nothing is really satisfying

[FireDragon1138]

I haven't been scrolling over your posts- I've actually been reading them carefully and I agree with you, at least in my limited experience. I tried 18mg and that's just too much. With indoor smoking with an e-cig, I end up getting too big of a hit all at once and it leaves me jittery. 8-12mg seems my sweet spot, and that is with just an eGo or cigalike.

I'm not on any fibro meds, I just take the cbd, a hemp extract, as needed. There are even people that vape this stuff, but I won't go there as I don't believe the available formulations are up to snuff (too scared of stuff like pneumonia etc. to be inhaling anything with oil).

 

[FireDragon1138]

I used a Kanger KR808 bottom coil cartomizer today attached to a Smokeless Image shorty battery. Compared to the Blu, refilling the Kanger cartomizers is a snap. I think in terms of performance, this might be my go-to vaporizer, as it seems to deliver, and the weight and feel of this setup comes closer to fooling my brain into thinking I've got a cigarette in my hands. I particularly like the fact it's a warm vape, as well, and combined with some PG-based juice, it delivers a nice throat hit. Now all I need to do is pair it with some Whole Tobacco Alkaloid, and I think I will have my "Analog Replacement".

I'm thinking seriously of whittling down my vaping collection to just the KR808 cigalike and the eGo and keeping it simple. KR808 when I really need a cig, and the eGo for the great modding support out there. And keep my Mistic around as a backup (of all the gas station brands, this one seems the best, too). My Blu only has the cool PCC going for it ,but as I said it's a pain to refill, the stock flavors are not so great (and selection is crap, 16mg is the only strength around here at gas stations and tobacco shops). 16mg is just too strong.

I am wondering if the fact I've been taking more CBD (cannabidiol) during the day, and at night (it helps me sleep), in the past week isn't predisposing me to get more addicted to the minor alkaloids in tobacco, and to miss them a lot in vaping. I will try to cut out the CBD in the morning and see how it goes.

I also believe with my eGo tank setup, I had improperly mixed some juice and there are pockets of 24mg juice floating around . That could explain the jitteriness. I was using 11mg unmixed juice ("Minty Marlboro", from a local Central Florida vape shop) instead today in the Kanger, and it seemed to hit a sweet spot and was more tolerable.

Today I got by with a lot less smoking, I chewed some Red Man (my S.O is crazy about this stuff) and that seemed to go a ways to quelling the need for cigs.

 

[Plumes.91]

Yes. I mainly DIY my own juice, and I have had problems with paranoia about whether or not I mixed the high mg base liquid well enough into the PG/VG and flavorings. This certainly does cause problems for me, like anxiety. I recommend you find a good e-liquid vendor that you truly enjoy and just buy their juice for a while, so you wont have to worrying about screwing up a batch and over-nic'ing. I recommend BWB but there are plenty of great liquid vendors advertising and posting in their own subforums here on ECF.

 

[CMHero]

FireDragon, I hope you read this cuz I had the same problem as you at first when trying to switch over to vaping. For me, it was mental. There was a part of me that was on the, "It just isn't the same", mindset and it pulled me back to tobacco. For me, I had to really dive in...by that I mean financially. I pondered a few weeks to get my mind focused on giving it a real shot, not just a whimsical one, a REAL shot. Then dropped over 200$ as motivation. No one likes to waste money and it's a good motivator, imo.

To cut the urge I agree with most that you need to up your nic level or change the method of your vape... For example, if you find you like cloud chasing (the group of people who love blowing those gigantic clouds of vapor), like I do, I do not recommend upping from 12 or you may find you get migraines from the nic you are getting.

Personally, I find the one of your complaints on the lack of buzz on vaping to smoking can be controlled if you wish. I did it at first but now, I just don't bother. Smoking, like other tobacco methods of delivery give you a quick burst of nicotine. A five minute cig gives most people the next 45 to 60 mins worth of nic they need, creating their level of nic to 'spike' and then drop back down. Nic is a stimulant and that spike is felt as a high to some (tho I didn't feel it cuz I smoked 2+ packs a day of Newports) because of the quick method of delivery. Due to the convenience of vaping, you don't worry about taking the 12-15 drags in a 5 min period so you don't spike. If you want a similar feel, jump to 32 and chain vape. If you are blowing giant clouds, 18 should suffice. Vaping can easily give you the same spike feeling that smoking a Newport 100 while dipping Cope black snuff will...I've done both

But I would like to ask the question, doesn't it feel nice to NOT be bound to the, "OMG!~ an hour has passed, it's time for a cigggggggg!!!" feeling? Scientifically, smoking raises your base anxiety level, so in reality, the nic fix is just making you feel like you would normally. Same goes with vaping, really, you just don't feel the fluctuations as much cuz the dose is more consistent like you pointed out by comparing it to the patch. As for regular anxiety, I have panic attacks, I've been on prozac, wellbutrin, effexor, seroquel, clonazepam, xanax, risperidone, elavil, cymbalta, lexapro, and a few others I can't think of. Outside of actual anxiolytic medications and narcotics, nothing works. I've never had any cig stop a panic attack I do not recommend using narcotics as a means of stopping panic or anxiety.

