Nicotine Comparisons

[Rossum]

My nic is staying in amber glass in the freezer but what makes everyone so sure that nic concentrate is so perishable?

I've seen 100mg base darken and become less than clean tasting in only a few months when stored at room temperature. This was in bottles that were only 1/4 to 1/3 full (the left-overs from the blind-test roughly 100 pages back in this thread). The three nics in plastic darkened the most, while the one in glass changed the least, but they all degraded some. Of course a bottle that's only 1/4 to 1/3 full has a lot more oxygen in it than one that's "full", so that was probably a worst-case scenario.

I also had a second 120ml plastic bottle of of one of those nics (VZ) that went straight into the freezer when I received it. I pulled it out and mixed with it about 9 months later and it was "good as new". Then there are the four 120ml plastic bottles (WL) I got in the spring of 2014 that has forgotten about in the bottom of my wife's big chest freezer. I found them again 2-1/2 years later. Figured they might be ruined, but I mixed one down anyway and it was also "good as new". I'm keeping the remaining three in the freezer as an experiment.

Thus my assessment is: Storage temperature plays a an important role; quite possibly more important that the type of bottle that the nic base is in. Also, more than a minimal amount of air in the bottle is bad.

There may be people hesitating to store nic because they don't want to put it in a freezer. May be it is a good gamble to get some nic even if it will be stored at room temperature?

I might take that gamble, but only if it's in glass and the bottles have minimal headspace, and only as a temporary measure. No way would I plan to keep it that way for a decade or more.

 

[sofarsogood]

I've seen 100mg base darken and become less than clean tasting in only a few months when stored at room temperature. This was in bottles that were only 1/4 to 1/3 full (the left-overs from the blind-test roughly 100 pages back in this thread). The three nics in plastic darkened the most, while the one in glass changed the least, but they all degraded some. Of course a bottle that's only 1/4 to 1/3 full has a lot more oxygen in it than one that's "full", so that was probably a worst-case scenario.

I also had a second 120ml plastic bottle of of one of those nics (VZ) that went straight into the freezer when I received it. I pulled it out and mixed with it about 9 months later and it was "good as new". Then there are the four 120ml plastic bottles (WL) I got in the spring of 2014 that has forgotten about in the bottom of my wife's big chest freezer. I found them again 2-1/2 years later. Figured they might be ruined, but I mixed one down anyway and it was also "good as new". I'm keeping the remaining three in the freezer as an experiment.

Thus my assessment is: Storage temperature plays a an important role; quite possibly more important that the type of bottle that the nic base is in. Also, more than a minimal amount of air in the bottle is bad.


I might take that gamble, but only if it's in glass and the bottles have minimal headspace, and only as a temporary measure. No way would I plan to keep it that way for a decade or more.

If nic can be in a freezer then that's where it should be but it would be a shame to see someone go without nic because they believe it is highly perishable because may be it's not. The cell wall theory of nic preservation in leaft tobacco is interesting but I'd like to have more explanation of how that works better than a sealed amber glass container at stored at room temperature.

 

[bsidb]

"Ask the Chemist"

 

[sofarsogood]

I'm going to be ordering another bottle of nic fairly soon. In that order I've decided I'll get a couple of 125 ml glass bottles and store nic in them at room temperature. I'll use clear glass instead of amber and wrap them in tin foil. That way I can inspect the color and if it appears to be changed I'll use it too mix a batch and see what I get. My stash has nic from two different suppliers just in case there is a problem with one of them (redundancy). If they hold up well at room temperature they should do even better at freezing temperatures. If they don't seem to be holding up I can end the experiment and consume them before they "spoil". My stocking goal is 10 years with a shot at 20 if nic and mods hold up better than planned.

I did some reading about pipe smokers who have stored tobacco for decades and say it is still fine so i'm not the only one to experience that.

