I've spent way too many hours on ECF reading up on this stuff, lol. There's a really long thread about burning cartomizers, and I've gotten through most of it. This is where my hunt started, and then found tips here & there to lead me to others. They are great, one of them is identical with the tip, the others have the standard carto tip. I'm babying all of them, I have so many juices & cartos that I just rotate all of them, including bloog's, just to be safe. I'll vape one for a couple of hours, then switch to another.
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I've spent way too many hours on ECF reading up on this stuff, lol. There's a really long thread about burning cartomizers, and I've gotten through most of it. This is where my hunt started, and then found tips here & there to lead me to others. They are great, one of them is identical with the tip, the others have the standard carto tip. I'm babying all of them, I have so many juices & cartos that I just rotate all of them, including bloog's, just to be safe. I'll vape one for a couple of hours, then switch to another.
Forgive me if I'm being redundant - I haven't finished reading this post. Just got to this statement and had to reply. There ARE other vendors carrying these EXACT same cartos - companies with far longer and better track records in the cs department. I've seen that Dr** from NH***** (one of the other vendors carrying these cartos) has been making quite a few of his own trips to China lately too - it's kinda funny though, that if you read through his subforum you don't find any posts asking "Where's Dr**?" or "What happened to CS?"
Just sayin'...
Hey Michelle - good info, and sorry I guess I did jump the gun with my previous post before reading through your comments here - lol. But I do commend you for bringing the alternatives to light.
I think what you mention about the mfs having silicone rings could be significant. I'm by far no expert, but I do recall reading another thread recently (wish I could remember where) about silicone breaking down and giving off formaldehyde vapors if it got hot enough. Any chance this could be the cause of the funky cartos and breathing problems some are experiencing with these?
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Hey Michelle - good info, and sorry I guess I did jump the gun with my previous post before reading through your comments here - lol. But I do commend you for bringing the alternatives to light.
I think what you mention about the mfs having silicone rings could be significant. I'm by far no expert, but I do recall reading another thread recently (wish I could remember where) about silicone breaking down and giving off formaldehyde vapors if it got hot enough. Any chance this could be the cause of the funky cartos and breathing problems some are experiencing with these?
Thanks, I only know what i can see. Dont know what the white ones exactly are made of. Just know they are awsome!
Yes, silicones release formaldehyde under heat. We still have no idea what is mixed with the silicone adhesive, but it'll outgas too. I'll provide the data, people can decide if they want to be concerned.
Source: Material Safety Data Sheet for any silicone
"When heated to temperatures above 302F in the presence of air, product can form formaldehyde vapors. Formaldehyde is a potential cancer hazard, a known skin and respiratory sensitizer, and an irritant to the eyes, nose, throat, skin, and digestive system. Safe handling conditions may be maintained by keeping vapor concentrations within the OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit for formaldehyde."
Source: Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
"Formaldehyde is a sensitizing agent that can cause an immune system response upon initial exposure. It is also a suspected human carcinogen that is linked to nasal cancer and lung cancer. Acute exposure is highly irritating to the eyes, nose, and throat and can make you cough and wheeze. Subsequent exposure may cause severe allergic reactions of the skin, eyes, and respiratory tract."
Source: International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)
classified in 2009 as a "known human carcinogen"
Source: GE Silicones
Formaldehyde generation caused by thermal breakdown. Note: the tested silicone was able to withstand ~500F. According to MahBohMan, this carto's silicone melts well below 500F, so the formaldehyde ppm values for the carto may be higher than shown here.
302F - 0.000002 ppm
392F - 0.001 ppm
437F - 0.1 ppm (irritation starts here)
482F - 0.26 ppm
509F - 1.01 ppm
572F - 19 ppm
608F - 87 ppm
Source: MahBohMan
bloog battery measured at 280F - 460F
"this particular silicone plug will melt at MUCH lower temps than 500F"
(fully charged non-bloog battery is hotter by an unknown amount).
