I also have some concerns about sterility, but I actually hesitate to post for the same reasons that I stay out of the health forums. But its worth thinking about.
Nicotine Comparisons
- Thread starter Cyrus Vap
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My understanding was that most vendors that claim their nic is "USP" are actually saying it meets USP standards, NOT that it is legally certified as such?
To be honest, such certification wouldn't make me feel any more or less safe, even if it extended to the packaging room etc. The repackaging and dilution issue is real. And I'm very familiar with how facilities behave before, during, and after they know an inspector is coming.
There is a bit of faith involved regardless of who our source and certifier is. There's just no way around it. If someone I have decided to trust like Wizard tells me their nic meets USP standards, I'm cool with it until I see an option that makes me feel safer I guess.
Wolcen I meant RTS of course, not you. Some of the words in the quote you posted seemed relevant to some concerns raised in this thread
To the best of my understanding (in reading elsewhere):
USP cannot only precede a monographed chemical name if the product IS (not just "meets standards of") USP grade - this implies lab manufacturing process and equipment certification, etc. in addition to required assays of the drug. There are legal ramifications to not following this practice and that is enforced by the FDA.
All final products we vape are not USP. They may "contain these USP ingredients" however. If you repackaged pure USP nic, you may not resell it as USP nicotine unless your facility has been verified as a location suitable to do so.
That's just it. The FDA has not regulated anything in the vaping industry yet.
That's my understanding too, and for all I know I learned it from you
But who actually labels their nic as such? e.g. "L-Nicotine, USP" or whatever the appropriate label would be? I don't think I've seen anyone trying to pull that one off yet.
EDIT: But I have seen semi incomprehensible references to USP, is what I'm saying. Hence my liberal interpretation above, "this stuff complies with USP standards, now buy my product."
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The USP's FAQ
The referenced acts [i.e. FDA enforcement] can be found in the FDA's legislative catalog.
The referenced acts [i.e. FDA enforcement] can be found in the FDA's legislative catalog.
Thank you Cyrus Vap and everyone else. I learned alot.
I placed my first nic order in July 2012, knowing quickly thats the way to go with vaping. I ordered from RTS, was happy to see Made in the USA, and was satisfied with the nic. Good TH, but, it wasn't clear. It worked and i used it up.
My next order i tryed Wizard and it was clear. But, to me it didn't seem as much TH. It also worked and i used it up.
Now, im ready to start freezing and storeing so, i order both, Wizard labs and RTS vapes, in 100mg/ml.
I placed my first nic order in July 2012, knowing quickly thats the way to go with vaping. I ordered from RTS, was happy to see Made in the USA, and was satisfied with the nic. Good TH, but, it wasn't clear. It worked and i used it up.
My next order i tryed Wizard and it was clear. But, to me it didn't seem as much TH. It also worked and i used it up.
Now, im ready to start freezing and storeing so, i order both, Wizard labs and RTS vapes, in 100mg/ml.
Why the picture with the bottles from RTS and Wizard will not upload, IDK.
But the picture on the left is RTS, and the picture on the right is Wizard. The clarity of both is the same. I can't see any difference in clarity. I didn't notice any difference in smell, but, i didn't make any real effort to smell......wanted to get bottled and sealed up.
Not the exact picture i was hoping for, but it does work to show the nic i used.
be careful smelling that 100 mg, you can really end up feeling unwell lol
ask me how I know!thank you for documenting your adventures, please keep us posted as you go!
be careful smelling that 100 mg, you can really end up feeling unwell lol
thank you for documenting your adventures, please keep us posted as you go!
Thanks, I know, im good, not one drop lost.
Put the respirator and gloves in the picture so people would know. I do the liquids in my basement shop where i also have exhaust fan to the outside..........its a wood shop also.
I labeled the RTS and Wizard, but it will be months before i get to them....got much to use up first.
I have 36 mg VG nic from WL and MFS which I diluted with plain VG and distilled H2O to bring down to about 22 nic. Then, since I requested and received some Ultra Pure and Ice in 24 nic all VG (which after diluting with some distilled to make about 22 mg nic) I dripped some of each on my atty to do a taste test. These are all crystal clear of course, no flavor, no color, odor or taste...just throat hit LOL. Nothing scientific here, just curious if I'd notice any differences. I like them all and couldn't really discern anything different in any of them.
So, for price comparisons, cost savings, I'm thinking WL seems to have the best prices if I'm going to go for the 100 mg nic to dilute down to the strengths I want.