 

[cigatron]

I've stored NicSelect 12mg/ml in both PG and VG base at room temp in a dark closet for a year with no problem. The nic comes in a while plastic container and I emptied them over time as I used them. Never noticed a change in flavor or throat hit really.
I do plan on storing nic in glass bottles in the freezer from now on though, due to the massive quantities I bought. At my current rate of consumption I bought enough for 10+ yrs.
The 3 ltrs of 100mg/ml I recently bought is from Heartlandvapes. Seems to have little if any taste or smell and low/medium th.

 

[Rossum]

I did some reading about pipe smokers who have stored tobacco for decades and say it is still fine so i'm not the only one to experience that.

I have little doubt it will retain most of its potency no matter how its stored. I think the question for us is more: What will it taste like? Someone who's getting their nic by smoking tobacco isn't going to notice whether the nic in it has oxidized. Heck, a bunch of it intrinsically gets oxidized in the combustion process!

 

[sofarsogood]

I've stored NicSelect 12mg/ml in both PG and VG base at room temp in a dark closet for a year with no problem. The nic comes in a while plastic container and I emptied them over time as I used them. Never noticed a change in flavor or throat hit really.
I do plan on storing nic in glass bottles in the freezer from now on though, due to the massive quantities I bought. At my current rate of consumption I bought enough for 10+ yrs.
The 3 ltrs of 100mg/ml I recently bought is from Heartlandvapes. Seems to have little if any taste or smell and low/medium th.

My 250 ml active nic bottle holds a year supply. My hunch is I could keep it at room temp without problems. If nic degrades slightly in potency over time may be the answer is to incease the percent slightly to compensate. What's massive? 2 liters should last me 10 years. My daily mls have declined from 7 to 5 and nic along with it but not sure if that will stick. My plan is 5 liters, two redundant supplies.

 

[Rossum]

I've stored NicSelect 12mg/ml in both PG and VG base at room temp in a dark closet for a year with no problem. The nic comes in a while plastic container and I emptied them over time as I used them. Never noticed a change in flavor or throat hit really.
I do plan on storing nic in glass bottles in the freezer from now on though, due to the massive quantities I bought. At my current rate of consumption I bought enough for 10+ yrs.

You can't really compare what has happened with 12mg base to what would happen with 100mg base under the same conditions. All other things being equal, the lower the nic concentration, the slower it seems to degrade. I used to store bottles of 15 mg unflavored base at room temperature as well, and noticed very little change over a period of 6-9 months. It's never really made sense to me why this is, but it definitely appears to be so.

 

[sofarsogood]

I have little doubt it will retain most of its potency no matter how its stored. I think the question for us is more: What will it taste like? Someone who's getting their nic by smoking tobacco isn't going to notice whether the nic in it has oxidized. Heck, a bunch of it intrinsically gets oxidized in the combustion process!

I don't think we disagree except may be a little on emphasis. I don't want to overestimate the complexity of storing nic long term because that might discourage some people from stocking. There is a tendency on the forum to overcomplicate mixing which probably discourages some people from giving that a try.

Right now we know more about storing nic frozen than we do about storing at room temperature. It's probably important to know about both.

 

[cigatron]

You can't really compare what has happened with 12mg base to what would happen with 100mg base under the same conditions. All other things being equal, the lower the nic concentration, the slower it seems to degrade. I used to store bottles of 15 mg unflavored base at room temperature as well, and noticed very little change over a period of 6-9 months. It's never really made sense to me why this is, but it definitely appears to be so.

Hmmm, I kind of figured the higher concentration the nic the longer it would store. My reasoning was that nic diluted into VG/PG would have more oxygen molecules to react with thereby causing a more rapid oxidation. Guess I was wrong about that.

 

[aikanae1]

I think freezing slows down molecules significantly = less reactions, including air, plastic etc. I'm not sure about light since that's another one of nic's "deadly sins"; heat, light, air.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[sofarsogood]

I read something from RTS vapes that their nic concentrate product that's higher than 100 mg would change color over time more noticably, not because it's aging faster but because there is a higher concentration of nic to show the color change.

