Nicotine Comparisons

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Thanks to all for the replies, but the nic I received was in pg not vg.....Does this mean the nic is much older and already beginning to go bad?

 

[mhertz]

Thanks sketchness, interesting indeed!

I have no idea personally, but as I can taste a difference in some different VGs and this means that it's not only glycerol and water, as also is evident by looking at VGs COAs, then as different taste, then there must be moleculare diffrences too. Also, per COA, some have 5 times more water in than others, although as that sounds high it isn't as in the realm of 0.02 to 0.12...(ED's 0.04 btw...)

Also, I just remembered the UK vendor piratesvape, which used to sell alchem nicselect, then he changed to swizz made CNT nic, diluted and distributed by nerudia UK(CNT is worlds biggest pharma-nic manufacturer according to some sources) and he made a post offering samples because he was so proud of this new nic which was more expensive but better in his opinion. His VG nic had a slight pinkish hue and the PG was extremely clear as water, with same nic batch(he posted a pic also to compare clear'ness of alchem vs cnt)...

 

[Kurt]

another possible source for Pink Nic From carolina Xtract website:

I certainly don't have the scientific chops to back this up. But maybe this is something @Kurt can sink his teeth into.

Interesting, if somewhat vague and undetermined. Sounds like they are implying a reaction with nitrogen gas. With what teeth I have left, I will try to see if I can find anything out. Unfortunately the FDA kicked most of them out.

 

[sketchness]

Here is the full text from Carolina Xtraction Technologies Corp CXTC

CXTC mentions that different "push gases" have different affects on Nicotine. What "push gas" should we use?
1. 5.0 Argon- Argon does not seem to react with anything including nicotine. Argon is the preferred storage gas for all nicotine products, because it will not change any of the properties of Nicotine out to many years. Argon is quite expensive, as a push gas because it does not compress to liquid and commercially available Argon cylinders do not "pump" much product. If you need to store liquid nicotine for extended periods, argon is best. If you need to move nicotine, other gasses work just as well and go much further at much less cost.

2. Nitrogen-Nitrogen is interesting because it is a cost effective "push gas" with interesting side-reactions to nicotine. The primary long term reaction is that nitrogen will impart clarity to 100MG/ML nicotine, a positive, and with time will impart a pink hue, possibly a negative. The color change seems to occur mainly in the VG component of the solution, however CXTC has noted certain positive changes to the nicotine properties under long term exposure to nitrogen.

3. Food/Medical -Grade CO2- Long term exposure to CO2 will impart a "golden" tint to all brands of nicotine. CO2 is an excellent choice of push gas when the cylinder will be completely pushed out with twenty days as long as you keep that cylinder around 70F (room temperature) and release the tank pressure after each use. Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.

 

[mhertz]

"CO2 will impart a golden tint to all brands of nicotine"... It sounds like it's some special reaction, though it is regular nic-oxides of nic/O2 reaction i.e. oxidized nic... They maybe mean CO2 will give less oxidation than regular oxygen in headspace? As why else use it... Or is it the O2 disolved in VG/PG already, though then not related to CO2? I'm guessing the former... Sorry if being a dumbass lol

The same with the nitrogen-nitrogen... They have a funny way of stating things... It will bring "clarity"??? So less oxidation, because headspace is purged and only O2 left in solution to react with nic. Then it can bring a pink hue... Still probably talking about the nic reacting with disolved O2 in VG and not a "special reaction" to nitrogen... Disclaimer: I don't pretend to know anything about this, and is purely offering un-confirmed and possibly false ramblings

 

[sketchness]

They use the CO2 to get the nicotine out of these. Thus why they call it a push gas. They are not using this to fill the headspace but to purge the vessel of nicotine. Just a thought. I am sure there are many reasons for a nic to be a funky color. This just might be why some are golden or pink.

Carolina Xtraction Technologies Corp CXTC

 

[mhertz]

I know, sorry... I know what push-gas is, but I agree bad wording... Pumping the wessel... the only place for O2 that needs pumping/purgin is the headspace isn't it... Golden tint, to me just sounds like regular nic-oxides... Btw, I updated my previous post with another comment...

Edit: Hmm, push-gas... I keep thinking "argon-purging"... So it's to dispense/push the nicotine out... I'm so sorry, i'm a ........ Sorry again!

Edit2: OK, sorry, know I get it... But the same still applies imho to my previous statements, the only change is the "refills" still keeps the headspace "clean"...

Edit3: I think I understand the CO2 issue now... The pumping out new liquid, also pumps slight O2 into the nic, hence oxidizes it into golden tint(color of slight oxidation; yellow - orange - brown, or something...)...

Edit4: Of course the nitrogen could be one of the things that could turn nic-oxides into pink, like Kurt thinks some things can do, or a direct nic/nitrogen reaction possibly?...

Anyway, I'm rambling... Sorry Thanks sketchness for posting.