I've been afraid to order 100 nic from anywhere after my fiasco with ordering high nic bases from RTS and all were thick, dark yellowish brown, vomit smelling, oily goop which made all my DIY stuff awful. It turned me off doing DIY and I ended up throwing out tons of stuff. I never contacted the vendor. I just thought it was the way nic base comes.
Months later I found out otherwise by reading some threads here on ECF.
Can someone tell me, if I order 60 or 100 nic VG from Wizard, will it be dark amber or vomit smelling? I just want to be sure LOL. Or should I stick to 36 nic bases which are completely clear and no odors? Seriously, if I ever receive dark vomit smelling stuff ever again I'll go nuts LOL.
Thanks!
So, for price comparisons, cost savings, I'm thinking WL seems to have the best prices if I'm going to go for the 100 mg nic to dilute down to the strengths I want.
I've been afraid to order 100 nic from anywhere after my fiasco with ordering high nic bases from RTS and all were thick, dark yellowish brown, vomit smelling, oily goop which made all my DIY stuff awful. It turned me off doing DIY and I ended up throwing out tons of stuff. I never contacted the vendor. I just thought it was the way nic base comes.
Months later I found out otherwise by reading some threads here on ECF.
Can someone tell me, if I order 60 or 100 nic VG from Wizard, will it be dark amber or vomit smelling? I just want to be sure LOL. Or should I stick to 36 nic bases which are completely clear and no odors? Seriously, if I ever receive dark vomit smelling stuff ever again I'll go nuts LOL.
Thanks!
I can't speak for Wizard Labs, per se, but I've used XtremeVaping nicotine, MFS and now, ECX.
All these liquids at 100 mg/ml came as clear. Nicotine can oxidize with time. The MFS I have has been refrigerated. I've had it the better part of a year and it has oxidized some and taken on a little color...just a little tan/yellowish. The ECX, I've put in my freezer for long term storage after using a small sample. It was good and clean. I think ECX's prices have come time in the past several months.
I don't think you'll have any problems with 60 or 100 mg/ml nicotine base from any of those three.
All these liquids at 100 mg/ml came as clear. Nicotine can oxidize with time. The MFS I have has been refrigerated. I've had it the better part of a year and it has oxidized some and taken on a little color...just a little tan/yellowish. The ECX, I've put in my freezer for long term storage after using a small sample. It was good and clean. I think ECX's prices have come time in the past several months.
I don't think you'll have any problems with 60 or 100 mg/ml nicotine base from any of those three.
There will likely always be smell and color if you're discerning (read: obsessive like me) about it, but its an issue of more or less
The higher the concentration, the more easily its going to become oxidized; simply more stuff around to react. It only takes a small amount of oxidation to yield a color that your eye can pick up. And the higher concentration bottle will be more sensitive to poor storage, handling etc --> more oxidation and color
Also the higher the concentration, the more odor you'll be able to pick up on for similar reasons. Nic has a smell by definition. Lower mg, less smell, higher mg, more smell.
But I agree there is a major problem when a 'new' bottle of nicotine comes amber colored, with offensive smell and taste (more than usual ). For me personally its the difference between having to strain my eyes and nose to pick up a tint and alkaline smell (new, properly stored, good stuff as I found from WL for example), vs. a nasty amber that beats my nose into submission the second I open the bottle. With some of the nics I reviewed, I really had to shove my nose into the danger zone to pick it up (don't recommend this), and tweak my eyes, pull out the white paper, etc. In other cases its more obvious and offensive.
I would order from WL, regular or ice, in 100 mg and expect nothing but perfectly clear and relatively odorless, or close enough to it for me to be happy. I say go for it.
The higher the concentration, the more easily its going to become oxidized; simply more stuff around to react. It only takes a small amount of oxidation to yield a color that your eye can pick up. And the higher concentration bottle will be more sensitive to poor storage, handling etc --> more oxidation and color
Also the higher the concentration, the more odor you'll be able to pick up on for similar reasons. Nic has a smell by definition. Lower mg, less smell, higher mg, more smell.
But I agree there is a major problem when a 'new' bottle of nicotine comes amber colored, with offensive smell and taste (more than usual
). For me personally its the difference between having to strain my eyes and nose to pick up a tint and alkaline smell (new, properly stored, good stuff as I found from WL for example), vs. a nasty amber that beats my nose into submission the second I open the bottle. With some of the nics I reviewed, I really had to shove my nose into the danger zone to pick it up (don't recommend this), and tweak my eyes, pull out the white paper, etc. In other cases its more obvious and offensive.I would order from WL, regular or ice, in 100 mg and expect nothing but perfectly clear and relatively odorless, or close enough to it for me to be happy. I say go for it.