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
8 hour exposure: average 0.75 ppm
short-term exposure: 2 ppm total in 15 minutes
CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
8 hour exposure: average 0.016 ppm
ceiling concentration: 0.1 ppm - not to be exceeded at any time
IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health): 20ppm
Source: Material Safety Data Sheet for any silicone
"When heated to temperatures above 302F in the presence of air, product can form formaldehyde vapors. Formaldehyde is a potential cancer hazard, a known skin and respiratory sensitizer, and an irritant to the eyes, nose, throat, skin, and digestive system. Safe handling conditions may be maintained by keeping vapor concentrations within the OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit for formaldehyde."
Source: Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
"Formaldehyde is a sensitizing agent that can cause an immune system response upon initial exposure. It is also a suspected human carcinogen that is linked to nasal cancer and lung cancer. Acute exposure is highly irritating to the eyes, nose, and throat and can make you cough and wheeze. Subsequent exposure may cause severe allergic reactions of the skin, eyes, and respiratory tract."
Source: International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)
classified in 2009 as a "known human carcinogen"
Source: GE Silicones
Formaldehyde generation caused by thermal breakdown. Note: the tested silicone was able to withstand ~500F. According to MahBohMan, this carto's silicone melts well below 500F, so the formaldehyde ppm values for the carto may be higher than shown here.
302F - 0.000002 ppm
392F - 0.001 ppm
437F - 0.1 ppm (irritation starts here)
482F - 0.26 ppm
509F - 1.01 ppm
572F - 19 ppm
608F - 87 ppm
Source: MahBohMan
bloog battery measured at 280F - 460F
"this particular silicone plug will melt at MUCH lower temps than 500F"
(fully charged non-bloog battery is hotter by an unknown amount).
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
8 hour exposure: average 0.75 ppm
short-term exposure: 2 ppm total in 15 minutes
CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
8 hour exposure: average 0.016 ppm
ceiling concentration: 0.1 ppm - not to be exceeded at any time
IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health): 20ppm
I had two experiences with them, both with not so good customer service. I placed an order and did not receive confirmations/updates. I called repeatedly with no luck, fortunately the order arrived. Then, I emailed them a question. After a considerable delay, they suggested I buy a product from them that they no longer even carried...go figure.
SILICONE = BAAADDDD
I don't really want these cartomizers with that kind of info.... this should be addressed, I'll repost it in the carto threads
I don't really want these cartomizers with that kind of info.... this should be addressed, I'll repost it in the carto threads
Shipped out the same day. Just checked the tracking #, and it has arrived at the Post office here in Charleston. Not bad.
We aren't gone, KF.I apologize again for my absence, and if you give me your order number I will look into it for you.
Cryx, you do realize that your own body produces formaldehyde as a byproduct of metabolism, right? And that cigarettes also contain formaldehyde? That it's in the air you breathe (around 0.03ppm)? As well as orange juice, and many other foods (naturally, not added). And the potential cancer risk is still unproven, and is only correlated with heavy long term industrial or occupational exposure, such as embalmers who are constantly around the fumes. Not to dismiss your concerns, just trying to put them in perspective.I am seriously looking at this issue. I've been looking at their manufacturing methods to see if they can dispense with the adhesive. I'm also having low resistance sample cartos made without adhesive and will test them on 5v with 100%VG e-liquid to see if we still get the burnt taste or not. I'm also still trying to get the MSDS sheets and any other safety info the supplier may have on the materials used. So, I'm not ignoring your concerns. But I don't think formaldehyde in particular is as scary as you seem to think it is.
About testing with 100% VG, you should probably look at this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...autopsy-parts-explenation-28.html#post2823888
It would seem, to me, the problem only occurs when the coil is too far down the sleeve, too close to the adhesive.
If it's in the right position, there should be no problems, so it may be more a QC issue.
That's a possibility, Pmos. Would explain why it's so hard to consistently reproduce the problem by manipulating the resistance, voltage, etc.
But still, the most consistent and reliable way to get the burnt taste that I've found is to combine a low resistance carto, 2.0ohm or below, with a high voltage battery (5v), and with 100%VG. That's without any alteration to the cartos.