 

[Kurt]

I don't have any answers here, I'm afraid. I see what is meant by push gas now...to push the nicotine out of the tank container and avoid contact with air. I doubt N2 is reacting at all, its just too inert. CO2 reacting? Maybe under pressure and the right temperature with the OHs in VG...but PG has OHs too. Maybe the CO2 does have trace O2. If it is reagent grade it shouldn't. But I really do not know what would be causing pink.

How is CXTC nic? Is it as clean as what is implied in their website?

 

[sketchness]

I don't have any answers here, I'm afraid. I see what is meant by push gas now...to push the nicotine out of the tank container and avoid contact with air. I doubt N2 is reacting at all, its just too inert. CO2 reacting? Maybe under pressure and the right temperature with the OHs in VG...but PG has OHs too. Maybe the CO2 does have trace O2. If it is reagent grade it shouldn't. But I really do not know what would be causing pink.

How is CXTC nic? Is it as clean as what is implied in their website?

Their nic is fantastic. If you are part of the flavorless fan club. I liked it so well I immediately bought a liter. Packed in glass and wrapped to survive the usps war zone.

 

[Kurt]

Their nic is fantastic. If you are part of the flavorless fan club. I liked it so well I immediately bought a liter. Packed in glass and wrapped to survive the usps war zone.

Thanks, but what do you mean by fantastic? I guess what I am wondering is if it is an "invisible" nic, that is, no taste, TH or pepper effect. Ultra-clean. Or is it a nic that lets you know it is there, beyond the psychoactive effects? I like unflavored vaping, but fantastic for me me for that purpose often has a pronounced taste and a bit of oxidation. That said, for the prices they are asking, and the high level of O2 protection, it better be clean as a whistle. I may get a 120 mL sample to try. I like the idea of an American extracted nic, and the last one I tried was too rough even for me.

 

[mhertz]

I would love to try it because they don't use kerosene/heptane or whatever, but supercritical extraction or what it's called with just water and preasure(like VG hydrolosis of veg-oils it sorta sounds like). I can tell a bad bitter/alkaline taste in most of the nics i've tried, and at first I thought it was the taste of nic, but found e.g. nicobrand UK and J&G from china which didn't have that taste at all.

They don't deliver to me sadly... It is beginning to take the crown of most clean nics over VT and nude at some places...

I remember how sketchness feels about this nic, but will let him answer that of course...

 

[sketchness]

no pepper taste, throat hit is super mellow at 12mg compared to others. It lets you know 12mgs of nic is knocking on the door, but in the smoothest way possible. It has the clean taste very similar to nude nicotine, but at 12mg nude has more of a scratchy quality to the throat hit than carolina. Carolina is very clean no off flavor, i get a subtle tobacco taste from it vaped unflavored. And I get much more tobacco taste from every other brand I have tried. And I have tried a bunch. I participated on the blind taste test in this thread. plus WL, RTS, NicotineRiver's nicselect offering, Heartland vapes nic offering, VT Throat Hit nic, nude, xtreme vaping, whatever vaping zone has, Regular VT.

if you decide to pull the trigger on some carolina " Dada1 " gives you a discount. make sure you capitalize the first D or it wont work.

edit: and I mostly drip and this one I can drip at 12mg no problem.

 

[JeremyR]

So back to Nicotine Comparisons can anyone tell me aside from nicselect (not going to pay that much) what are the clearest, least peppery/mild nics out there currently? If you don't want to say what you think here-- PM me. Things I don't like: peppery, pink nic, kerosene-ish smell, overly expensive.

I also participated in the taste test and in addition had : mfs, wl, rts, usaln, and ecx nic select.

Nicselect is one of the cheaper ones if bought from ecx. Not a whole lot cheaper out there but vt th.. It Fits the bill i think, the vg had a pinkish hue which doesnt seem to hurt a thing. Not completely tasteless but not peppery while maintaining a th. Good nic taste, not tasteless.

Rts is probably very good for you, but price is higher. One of the clearest i have, with a clean taste; not peppery, not chemical, with a medium hit.

So your left with nude nic, VT, and carolina i believe. Anyone have another option for shilo i may have missed?

(Usaln is super clear but has varied reports and off tastes of chemical)

 

[YoursTruli]

Yes ... VT Premium is very good choice.

Transfer to glass with polycone caps.

Thanks so much for the advice on this I purchased a liter of VT Premium and it is such a super clean nic, crystal clear, barely any odor at 100ml/mg and at 3-6 mg/ml super smooth, really it's tasteless and so much better than the MFS nic I had purchased previously. I plan on buying another liter or 2 and selling the MFS to a friend.

