Nicotine Comparisons

[djslik]

Bob that's a great question. I think the thing to do is ask MFS to chime in on this, hopefully Dustin will see the discussion and pop in. Proctor and Gamble is kind of hard to find, or hard to find a vendor that will actually verify thT they're selling proctor and gamble VG

As far as I'm aware the two options right now for PnG VG are ecigexpress and froggys fog, but I haven't looked in a while

It looks like froggy fog sells through amazon.

 

[casey8579]

OK, I'm unsure as to the initial manufacturer of my VG/PG stock. I bought from Essential Depot...safe? Unsafe? Thoughts, please?

(And where is PnG found, please???)

I use Essential Depot also. FWIW I emailed them and asked about this and have quoted the response below.

Hello,

A question about your product SKU: GLYCERIN-VEG-2. I and many others use your products for e-cigarette eliquid and a question has come up if there should be any concern about the source of your product as related to the following quote:

("The main issue currently is the biodiesel byproduct problem; specifically the jatropha plant issue. Biodiesel production involves the use of multiple plant sources and these include jatropha in the modern era. Glycerine is produced as a by-product, along with diesel fuel. The problem is that jatropha is toxic to humans: its esters are carcinogenic. For this reason biodiesel by-product glycerine absolutely MUST NOT be used for vaping-use glycerine. However this is easier said than done: no one really knows if this condition has been met unless the finished retail product is tested for the carcinogenic phorbol esters of the jatropha plant. As hardly any e-liquid vendors either test properly [4], or know how to test for this contaminant in any case, it is a genuine and serious issue. The FDA have warned about this and a web search reveals multiple resources, including: http://www.fda.gov/InternationalProg.../ucm311479.htm ")

Sorry for the long message, but for peace of mind would just like to know that your VG does not come from any process that includes the jatropha plant.

Thank you

Good Morning,
We at Essential Depot are very aware that glycerin can be made from these other plants.
Because we have so many customers that use our glycerin that do use our glycerin and propylen for e-cig use, we will continue to only sell glycerin made from Palm and ONLY palm.

I hope this can ease your mind.
Essential Depot, will continue to give our customers that products that they need and want.
Being a "Greener Life Essentials" company, we would never prived our customers with anything toxic to their health and safety, in that manner.

DONNIE
Customer Service Division
ESSENTIAL DEPOT, INC.

 

[TTK]

Bob that's a great question. I think the thing to do is ask MFS to chime in on this, hopefully Dustin will see the discussion and pop in. Proctor and Gamble is kind of hard to find, or hard to find a vendor that will actually verify thT they're selling proctor and gamble VG

As far as I'm aware the two options right now for PnG VG are ecigexpress and froggys fog, but I haven't looked in a while

How can you tell ecigexpress VG is PnG? I don't see that stated in their description.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Hmmm, it used to say that it was Proctor and Gamble clearly in the description, I don't see it anymore...when I ordered I asked the person on the phone to go to the stock room and read the drum to me lol

 

[TaylorMade]

I'm not familiar with Jatropha so I'm having to contact our supplier about this, but I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[Kurt]

As far as I can tell, at issue is not whether it is P&G specifically, but whether it is verifiable as palm or soy based exclusively.

 

[Exchaner]

Just wondering why it should be a secret where a vendor gets his vg from. After all vg is a simple commodity, not a pharmaceutical with a secret formula covered by a patent. The only reason I can think of for the secrecy is marketing strategies; which we all know are designed to protect the vendor, not the consumer.

 

[casey8579]

As far as I can tell, at issue is not whether it is P&G specifically, but whether it is verifiable as palm or soy based exclusively.

Thanks for posting this, I did not know what was good for VG to be made out of, just that it shouldn't be jatropha. I feel ok now about using Essential Depot as a supplier.

 

[TaylorMade]

Here is the response I received from our supplier:

No problem, the Glycerin 99.7% USP Kosher we supply to you is GMO-free and derived from palm oil and/or palm kernel oils only. This material is usually made in Malaysia and Indonesia (country of origin is stated on each container label), and none of this material is derived from jatropha plants.

He also mentioned the following in his email:

This item DOES NOT contain peanuts, egg products, artificial flavors and colors or any
other additional ingredients, including animal by-products.

This item DOES NOT contain any GMO (Genetically Modified Organisms).

Our Glycerin is packaged under organic-compliant conditions.

 

[Kurt]

Thanks for posting this, I did not know what was good for VG to be made out of, just that it shouldn't be jatropha. I feel ok now about using Essential Depot as a supplier.

Agreed. Anything non-jatropha,not just soy or palm. Canola is another source, and I would be surprised if corn is not too. I think people should get into the threads for their favorite nic sources and ask the vendor about their VG.

Jatrophia Seed Glycerin Warning

Chemworld is a commonly used large volume distributor for VG, and many vendors use it.

