fridge, so they'll all be at the same temperature for taking pictures, either later today, or tomorrow.
All the earlier samples are up in PA and it's probably going to be another 3 weeks before I can do an update on those.
All the earlier samples are up in PA and it's probably going to be another 3 weeks before I can do an update on those.
All four of these are from the same batch/lot code. Left to right:
Rebottled in Glass - Room Temperature
Unopened PET -- Room Temperature
Unopened PET -- Freezer
Rebottled in Glass - Freezer
All of these have been in the 'fridge overnight so they were at the same temperature when the pic was taken.
Both of the Freezer samples remain as colorless as they were when I received them a couple of months ago.
Both of the Room Temperature samples show obvious signs of darkening and oxidation, although not as much or as fast as the some of the other samples I've got up in PA.
Now the question I was trying to answer with this set of samples is whether it's better to leave the nic base in the original PET bottles or to re-bottle in in glass. Conventional wisdom is, re-bottle it in glass. However, I was skeptical about this, since re-bottling intrinsically means additional exposure to air/oxygen than just leaving it in the container it came in.
To my eyes, the difference between the samples that were rebottled in glass vs. the ones that were left in the original, unopened PET bottles is insignificant.
Preliminary conclusion: Storage temperature is more important than the type of bottle it's in. If you receive a batch of nic, and you don't intend to re-bottle it right away, put it in the freezer anyway, don't leave it sitting at room temperature while you're waiting for your glass bottles to arrive.
In fact, given what I'm seeing here, and condition of the WL nic that was in the freezer in PET bottles unintentionally for 2-1/2 (documented in the first post of this thread), I'm not all that convinced that re-bottling in glass is truly essential. But temperature matters, and cold is good!
Meanwhile, these samples are back in the cupboard and freezer respectively. I'll keep this set going for at least a year. Also, stay tuned for an update on the samples I have in PA in a few weeks.
Interesting experiment, thanks for sharing it here. I've been keeping a 60 ml bottle of my Carolina nic at room temp and as it darkens a little bit, I actually like the taste of it at 6mg/ml 60pg/40vg.
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this is an excellent thread. i'm a new diy-er and i've been keeping my 125ml bottle of nic (along with flavorings, pg, and vg) in my closet. mainly because i've only had it for a little over a week, and i'm still experimenting with recipes. my closet stays cold in the summer since we run the a/c all day, so i figure everything should be ok for now at least until we switch over to heat in the fall.
my question though, is does the nic have to go in the freezer as opposed to the fridge? it's in an amber bottle. and i'm guessing it'll take me between 9-12 months to go through the entire 125ml bottle since i mix my juice with between 2-3% nic.
my question though, is does the nic have to go in the freezer as opposed to the fridge? it's in an amber bottle. and i'm guessing it'll take me between 9-12 months to go through the entire 125ml bottle since i mix my juice with between 2-3% nic.
So there will have to be an occasional taste test to see if the color change matters. And may be the difference between glass and plastic bottles doesn matter much in the early years but might over more years. This is a worthy experiment. Hopefully you'll let it continue indefinitely.
All four of these are from the same batch/lot code. Left to right:
Rebottled in Glass - Room Temperature
Unopened PET -- Room Temperature
Unopened PET -- Freezer
Rebottled in Glass - Freezer
All of these have been in the 'fridge overnight so they were at the same temperature when the pic was taken.
Both of the Freezer samples remain as colorless as they were when I received them a couple of months ago.
Both of the Room Temperature samples show obvious signs of darkening and oxidation, although not as much or as fast as the some of the other samples I've got up in PA.
Now the question I was trying to answer with this set of samples is whether it's better to leave the nic base in the original PET bottles or to re-bottle in in glass. Conventional wisdom is, re-bottle it in glass. However, I was skeptical about this, since re-bottling intrinsically means additional exposure to air/oxygen than just leaving it in the container it came in.
To my eyes, the difference between the samples that were rebottled in glass vs. the ones that were left in the original, unopened PET bottles is insignificant.
Preliminary conclusion: Storage temperature is more important than the type of bottle it's in. If you receive a batch of nic, and you don't intend to re-bottle it right away, put it in the freezer anyway, don't leave it sitting at room temperature while you're waiting for your glass bottles to arrive.
In fact, given what I'm seeing here, and condition of the WL nic that was in the freezer in PET bottles unintentionally for 2-1/2 (documented in the first post of this thread), I'm not all that convinced that re-bottling in glass is truly essential. But temperature matters, and cold is good!
Meanwhile, these samples are back in the cupboard and freezer respectively. I'll keep this set going for at least a year. Also, stay tuned for an update on the samples I have in PA in a few weeks.
It will continue for at least one year, and quite possibly longer. However, I'm loathe to open any of the bottles until I'm ready to call it "done". Doing so would allow additional fresh air/oxygen into the bottle.
