Nicotine absorbtion from vaping research

[TropicalBob]

Good for you? Could be. Read the "germ-kiling vapor" thread in Health. Also see the new interview with Dr. Murray Laugesen.

I use PG-based liquid precisely because I feel it is good for me.

 

[paladinx]

ha, imagine if it ends up being good for you. Who knows. Bob, This guy from India that I know who is an engineer was talking to me about e-cigarettes. He said something kind of weird. I am not sure it was from pure paranoia or not, but he was talking about inhaling something from a battery and atomizer as being dangerous. he has a heavy accent so it was hard to understand him, but it seemed like he was talking about the battery and the electric discharge or electrons that might have a reaction with the central nervous system. I kind of dismissed it as rubbish at first, but Do you think there is any truth to that? About the device itself posing a danger. Perhaps battery leakage or electric discharges that you are breathing in? Or is that some kind of sci fi concern?

 

[Vee]

Not knowing anything about it, wouldn't that make ionizers bad for you... disregarding the O3 by-product.

 

[Kate51]

ha, imagine if it ends up being good for you. Who knows. Bob, This guy from India that I know who is an engineer was talking to me about e-cigarettes. He said something kind of weird. I am not sure it was from pure paranoia or not, but he was talking about inhaling something from a battery and atomizer as being dangerous. he has a heavy accent so it was hard to understand him, but it seemed like he was talking about the battery and the electric discharge or electrons that might have a reaction with the central nervous system. I kind of dismissed it as rubbish at first, but Do you think there is any truth to that? About the device itself posing a danger. Perhaps battery leakage or electric discharges that you are breathing in? Or is that some kind of sci fi concern?

Could be something to that, I wouldn't live under a highline. I've seen what happens to a perfectly healthy herd of cattle when there's a stray voltage problem. I also won't use an electric blanket. Our homes are perfectly laid out electromagnetic fields. I don't use a cell phone much, or talk on a landline in a storm. Here's a new word. Chemoelectrical plasmatic molecular flow! I just made that one up. If it comes to that, I'm in BIG trouble with my PV!! Beam me up, Scotty!

 

[Darkest]

This thread is great. I was also one of the lucky ones who quit analogs on day one and didn't look back. I was smoking 1 1/2 to 2 packs a day of camel unfiltered and had tried everything you could imagine including cold turkey to stop and never made it past three days. I even tried ten patches at once and it didn't do the trick. They may have been old though I'm not sure but they said 15.8mg on them, didn't kill me or make me sick but didn't help me stop smoking either.

I smoke the 36 now and am using self designed battery and 801 atomizer and get a lot of smoke and use it pretty much all day. I can only last an hour or so without it. It's funny, this thread made me start thinking maybe it's mental so I smoked one of my wifes cigs (The e-cig doesn't work for her) and it did kinda give me a rush. I didn't finish the nasty thing, it made my chest hurt, but I also would like to know some answers about this.

Maybe ehem, we should have a thread with just documentation on all the testing to date

 

[Kate51]

This thread is great. I was also one of the lucky ones who quit analogs on day one and didn't look back. I was smoking 1 1/2 to 2 packs a day of camel unfiltered and had tried everything you could imagine including cold turkey to stop and never made it past three days. I even tried ten patches at once and it didn't do the trick. They may have been old though I'm not sure but they said 15.8mg on them, didn't kill me or make me sick but didn't help me stop smoking either.

I smoke the 36 now and am using self designed battery and 801 atomizer and get a lot of smoke and use it pretty much all day. I can only last an hour or so without it. It's funny, this thread made me start thinking maybe it's mental so I smoked one of my wifes cigs (The e-cig doesn't work for her) and it did kinda give me a rush. I didn't finish the nasty thing, it made my chest hurt, but I also would like to know some answers about this.

Maybe ehem, we should have a thread with just documentation on all the testing to date

I know it is more than mental. I told myself to quit and I didn't listen!
I quit from Day1 also. Now I'm addicted to PV juice! Within hours. I haven't tried a cigarette at all to see what bounce I would get if any, but 24mg juice seems perfect for me. There is getting to be quite a bit of info regarding testing, so do some searching. Perhaps someone could organize that into one thread, or a document file or something for easier access. We seem to raise more questions with more information, which I think is forward looking, we want to know exactly what this is. AND I think there may be truth to the fact that nicotine makes us addicted to whatever it's in: the carrier if you will. Which has toxic and poisonous qualities.

 

[happily]

I think we should all agree that it's better than smoking.......and if we're gonna start guessing, let's start making up positive scenarios and blasted the web. Let the fda try and prove us wrong.