 

[Kurt]

Here is the response I received from our supplier:



He also mentioned the following in his email:

This item DOES NOT contain peanuts, egg products, artificial flavors and colors or any
other additional ingredients, including animal by-products.

This item DOES NOT contain any GMO (Genetically Modified Organisms).

Our Glycerin is packaged under organic-compliant conditions.

Thanks, TaylorMade. Very glad a supplier is jumping in. Hope more do.

 

[jfoster1]

Thought I would post this to let anyone know who it interested. I recieved my order from heartland vapes. They made a mistake on my order. I ordered 50/50 and they sent all PG. I did not realize it until I had it poured up in glass. I contacted them and they said they would reship a new order. Sounds like they will have good customer support. I thought it seemed a little thin, but it was about 85 here today and just figured it had gotten hot in back of the mail truck. Anyway, anyone can make a mistake, but not everyone makes it right. Sounds like they are going to make it right.

 

[Shilo]

Hmmm, it used to say that it was Proctor and Gamble clearly in the description, I don't see it anymore...when I ordered I asked the person on the phone to go to the stock room and read the drum to me lol

and did they abide by your request?

 

[PhoenixD]

VZ 100 mg/ml PG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

RTS 100 mg/ml VG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

I have unfortunately ripped through my 30 ml sample of ECX, so I cannot mix it straight and have it here for 'real time' comparison, so I'm relying on memory and my previous comparison of ECX, VZ and MFS. MFS nic I know like the back of my hand by this point, so its likewise not on the table in the flesh at the moment. SNIP

But its not worth dealing with sub par professionalism for, and its 'not as good' as VZ and ECX in my opinion. As it stands now, my money goes to VZ and ECX, with some MFS here and there.

I'm just now at the stage of considering DIY and wonder if there is a page somewhere that gives these abbreviations and what companies they are? I assume ECX is e-cig express. But not sure on the others. Sorry for the "you dummy!" question.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

and did they abide by your request?

Of course they did, I asked politely

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I'm just now at the stage of considering DIY and wonder if there is a page somewhere that gives these abbreviations and what companies they are? I assume ECX is e-cig express. But not sure on the others. Sorry for the "you dummy!" question.

There's more to read further in the thread regarding other nicotines so check that out

MFS= my freedom smokes
WLR= wizard labs regular
WLI= wizard labs ice (not always available)
XTR= extreme vaping
RTS= RTS
ECX= excigexpress
VZ= vaping zone

others that haven't been abbreviated by an arsehorse like myself: nude nicotine, heartland, nicvape, good prophets

who did I miss?

 

[thehangdude]

Any thoughts on ejuice4u.com?

 

[C-Hang]

Just to say, Thank you. I love this post for no other reason than you got down with your bad ... nic self, did some suitably designed experiments and bothered to write clearly about them, here for all of us.
You rule.
C-Hang

VZ 100 mg/ml PG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

RTS 100 mg/ml VG, diluted to 33mg/ml 33% PG 67% VG

I have unfortunately ripped through my 30 ml sample of ECX, so I cannot mix it straight and have it here for 'real time' comparison, so I'm relying on memory and my previous comparison of ECX, VZ and MFS. MFS nic I know like the back of my hand by this point, so its likewise not on the table in the flesh at the moment.
Both were transferred to amber glass bottles, heated indirectly with water for a few minutes while intermittently shaken, then allowed to cool to room temp and transferred into two separate plastic dropper bottles for dripping.

One poorly controlled variable here is the VZ nic obviously uses their PG, and my VG, while the RTS nic uses my PG, and their VG. That said, I don't think its an issue.


Vaped On: Two phoenix, both washed, stem removed and set up for dripping, stock wick and coils. Both Ohming in at 2.2. V4L eGo fresh off the charger.

Time: Intermittently, last night through now.

Clarity of Odor: Before I hurt anyone's feelings, let me say I have a sensitive nose. I can smell nicotine, period.

Uncapping the bottle of RTS that I got on Friday, I was able to smell nic. Not overwhelming or gross per se, but yes, odor. More than ECX, more than VZ, less than MFS which has the strongest alkaline pungency of the 4.

In terms of clarity of odor, I'd say its VZ = ECX >> RTS > MFS

What about when vaped? No odor on the RTS (or the VZ) unless I TRY to smell it. Meaning, if I stick my nose in my steaming atty and inhale through the nose, I can smell it. Here the RTS is more stinky as well. But in normal vaping conditions, effectively no odor.

So again it would be VZ= ECX >> RTS > MFS

Clarity of Color: Ever read all those posts about how crystal clear RTS nic is? Well it's not. It arrived with a nice yellow tint, on par with the appearance of aged MFS nic. Its not gross or bad looking, its slight, but its there. Not a big deal necessarily, as nicotine will oxidize with time and yellow a bit, there's nothing we can do about it. So color doesn't necessarily mean anything per se. But it's still off putting.