Wait, that gives me an idea for another variation on this experiment. But that will require two more samples, dang it. Unfortunately, I'm gonna be travelling next week, so now is not a good time for me to order more.
As for the taste of oxidized nic: A couple of years ago, I did a blind test in the Nicotine Comparisons thread. After doling out the samples, each bottle had ~40 ml left and they all got put in a cupboard for a couple of months. They each darkened quite a bit. Wish I had taken pics, but didn't. I ended up using them to make a big batch of my normal (at the time) 35P/65V/15N unflavored. That was the worst batch of unflavored I've ever had. I vaped it, but I was glad when it was gone and I got to make a new batch using "fresh" nic from the freezer.
I used to leave a 60ml bottle of PG nic & a 30ml of VG nic in my steep box.
I'd refresh them when needed from a freezer 120ml but sometimes I made less juice for ppl and they'd sit in the box for a couple of months. I never tested box vs freezer but I wonder how much it affected flavor as the nic sat out longer.
It doesn't matter anymore because I've been keeping my 30mlVG & 60mlPG user nic bottles in the fridge for a few months now.
I'd refresh them when needed from a freezer 120ml but sometimes I made less juice for ppl and they'd sit in the box for a couple of months. I never tested box vs freezer but I wonder how much it affected flavor as the nic sat out longer.
It doesn't matter anymore because I've been keeping my 30mlVG & 60mlPG user nic bottles in the fridge for a few months now.
Each time I pull a 120ml from the freezer it goes into a 120ml PET bottle with a yorker top to be my new working bottle. It stays in basement steep cabinet until it is used up which can take quite a while mixing at 3mg/ml. By the end it has changed color slightly but I don't notice any significant taste of it in my finished juice so I would expect you should be fine.
I just keep a 30 ml bottle of nic in my mix draw and refill as needed from a 120 ml bottle in the freezer. Works fine as I don't mix large batches I also found after a year of DIY that my calculation of 250 ml a year was accurate. Now I have more faith in my long term nic supply predictions.
From this forum I gather that nic darkens because of oxygen and or light. If a room temperature bottle is kept in total darkness in a closed container where are these actors that cause darkening? Will the samples in this test continue to darken for a while then progress no further because the oxygen that might be available in the bottle is finally absorbed?
My room-temperature samples are kept in darkness. The ones up in PA are kept in a "tin" box with the lid closed, and the ones here in FL are kept in the back of kitchen cupboard over the refrigerator. So I really don't think exposure to light is a factor in my results.
That's a darn good question and and the main reason why I intend to keep this thing going for at least a year.
You will likely see less of a darkening with glass bottles but PET bottles leach air through the bottle wall so you will likely see a deeper and more continued darkening in plastic then you would with glass.
I don't know Rossum, the nic contained in the PET bottle appears slightly darker to me and considering that the PET bottle has a smaller diameter/cross section (we're looking through less liquid) I'd say the difference may already be statistically significant. If so, this surprises me because the nic contained in glass received a fresh supply of oxygen when it was re-bottled, that alone should have offset the benefits of glass for many months. I didn't expect to see a visual difference between the two this early in the experiment if at all. For the room temperature side of the experiment there is little doubt heat is the catalyst for accelerated oxidation. Liquid nic stored at room temperature is going to have a relatively short shelf life regardless of the type of container it's stored in. Glass may ultimately win the visual comparison at the 12 month mark but the only true difference between the two will likely be levels of mustiness with both samples being well past their prime.
I'm curious, are you logging ambient temperature differences between your FL and PA storage samples? Does the rate/speed of oxidation seem to be linked to average daily storage temperatures?
I personally don't look for there to be a perceivable difference between the PET and glass bottles even after a year or two. Cold storage is so effective at slowing molecular movement/reactions, the benefits of glass containment may not become apparent until many years have passed but remember this, while cold storage greatly slows oxidation, it doesn't completely stop it. If a person is only planning on storing liquid nic for a few years I doubt re-bottling it into glass containers is necessary, doing so might actually cause more harm than good because of the extra oxygen introduced during re-bottling. However, if the goal is long term storage (5-20 years) using airtight containers made of non oxygen permeable material (like glass) might be essential to maintaining a viable (palatable) end product.
As evidenced early on in your experiment heat is bad, cold is good when it comes to the longevity of liquid nic and this comes as no surprise to those with years of experience storing/handling it. But... if 0F is exponentially better than 75F, wouldn't -10F be even better? With exposure to light and oxygen in check, is the ultimate longevity of liquid nic directly linked to the temperature it's stored at?
It "freezes" current condition, so it would greatly halt further oxidation, just like if it was clear. I've also read people before here stating they had picked up nic from there freezer which was as amber as when originally freezed.
That's what I suspected.
The last liter I bought traveled during a heat wave, probably had 6 days in a 120deg UPS truck.
It was not as clear as I'd like, but vaped OK.
I'll give an update on it's condition in about 10 years, stored at -15f...
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