For example: I read somewhere that vaping cures hemmorhoids and has also slowed down fighting in the middle east

 

[paladinx]

Speaking about the positives to me is kind of useless and easy. It is the unknowns and negatives we all need to talk about and question. If you want to know the positives of e-smoking, all you really have to do is look at all the negatives of a cigarette. But the negatives and unknowns is what the FDA and whoever are going to use against us.

in a way this forum is like a medical study. User feedback here is probably our only real experiment on the effects of ecigs.

 

[Kate51]

Speaking about the positives to me is kind of useless and easy. It is the unknowns and negatives we all need to talk about and question. If you want to know the positives of e-smoking, all you really have to do is look at all the negatives of a cigarette. But the negatives and unknowns is what the FDA and whoever are going to use against us.

in a way this forum is like a medical study. User feedback here is probably our only real experiment on the effects of ecigs.

Amen! And then some. (Amen was too short to post)

 

[TropicalBob]

Back to the original info Kate posted. I've long felt I got very little nicotine from e-smoking, and I made up for it by using strong snus, 4mg dissolvables and nasal stuff that will turn your eyes red and burn your nose like striking a match in there.

So I went after some plasma nicotine levels charts, and added the info on the 16mg liquid to one. This would assume the peak level, once reached, stays constant, which is likely not the case, but many of us do vape non-stop. Can the level rise with constant vaping? Does it fall when we vape intermittently? We need to know, because this reported level -- if accurate -- is pathetically inadequate.

The other chart shows the nic impact of some snus. Note how they SOAR past what cigarettes can provide. You need nicotine? Get some snus.

And this the chart for snus.

 

[orlampagal]

I read in a few posts that you don't feel the instant rush as with analogs, but then you start to feel it a bit later... this is true with me (using 18 mg from eastmall and 18 mg JC)
I am the type that picks it up and will vape through 3 batteries, then put it down for a couple of hours. About a half hour later I look at it and realize I don't need it yet. When I do vape, I vape for at least an hour, just about non stop... only stopping with the atty gets real hot.

To try something new, and hopefully pry myself away from analogs, I purchased 24 mg from cigtechs. I used it for about 5 minutes worth of constant vaping and then left to go get my son. I came back and didn't need to use the ecig for about 2 more hours.

Also, I have found that I get a tingly feeling in my mouth if I draw and don't inhale. Within 10 minutes of the tingles, I don't feel the need for more nicotine.

So these two rather disconnected thoughts tell me a couple of things.
1. Vaping for 5 or 10 minutes straight, topping off cartridges about a dozen times, and then stopping.... will produce a "high" about 5 or 10 min later.
2. Not inhaling into your lungs, but holding the vapor in your mouth and or letting it exit your nose causes the nicotine to be absorbed faster (at least with me)

 

[TropicalBob]

2. Not inhaling into your lungs, but holding the vapor in your mouth and or letting it exit your nose causes the nicotine to be absorbed faster (at least with me)

You made an important discovery: Absorption indeed occurs primarily from the mouth, NOT the lungs, so there is no need to deeply inhale a vapor of unregulated content. Also, the PH of the vapor, as reported so far, is more alkaline than acidic, also favoring mouth absorption.

As I've said before, e-smoking is not like cigarette smoking. It's a pretender, but has more in common with cigar or pipe smoking (where the smoke is not inhaled) or holding a snus portion or dissolvable in the mouth. Exhaling through the nose is like using nasal snuff, and absorption is quick and efficient.

If the studies are true, the bottom line is that you get maximum impact and safety by holding the vapor in your mouth, rather than shooting it directly to your lungs, then exhaling through the nose.

 

[paladinx]

I would really love to know in the graph below how long the snuff/snus was used for. A lot of the nicotine charts I see that compares products are not very clear. I think there is a huge difference when you compare smoking 1 cigarette to having a snus in your mouth for 20 mins, 30 mins or 2 hours.

 

[Kate]

It seems that 36mg eliquid is being discontinued because it's not thought to be safe to vape.

Now I'm confused, if it isn't potent as suggested by this research and placebo theorists then why is it not going to be sold?

 

[WerkIt]

I think there is a huge difference when you compare smoking 1 cigarette to having a snus in your mouth for 20 mins, 30 mins or 2 hours.

That is a good point. However, as a snuser who keeps a portion in for 2-3 hours, there is no mistaking the primary nicotine release occurs when you first place the portion in the mouth. Somewhere between 40 minutes to an hour afterward, the drainage of the nicotine is no longer occurring (and probably stops sooner than that). I can play with the portion and move it all over my mouth and squeeze out a bit more flavor and possibly nicotine, but once that initial release of nicotine is over, it is completely spent, or almost so. If I didn't know this before, I certainly discovered it the one time I attempted Thunder ES. It was almost unbearable at first (awful really, due to the strength), but once that initial release was over, it was done. In other words, keeping a portion in the mouth, does not mean the portion is still releasing nicotine an hour or two hours or three hours after the fact.

