Nicotine Comparisons

[mhertz]

I've not tried CXTC either, but they apparently give COAs out with the product, and state on there site it's 99.86 or 99.96 pure or something, can't remember for sure, and we don't know exactly how that's meassured either unless seeing the COA.

There are impurities in all the nics, including CXTC, from the leaf and extraction material, though with CXTC, they apparently don't use normal hexane or whatever methods, which is the advantage. I'm personally pretty sure that a nic like nicselect is purer than CXTC, but the taste of the leftover extraction material, even though it's under detection limit of 0.05%, still can impart a taste, like with nicselect and other nics, and if that's void in the CXTC, which I believe, then that's a big plus regardless of actual purity. I would rather have slightly more other alkaloids than leftover extraction material i.e. more tobacco taste than chemical/funkyness.

 

[Vapntime]

I'm not sold that synthetic nicotine can, is or will be dangerous. I take synthetic medications every day. They are deemed 'safe' by the regulatory body. There are old studies on rats with the use of synthetic nicotine. The results were positive for synthetic nicotine only to a certain point that it still led to nitrosation of metabolically formed nornicotine. However, nornicotine, anabasine or anatabine were all found in the 'natural' nicotine of the day and in the rats urine after it was given.

This is just my 'research' and opinion and they are only rats, I'm not an expert but I believe we should give it a certain time and hopefully more research before we cross it off the list. However, that is easier for me in AUS, considering the issues with the FDA in the US.

Evidence for endogenous formation of tobacco-specific nitrosamines in rats treated with tobacco alkaloids and sodium nitrite. - PubMed - NCBI

The full study is available on the net somewhere I read it a day ago.

 

[Kurt]

I'm not sold that synthetic nicotine can, is or will be dangerous. I take synthetic medications every day. They are deemed 'safe' by the regulatory body. There are old studies on rats with the use of synthetic nicotine and the researchers didn't seem to pay any discussion to the fact it contained the (R,S)-nicotine. The results were positive for synthetic nicotine only to a certain point that it still led to nitrosation of metabolically formed nornicotine. However, nornicotine, anabasine or anatabine were all found in the 'natural' nicotine of the day and in the rats urine after it was given.

This is just my 'research' and opinion and they are only rats, I'm not an expert but I believe we should give it a certain time and hopefully more research before we cross it off the list. However, that is easier for me in AUS, considering the issues with the FDA in the US.

Evidence for endogenous formation of tobacco-specific nitrosamines in rats treated with tobacco alkaloids and sodium nitrite. - PubMed - NCBI

The full study is available on the net somewhere I read it a day ago.

This rat study used (S)-nic (l-nic), not racemic. They did pay attention, and they were clear in reporting it in the abstract. Synthetic l-nic is certainly available for research purposes, but it is wildly expensive. To say that synthetic racemic nic is fine because you take synthetic medications is not valid logic here, in my opinion. The majority of those meds are no doubt not racemic, rather they are one enantiomer (or diasteriomer). But that is not my point. My point is not that synth racemic nic is unsafe, although as I said, we do not know long-term multi-year effects (from the 50% d-nic), which have not been studied to my knowledge. My point is that is will be 50% d-nic. There is no USP monograph for racemic nicotine or d-nic, and USP l-nic requires a certain value for optical rotation (-130 to -143 degrees). Perhaps a monograph could be created by USP (would take years), but currently it is not possible to have USP grade racemic nicotine, since there are no USP standards for it. Since the process to produce it is different than extracting l-nic from tobacco, I would expect that other impurities could well be possibly present in the final product, and perhaps different than those commonly of concern in USP l-nic.

I am not saying racemic nic is dangerous, it is simply an unknown. Perhaps AU would treat it differently, but in the US, I don't expect the FDA to give a green light to it even if it is not from tobacco. USP grade would be the bare minimum they would allow, in my opinion, and I don't think they are interested in allowing something of unknown long term risks, however safe it may seem to be now, to be in the consumer market. This is why I think anyone marketing this racemic product now for vaping is not being wise.

 

[Rossum]

I am not saying racemic nic is dangerous, it is simply an unknown. Perhaps AU would treat it differently, but in the US, I don't expect the FDA to give a green light to it even if it is not from tobacco. USP grade would be the bare minimum they would allow, in my opinion, and I don't think they are interested in allowing something of unknown long term risks, however safe it may seem to be now, to be in the consumer market.

Would this not apply to virtually all flavored e-liquids as well, whether the contain any kind of nicotine or not?

This is why I think anyone marketing this racemic product now for vaping is not being wise.

On a more pragmatic basis: The FDA can (and probably will) decree that any nic that isn't a "tobacco product" is an unapproved drug.

 

[Vapntime]

This rat study used (S)-nic (l-nic), not racemic. They did pay attention, and they were clear in reporting it in the abstract. Synthetic l-nic is certainly available for research purposes, but it is wildly expensive. To say that synthetic racemic nic is fine because you take synthetic medications is not valid logic here, in my opinion. The majority of those meds are no doubt not racemic, rather they are one enantiomer (or diasteriomer). But that is not my point. My point is not that synth racemic nic is unsafe, although as I said, we do not know long-term multi-year effects (from the 50% d-nic), which have not been studied to my knowledge. My point is that is will be 50% d-nic. There is no USP monograph for racemic nicotine or d-nic, and USP l-nic requires a certain value for optical rotation (-130 to -143 degrees). Perhaps a monograph could be created by USP (would take years), but currently it is not possible to have USP grade racemic nicotine, since there are no USP standards for it. Since the process to produce it is different than extracting l-nic from tobacco, I would expect that other impurities could well be possibly present in the final product, and perhaps different than those commonly of concern in USP l-nic.