I tried to take pictures side by side with the VZ nic, which after some time is absolutely crystal clear...when I say clear, I mean *clear* (as was the ECX). Problem is the lighting in my room was actually making the yellow tint look significantly worse than it is, and I didn't want to misrepresent my eyes, so I skipped posting it. Let's just say I'd normally make labels for this kind of a test, and I didn't have to, as the RTS is readily identifiable by its appearance.

In terms of clarity of color, I'd say its VZ = ECX > MFS > RTS

Clarity of Flavor: The dominant note with both solutions is PG, likely because I'm not a huge fan of the taste and overly aware of it. The PG is a bit more prominent on the RTS (see below). I'm not tasting much of anything on either: mouth inhales and exhales, mouth inhales and nose exhales, or mouth inhales with nose/mouth exhales. I don't get the peppery/pungent note that I taste in MFS.

In terms of clarity of flavor I'd say its RTS = ECX = VZ >> MFS

TH: RTS has a reputation for being a 'smooth' nicotine. I would phrase it differently. The TH is subdued, maybe even weak. This maybe why I can pick up the PG more clearly with the RTS vs. the VZ.

I can see this nicotine possibly lending itself to 'cute' juices that are sweet, fruity, etc. That said, I have it mixed at 26 nic in a tobacco juice and I'm still getting a rocking "TH" which I'd ascribe to the flavor, and the juice, which I've also mixed with VZ, ECX and MFS nic, is no more flavorful or alive with the RTS nic than it is with the others...just a bit less TH.

So I don't think there is any clarity gained for flavor, just a weaker throat hit. That could be a good thing if its what you want, but it may really annoy you if you enjoy the throat hit. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it yet, time will tell.

Another possible variable here is the *actual* nic content. If VZ was 3% high, and/or RTS was 3% low, it could lead to a difference in final nic concentration of the solutions, explaining the subdued TH. I dunno.

All in all, this is a stellar nicotine. I have my reservations about the color. I don't like to get nic that is already yellow, albeit slightly. Just hasn't happened to me with the other three vendors. In particular I'm concerned it won't hold up so well with time. We'll see.

I'm also a little uneasy with the subdued TH. Either its lower than advertised concentration, pilot error, or its just...weird. Something's not right. I'm guessing this lack of TH has generated quite a few fans; if this is what you're looking for RTS is for you.

Quality Control and Company, Customer Service: RTS and MFS make their lab data readily available, which is a huge plus. To date I don't think VZ or ECX have done this. I don't really doubt people until they give me a reason to (naive on my part, I know). And given the excellent customer service and respectable conduct of ECX linnx, VZ louie and leah, and MFS Chris, I don't doubt the purity of their product at all.

MFS would thus seem to have the edge in the QC department.

I wouldn't grant that edge to RTS, simply because of Randy's attitude. Perusing the RTS thread didn't really give me the info I was looking for, but instead encumbered me with navigating through pages upon pages of ECF members (some of whom I hold in *high* regard), being flamed and alienated. These pages were punctuated with gratuitous "proof is in the pudding" kind of logic that consists of profit and sales quotes, often cited as a justification, or "I don't care" kind of response to people that felt so insulted they felt the need to threaten withdrawal of their business.

What's my point, and how is this relevant?

If this is the way someone runs things, they could hand me a hard copy of a lab certificate signed by Jesus Christ and I wouldn't wipe myself with it. That's to say nothing of their purely verbal claims. Character and attitude radiate and emanate from a person like rays from the sun, impregnating their surroundings, activities, products, etc. I have no reason to suspect anything 'shady' from RTS, but given the way they *act* I'm forced to suspend, and reverse my 'innocent until guilty' naivete and instead operate on the principle: "If you can screw me, you probably will."

I personally don't want a "screw you, I'm always right, look at my sales" kind of person mixing my poison.

So in summary, subjectively speaking this is a great product, a little stinky, a little weak, and a little yellow.

But its not worth dealing with sub par professionalism for, and its 'not as good' as VZ and ECX in my opinion. As it stands now, my money goes to VZ and ECX, with some MFS here and there.

 

[r77r7r]

He's a force to be rekoned with, when he's...................

................

 

[JulesXsmokr]

great info here guys... I have been reading for quite a while, just the last 30 pages or so.. During that time I filled up my dripper about 30 times.. I am getting into DIY, and with the info in here, I am comfortable with my purchases I have made because they are included in here in a positive sense.
I checked out that Jatropha plant also, basically a flowering weed/bush, native to N, C, and S. America..lots of parts of it to be used for energy production, and of course poisonous.
Keep up the talk, lots of folks just read and comprehend, and don't say a word.. just thought I'd say Thanks for some good talk..