 

[happily]

It seems that 36mg eliquid is being discontinued because it's not thought to be safe to vape.

Now I'm confused, if it isn't potent as suggested by this research and placebo theorists then why is it not going to be sold?

I think the issue with this research is the 5 minute test................we need 5 min./ 30 min/1 hr etc. type of a test

I for one am convinced vaping crawls through your body unlike cigs which go straight to the brain

keep in mind there is a reason ruyan goes with the 5 minute statistic

 

[paladinx]

I get what you are saying werkit, But who really knows. Maybe it continues to release nicotine for 2 hours but because the amount decreases and the gradualness of it, you dont feel it. Im used to heavy smoking so when i put in any snus in my mouth i feel absolutely nothing. Its almost as if i put a piece of rubber under my lip. So sometimes you cannot go by what you feel.

And if you look at the graph, The nicotine from snus seems to linger longer. I believe that is due to the fact that the snus is still in the mouth. maybe i am wrong. But why should nicotine from a cigarette be disposed of so fast when it reaches higher levels, and not snus at lower levels? I still think the answer is because the cigarette is out in five minutes.

another reason why i say the graph is misleading is because a snuser is going to have one in his mouth for at least 20 mins to half hour or longer A cigarette smoker might smoke five cigarettes in 2 hours. So its kind of a misleading comparison.

 

[WerkIt]

Maybe it continues to release nicotine for 2 hours but because the amount decreases and the gradualness of it, you dont feel it.

That's exactly what I suspect.

Im used to heavy smoking so when i put in any snus in my mouth i feel absolutely nothing. Its almost as if i put a piece of rubber under my lip. So sometimes you cannot go by what you feel.

I smoked ultralight for all but 3 of the past 28.5 years, but there were many ultralights I could not take because they were too strong, even though I smoked between 1.5-2.5 packs per day when I was still smoking. I cut Stonewall Javas in half because they are too strong for me whole. I vape 4 mg or less e-liquids. I am sensitive to high nic levels, which is also why I stick almost exclusively with mini-portions as far as snus.

And if you look at the graph, The nicotine from snus seems to linger longer. I believe that is due to the fact that the snus is still in the mouth. maybe i am wrong.

I suspect that is also why it lingers, but I have the same suspicion regarding vaping. I wonder if the absorption occurs more in the mouth than in the lungs with vaping. If so, it would explain why we don't get that 'hit' or analog 'high' with either of snus or vaping, although we do get that with analogs.

But why should nicotine from a cigarette be disposed of so fast when it reaches higher levels, and not snus at lower levels? I still think the answer is because the cigarette is out in five minutes.

And the snus is releasing the major portion of nicotine for at least 30 minutes, if not longer, instead of 5 minutes.

another reason why i say the graph is misleading is because a snuser is going to have one in his mouth for at least 20 mins to half hour or longer A cigarette smoker might smoke five cigarettes in 2 hours. So its kind of a misleading comparison.

Actually, if you had the graph showing a two hour time period, I would imagine the snus would still show the same gradual increase and decrease of nicotine in the blood level, whereas the analog smoker's line on the graph would show 5 sharp spikes in that same two hour period, with each spike appearring at the time the smoker lit the analog.

That's one of the reasons I think it is so difficult to quit analogs. There is an addiction to that 'spike' in addition to the addiction to nicotine. I think that's why I hit the e-cig constantly when I first quit. I was trying to get that spike.

 

[EVapor]

I had a similar experience last weekend. Was on a camping trip and my batteries ran out, so I got a Marlboro RED from a friend and after finishing thought I am going to vomit.

Agree on the lower level in e-cigs: I am vaping much more frequently (every 20 mins or so; sometimes chain-vaping) then I used to smoke (half a pack).

Marlboro is one one of the brands with a higher level of free-base nicotine, perhaps partly accounting for its success.

Apparently, the brand with highest free-base content, American Spirit, is additive free. This does not rule out the pH theory, however; perhaps something about the tobacco used, or that some (other) additive negates the release of free-base nicotine.

 

[paladinx]

yeah true, But i mean I have a cig what feels like every five mins in the morning lol. That would cause a spike and the graphs spikes would be going upwards I think if you are a heavy smoker. So you are getting spikes and keeping a high spike nicotine level going on.

I guess I just have to readjust and get used to the diff nicotine levels and amounts with snus. Im guessing that it is healthier then smoking. I have read that the blood nicotine levels in snusers and smokers are pretty much alike, So i guess it balances out. who knows.

regards