 

[kiba]

I'm going to be ordering another bottle of nic fairly soon. In that order I've decided I'll get a couple of 125 ml glass bottles and store nic in them at room temperature. I'll use clear glass instead of amber and wrap them in tin foil. That way I can inspect the color and if it appears to be changed I'll use it too mix a batch and see what I get. My stash has nic from two different suppliers just in case there is a problem with one of them (redundancy). If they hold up well at room temperature they should do even better at freezing temperatures. If they don't seem to be holding up I can end the experiment and consume them before they "spoil". My stocking goal is 10 years with a shot at 20 if nic and mods hold up better than planned.

I did some reading about pipe smokers who have stored tobacco for decades and say it is still fine so i'm not the only one to experience that.

I've had nic go bad as fast as 30 days at room temperature, just out of the stuff I'd thawed out for use... you'll be able to smell it before it goes all peppery. If you notice it before that you can put it back in the freezer and it's still usable, but I've thrown a lot of nic away bc of that, usually the last 5 or so mL's out of 30 what I thawed out to mix.

 

[cigatron]

I've had nic go bad as fast as 30 days at room temperature, just out of the stuff I'd thawed out for use... you'll be able to smell it before it goes all peppery. If you notice it before that you can put it back in the freezer and it's still usable, but I've thrown a lot of nic away bc of that, usually the last 5 or so mL's out of 30 what I thawed out to mix.

Wow @kiba , that's fast. All my juices are 3nic so I figure I can just mix up my 75vg 3nic base a liter at a time and use it up before going back to the freezer for more nic. 1 liter of 3nic base will last me about 40 days. I hope this new nic from Heartlandvapes lasts at least that long stored at room temp in a dark place.

 

[kiba]

Wow @kiba , that's fast. All my juices are 3nic so I figure I can just mix up my 75vg 3nic base a liter at a time and use it up before going back to the freezer for more nic. 1 liter of 3nic base will last me about 40 days. I hope this new nic from Heartlandvapes lasts at least that long stored at room temp in a dark place.

Yeah, it could be bc of humidity or weather... I live in what used to be a swamp. I don't do the base thing bc I mix at different pg/vg levels and nic %'s but I always use nude nic though and it tastes fine as long as I only thaw out like 20ml at a time. I don't use much so it lasts me and my gf a while.

 

[Rossum]

Right now we know more about storing nic frozen than we do about storing at room temperature. It's probably important to know about both.

I may start an experiment in a couple of weeks. The plan is to take some of my existing nic stock and rebottle in two clear 120ml clear glass bottles. One of them will go back in the freezer, the other will be kept at room temperature, in a "tin" box. The plan is to compare their appearance periodically without having to open them.

 

[sofarsogood]

I've had nic go bad as fast as 30 days at room temperature, just out of the stuff I'd thawed out for use... you'll be able to smell it before it goes all peppery. If you notice it before that you can put it back in the freezer and it's still usable, but I've thrown a lot of nic away bc of that, usually the last 5 or so mL's out of 30 what I thawed out to mix.

May be the RTS chemist would tell us how they store nic in it's various forms. They probably have a barrel of 100%. Is it kept in cold storage? They may or may not inventory the diluted concentrates so shelf life for that mighht not be an issue. But that still gets back to my earliest question which is why nic seems to hold up so well in pipe and cigar tobacco compared to what we believe about extracted nicotine.

 

[cigatron]

I may start an experiment in a couple of weeks. The plan is to take some of my existing nic stock and rebottle in two clear 120ml clear glass bottles. One of them will go back in the freezer, the other will be kept at room temperature, in a "tin" box. The plan is to compare their appearance periodically without having to open them.

I'm sure we would all appreciate the results of an experiment like that.

 

[dansus]

The nic salts from Nude seem to get better with age, not worse. I keep it in the fridge.

 

[Mactavish]

Storing Your Nicotine Solution - Nude Nicotine