But still, the most consistent and reliable way to get the burnt taste that I've found is to combine a low resistance carto, 2.0ohm or below, with a high voltage battery (5v), and with 100%VG. That's without any alteration to the cartos.
You can see the other thread for my thoughts on why is there even a remote chance of a carcinogen being produced in these cartos. It's easy to fix.
Instead of a vertical slit on the tube, why not cut the into the side of the tube at a slight upwards angle, slide the wick into it, and then the wires will hold the guts in place? That's what I did to one of mine. No worries about the coil contacting the silicone sleeve. It might not prevent the wires from scorching the sleeve, but I feel a little better about it in this configuration.
Oh, in China the air might be 30ppb (probably far worse!), but it's more like single digit where I live.
Instead of a vertical slit on the tube, why not cut the into the side of the tube at a slight upwards angle, slide the wick into it, and then the wires will hold the guts in place? That's what I did to one of mine. No worries about the coil contacting the silicone sleeve. It might not prevent the wires from scorching the sleeve, but I feel a little better about it in this configuration.
Oh, in China the air might be 30ppb (probably far worse!), but it's more like single digit where I live.
It must be nice to have clean air to breathe when you walk out side. The air where I live isn’t so nice, too much freaking dust in the air, to many people, cars, lack of quality public transportation. lol even the dust could be qualified as toxic. Oh to have a job and live somewhere where the air is clean. (Yes it is not as bad as China, LA, NYC but still you get the picture.)
Sorry, that figure was drawn from the National Cancer Society, so it's US, not China: "According to a 1997 report by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, formaldehyde is normally present in both indoor and outdoor air at low levels, usually less than 0.03 parts of formaldehyde per million parts of air (ppm). " Formaldehyde and Cancer Risk - National Cancer Institute
And although they measure it in ng not ppm, so someone else would have to do the match to check if the concentrations match the above, this study implies that atmospheric formaldehyde levels are relatively similar world wide: "Ambient air samples (n=89) were collected between May 2003 and May 2004 in Izmir, Turkey to investigate the gas/particle partitioning of formaldehyde (HCHO). Average gas-phase formaldehyde (HCHO) concentrations (7.3±6.5 μg m−3, average±SD) were within the range previously measured at different sites around the world. " ScienceDirect - Atmospheric Environment : Phase partitioning of atmospheric formaldehyde in a suburban atmosphere
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For us who are not good with this math, what would the occassional bloog carto be giving off? I say occassional cause it seems only the ones that are defective rather then all of them.
My hair is already going grey. But I find all of tech and chemistry interesting (most of the time). I run a water utility, so I know how 1ppm (think one penny in a pile of a million pennies) of a dangerous contaminant can jeopardize public safety. We do need to keep an eye on what we are inhaling here. Though I find it VERY hard to believe that any carto could be anywhere near as damaging as the crap we inhaled from the analogs all those years has been.
Did you know that street gangs often break into funeral parlors to steal embalming fluid. Which they then dip cigarettes in and smoke. It literally "pickles" their brains. Formaldehyde = Bad. Even if you are normally exposed to it in small quantities in the air, more is not a good thing. Think xrays, catscans, MRI's. Used in very controlled quantities they are great tools. But, the more radiation you are exposed to, the harder it is on your body's cells.
Did you know that street gangs often break into funeral parlors to steal embalming fluid. Which they then dip cigarettes in and smoke. It literally "pickles" their brains. Formaldehyde = Bad. Even if you are normally exposed to it in small quantities in the air, more is not a good thing. Think xrays, catscans, MRI's. Used in very controlled quantities they are great tools. But, the more radiation you are exposed to, the harder it is on your body's cells.
Similarly, Flouride is a poison. But, we put that into water on purpose to strengthen teeth and bones. In small amounts, the benefits outweigh the risks. In larger amounts in mottles the teeth and creates other serious health effects.
If my choices are between the crap I got from the analogs and a few trace amounts of similar chemicals in e-cig cartos... I'm going with the cartos... but that's just me.
If my choices are between the crap I got from the analogs and a few trace amounts of similar chemicals in e-cig cartos... I'm going with the cartos... but that's just me.
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