 

[BuGlen]

First, let me say that this thread has some awesome information. I've been vaping pre-made liquids for over 4 years now, and with the pending FDA disaster I decided to prepare for the worst and hope/work for the best. Since the nicotine supply is probably the most immediate concern, I'm thinking I will order the following items in June:

• 1 gallon: of Nude Nicotine - Nude Armor V3
• 100 pcs: 50 ml Amber Euro Glass Bottle with White Dropper Cap

I do have a couple of specific questions:

• What's a good online source for reasonable lab glassware & safety equipment?
• In relation to the first question, which equipment should be considered for safety when handling 100mg nic solution, beyond safety glasses / goggles & latex gloves?
• Would my normal freezer (side by side fridge) set at 0 degrees Fahrenheit work for long term storage, or should I consider a small chest type deep freezer?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice you have for this newbie!

 

[Rossum]

I do have a couple of specific questions:

• What's a good online source for reasonable lab glassware & safety equipment?
• In relation to the first question, which equipment should be considered for safety when handling 100mg nic solution, beyond safety glasses / goggles & latex gloves?
• Would my normal freezer (side by side fridge) set at 0 degrees Fahrenheit work for long term storage, or should I consider a small chest type deep freezer?

Why do you think you need "lab glassware" and "safety equipment"? I just wear my normal glasses and latex gloves. The only piece of "lab glassware" I use is a 250 ml graduated cylinder from Amazon.

The freezer compartment of your regular refrigerator/freezer is certainly much better than no freezer at all, but it is not optimal. Almost all modern refrigerator/freezers have "frost free" freezer sections. This results in some temperature cycling. How much will that affect the nic base in long term storage? I really don't know. Over a period of a few years, I suspect it's negligible, but over a period of decades...?

 

[BuGlen]

Why do you think you need "lab glassware" and "safety equipment"? I just wear my normal glasses and latex gloves. The only piece of "lab glassware" I use is a 250 ml graduated cylinder from Amazon.

The freezer compartment of your regular refrigerator/freezer is certainly much better than no freezer at all, but it is not optimal. Almost all modern refrigerator/freezers have "frost free" freezer sections. This results in some temperature cycling. How much will that affect the nic base in long term storage? I really don't know. Over a period of a few years, I suspect it's negligible, but over a period of decades...?

Thanks! The reason I asked about a source for "glassware" is because I thought maybe someone might have a suggestion or two. Amazon seems like a good bet for graduated cylinders, pipettes, and the lot so I'm sure I can find what I need there. I'll also look into small freezer options to see what's out there.

Thanks again!

 

[Rossum]

I'll also look into small freezer options to see what's out there.

I got mine on Amazon too. The one I got was a better deal then than it is now. Tip: Search for "Medical Freezer"; they usually have a lock of some sort.

 

[Katya]

Their nic is fantastic. If you are part of the flavorless fan club. I liked it so well I immediately bought a liter. Packed in glass and wrapped to survive the usps war zone.

Sketchness, I found a sample bottle on their site (just popped out):

Carolina Xtraction Technologies Corp CXTC

Is that what you're using? 100 % PG? I've pretty much settlesd on Nude, I really like them, but I'm forever curious, so I'm tempted to order a small bottle.

 

[Katya]

First, let me say that this thread has some awesome information. I've been vaping pre-made liquids for over 4 years now, and with the pending FDA disaster I decided to prepare for the worst and hope/work for the best. Since the nicotine supply is probably the most immediate concern, I'm thinking I will order the following items in June:

• 1 gallon: of Nude Nicotine - Nude Armor V3

Blue, the V3 contains ascorbic acid to prevent oxidation. Just making sure that you're aware of this. Below is my conversation with Kurt on the subject:

Today I got an email from Nude Nicotine. They have Armor 3 nic with ascorbic acid added (vitamin C) to prevent oxidation.

Nude Armor V3 - Nude Nicotine

@Kurt and other chemists in the room. What do you think about ascorbic acid in your nic? Good, bad, overkill?

Ascorbic acid will react with O2, so maybe this is their strategy, but I don't know if it reacts with O2 faster than nicotine does. It will probably compete, however.

They claim a 0.01 w/v% of ascorbic acid. In 50 mL of base, this will be 5 mg ascorbic acid, or 2.8x10^-5 moles, which can react with, at most the same number of moles of O2. If that many moles of O2 reacted with nic, it would oxidize 4.7 mg of nic. This could, in principle, take care of the much of the O2 that is intrinsic with headspace and dissolved O2. But it is not enough to keep reacting with any additional incoming O2, I don't think. Once an asc acid molecule reacts, that's it, and it will not continue to scavenge O2. So it will not help with plastic bottles leaching O2 into them over long term. Ok with glass, I suppose. Shouldn't be enough to lower the pH much, so titration tests for nic concentration should be unchanged compared to without asc acid.

If you can notice 4.7 mg of oxidized nic in a 50 mL bottle of 100 mg/mL, then it might be worth it. For my taste, it is overkill, however.

I wonder if they did these calculations.