I have 36 mg VG nic from WL and MFS which I diluted with plain VG and distilled H2O to bring down to about 22 nic. Then, since I requested and received some Ultra Pure and Ice in 24 nic all VG (which after diluting with some distilled to make about 22 mg nic) I dripped some of each on my atty to do a taste test. These are all crystal clear of course, no flavor, no color, odor or taste...just throat hit LOL. Nothing scientific here, just curious if I'd notice any differences. I like them all and couldn't really discern anything different in any of them.
So, for price comparisons, cost savings, I'm thinking WL seems to have the best prices if I'm going to go for the 100 mg nic to dilute down to the strengths I want.
I've been afraid to order 100 nic from anywhere after my fiasco with ordering high nic bases from RTS and all were thick, dark yellowish brown, vomit smelling, oily goop which made all my DIY stuff awful. It turned me off doing DIY and I ended up throwing out tons of stuff. I never contacted the vendor. I just thought it was the way nic base comes.
Months later I found out otherwise by reading some threads here on ECF.
Can someone tell me, if I order 60 or 100 nic VG from Wizard, will it be dark amber or vomit smelling? I just want to be sure LOL. Or should I stick to 36 nic bases which are completely clear and no odors? Seriously, if I ever receive dark vomit smelling stuff ever again I'll go nuts LOL.
Thanks!
I've also ordered from most places mentioned on here and Nothing has come close to how bad my nic was from RTS. I've just finished some excellent EXtremeV nic and am now using the great WL. I think that I'm going to just stick with WL just for the pricing.
Thanks Cool_Breeze, Cyrus, r777 and others. Good info here.
I'll be ordering 60 & 100 nic from WL (and maybe MFS, ECX when they have coupons) and feel secure in the knowledge that I won't be throwing any away in the future.
I'm loving my DIY experimenting more and more each day
Good info here. I'll be ordering 60 & 100 nic from WL (and maybe MFS, ECX when they have coupons) and feel secure in the knowledge that I won't be throwing any away in the future.
I'm loving my DIY experimenting more and more each day
searching - In case you missed this, here is a visual digest of Cyrus Vap's findings. Check the websites for current prices.
http://i.imgur.com/K79xk.png
http://i.imgur.com/K79xk.png
I have 36 mg VG nic from WL and MFS which I diluted with plain VG and distilled H2O to bring down to about 22 nic. Then, since I requested and received some Ultra Pure and Ice in 24 nic all VG (which after diluting with some distilled to make about 22 mg nic) I dripped some of each on my atty to do a taste test. These are all crystal clear of course, no flavor, no color, odor or taste...just throat hit LOL. Nothing scientific here, just curious if I'd notice any differences. I like them all and couldn't really discern anything different in any of them.
So, for price comparisons, cost savings, I'm thinking WL seems to have the best prices if I'm going to go for the 100 mg nic to dilute down to the strengths I want.
I've been afraid to order 100 nic from anywhere after my fiasco with ordering high nic bases from RTS and all were thick, dark yellowish brown, vomit smelling, oily goop which made all my DIY stuff awful. It turned me off doing DIY and I ended up throwing out tons of stuff. I never contacted the vendor. I just thought it was the way nic base comes.
Months later I found out otherwise by reading some threads here on ECF.
Can someone tell me, if I order 60 or 100 nic VG from Wizard, will it be dark amber or vomit smelling? I just want to be sure LOL. Or should I stick to 36 nic bases which are completely clear and no odors? Seriously, if I ever receive dark vomit smelling stuff ever again I'll go nuts LOL.
Thanks!
Hi searching,
As of 11-25-12 when i recieved mine in 100mg/ml. Both wizard and rts were crystal clear.
I saw that RTs added an xtra step to their process now. For me, clarity comes last. I Need tasteless and odorless primarily.
I've purchased 3 "brands" of 100mg and 36mg juice from WL.. Regular, Ice(which you have to request) and 36mg Ultra Pure. They have all been crystal clear, no yellowing, and all "taste" almost tasteless, if that makes any sense diluted down to 24mg/ml. I tested all 3 at 24mg/ml to compare and contrast them. I found them to be almost identical and also tested the correct nic level.
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