I am not saying racemic nic is dangerous, it is simply an unknown. Perhaps AU would treat it differently, but in the US, I don't expect the FDA to give a green light to it even if it is not from tobacco. USP grade would be the bare minimum they would allow, in my opinion, and I don't think they are interested in allowing something of unknown long term risks, however safe it may seem to be now, to be in the consumer market. This is why I think anyone marketing this racemic product now for vaping is not being wise.

Yep, you are correct, however, the Hiliq NTN does have USP certification, I'm still waiting on a answer from them regarding d-nic. Their are quite a few racemic medications, some are very common. I wasn't saying it was safe because other synthetics are. Just that it 'might' be and I wasn't going to write it off.
(Norvasc)
(Benzedrine)
(Marcain)
(Zyrtec / Reactine)
Chlorpheniramine (Chlor-Trimeton) )
(Celexa / Cipramil)
(Pondimin)
(Foradil)
(Advil / Motrin)
(Ketalar)
(Actron)
(Ritalin)
(Ixel / Savella)
(Provigil)
(Floxin)
(Prilosec)
(Ventolin)

 

[NGAHaze]

Geez, I knew I should have paid more attention in organic chemistry class ...

 

[quittingvegas]

Good evening folks. What's the latest opinon on my freedom smokes 100 mg nic? I persally have a stock of 50 mg from nude nicotine but I recently began mixing for some friends. If I continue to mix for them it's going to cut my nic supply down significantly. I'm a little scared of 100mg (hence the 50mg stock) but I have a limited area of storage so 100 mg it is. Looking for the best deal for decent tasting nic.

 

[Fozzy71]

Good evening folks. What's the latest opinon on my freedom smokes 100 mg nic? I persally have a stock of 50 mg from nude nicotine but I recently began mixing for some friends. If I continue to mix for them it's going to cut my nic supply down significantly. I'm a little scared of 100mg (hence the 50mg stock) but I have a limited area of storage so 100 mg it is. Looking for the best deal for decent tasting nic.

I have both Nude and MFS and didn't notice any difference at my 2 or 3 mg levels.

There isn't much to be concerned about with 100mg as long as you follow basic chemical safety steps: safety glasses, latex gloves and long sleeves. Ditch the gloves once done with the nic and if you want you can put on a fresh pair of gloves when doing flavors to be sure any nic that might have been on your gloves and ended up in your working area won't get on your hands when working with flavors. And obv wash your hands thoroughly once done with your mixing.

 

[Vinnybagodoughnuts]

I just got a liter of 100 mg Nic from MFS. Like Fozzy it looks and tastes fine to me mixed at 3 mg.I add my nicotine last so I can be sure my mixing station is clean and safe.

 

[Fozzy71]

....I add my nicotine last so I can be sure my mixing station is clean and safe.

good idea, need to reverse my order. will try and remember that when I make my next few testers this weekend.

 

[Fozzy71]

Good evening folks. What's the latest opinon on my freedom smokes 100 mg nic? I persally have a stock of 50 mg from nude nicotine but I recently began mixing for some friends. If I continue to mix for them it's going to cut my nic supply down significantly. I'm a little scared of 100mg (hence the 50mg stock) but I have a limited area of storage so 100 mg it is. Looking for the best deal for decent tasting nic.

I have both Nude and MFS and didn't notice any difference at my 2 or 3 mg levels.
...

I should also mention I tested both unflavored at 3mg and couldn't really notice any difference between the two or from the unflavored 0mg I keep on hand for vaping on my drippers between flavor tests occasionally. I don't have the most discriminating taste buds so YMMV.

 

[quittingvegas]

Thank you. I will be placing my order soon.

 

[IDJoel]

@quittingvegas I have not used MFS so I can't offer an opinion. But, if you are shopping for good/reasonable quality at a reasonable price, I have found both Heartland Vapes and RTS Vapes to be very satisfactory products (I am a vaper who does NOT like throat hit/prefers smooth nic). RTS is not a bargain right now ($99/L) but Heartland is still cheap ($45/L). I have vaped Wizard Labs, RTS, and Heartland. Heartland is my favorite to date. It is smooth, clean, and affordable. That said; I think you are buying at a good time. I believe you will see some decent sales this week.
Good luck with your shopping!

 

[r77r7r]

Hilliq is discussing ntn over on their thread @ AVF.... (AUSSIE)

 

[quittingvegas]

Thanks guys. MFS just listed nic 1 liter for $30 with coupon code.

 

[Fozzy71]

Thanks guys. MFS just listed nic 1 liter for $30 with coupon code.

ummmm.... what is the code?

 

[fgarvin]

ummmm.... what is the code?

Use code: BFNIC
Black Friday Deals

 

[B2L]

Use coupon code POLITICALTHANKSGIVING for 30% off on NN nic base, starts at midnight tonight through midnight Monday. It includes their new salts which I just may try.

 

[BuGlen]

Use coupon code POLITICALTHANKSGIVING for 30% off on NN nic base, starts at midnight tonight through midnight Monday. It includes their new salts which I just may try.

Just got the email for this sale a few minutes ago. Going to have to get another 2 half liters this weekend for my stash.

 

[BuGlen]

Use coupon code POLITICALTHANKSGIVING for 30% off on NN nic base, starts at midnight tonight through midnight Monday. It includes their new salts which I just may try.

Just got the email for this sale a few minutes ago. Going to have to get another 2 half liters this weekend for my stash.

I think I misinterpreted the effective date of the coupon code as being this morning instead of tonight. Has anyone else tried to use the coupon code today? I tried it for the Armor v2 (2 half liters) and it said the coupon doesn't apply to the items in my cart.

I'll try again tomorrow and see what happens.