 

[Katya]

Just some background about me that might be relevant to my situation...

I am an adult with Asperger's syndrome, vision impared (I cannot drive anymore), and I have fibromyalgia (I'm also disabled and waiting on my SSI settlement). The fibro has been getting better the past year and some days I have no pain at all from it. Otherwise, my physical health is very good and I've been an infrequent smoker in the past 15 years, with periods where I smoke and periods where I quit. I've used smokeless tobacco a lot in that time.

A few months ago I was given ketamine during a colonoscopy (I have irritable bowel, at the time I was a non-smoker). I had a bad reaction to the ketamine and started freaking out for days afterwards. I feel like it messed up my head and made my panic attacks much worse. So I'm very sensitive to stimulants now, or anything that pushes up my anxiety. I feel like my brain is broken. The only relief I've found is in CBD, but its expensive. Whole tobacco also seems to eliminate the anxiety, but not pure nicotine. At least, the nicotine doesn't completely remove it. It still leaves me a bit edgey and feeling in a funk.

Wellbutrin is the wrong thing for me to be taking right now. I took it in the past and started getting psychotic depression at 150mg/d- I got by on dropping it to 100mg. And I found it hard to stop, too.

I'm no longer interested in quitting tobacco. I can honestly look back and see my mental health being better using tobacco, I see some positive qualities a much vilified herb, honestly, and not all forms of tobacco are all that unhealthy. But, I currently find myself stuck in cigarette mode, so I'd like to find a way to get the satisfaction of smoking but in a healthier form. I initially thought vaping would supply that, but now I'm realizing it is not so simple- the two experiences are very different. Most e-liquids are more like NRT, in my brief experience.

Listen to Plumes.

I'm not going to repeat what he already said--several times.

You may be one of those people for whom nicotine alone just doesn't do it. Don't ask me how I know. But there are better solutions than smoking.

1. The best--Swedish snus. It has all the goods that a tobacco smoke has but without the harm. Swedish snus is the safest and the most tested harm reduction product available. It's pure, clean and safe--and it works. I like and always recommend General mini mint white portions. Since snus and snuff did help you in the past, I suggest you go back to them. Many people supplement their vaping with snus. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Use snus for the "goods" and vaping low nic for the hand-to-mouth fixation. Visit our Smokeless Tobacco subforum to talk to people who use both and are very happy.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smokeless-tobacco/

2. The second best--dissolvable tobacco. I've used both Ariva and Stonewall and they are very effective and safe. Very similar to Swedish snus.

3. WTA--the new kid on the block. I'm using Aroma's WTA eliquids and I like them a lot. Aroma has a subforum here and you may want to pay them a visit and have a chat with Jerry and other WTA users. Aroma Ejuice

You may also enjoy reading DVap's blog:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/1866-current-thoughts.html

Increasing nicotine levels in your eliquid to a point where you're having palpitations is not only not going to help you--it may actually be harmful.

Good luck and happy vaping.

 

[Katya]

J
Wellbutrin is the wrong thing for me to be taking right now. I took it in the past and started getting psychotic depression at 150mg/d- I got by on dropping it to 100mg. And I found it hard to stop, too.

If you're anything like me, Wellbutrin is not for you.

I tried it once--it turned me into a raving lunatic.

But it has worked for other people.

 

[AndriaD]

I will very much keep everybody informed on this thread here, since so many new people seem to struggle switching to e-cigs.

I quit in the past using American and Swedish snuff and snus without too much effort. It didn't replace the ritual of smoking, but it had rituals of it its own. It's possible I could find some satisfaction mixing up snuff and vaping, since it seems like it takes hours for the cravings to really kick in, and as a hobby, vaping is definitely fun.

I really think more research needs to be done into tobacco alkaloids. No wonder NRT just doesn't work. For me its almost like I don't even need the nicotine that much, its the other goodies my body is craving.

Upping my nicotine does no good to stop cravings: yesterday I vaped an NJoy King (one big hit- NJoy's are really strong stuff, with a nice throat hit for sure but too strong for me) and some 18mg juice (two smaller ones) and nearly had a panic attack from heart palpitations, tension in my chest, and so on. It's not a question of nicotine level, there is something missing in e-juice, as I had just gotten done a few hours earlier smoking a few Marlboro Reds and some handrolled ciggies (they are strong indeed, even buying the mildest pipe tobacco). My partner is lucky, she can swap any tobacco product, nicotine lozenge, or e-liquid and it's all good for her, but for me I really feel the difference.

It's odd that you say you feel the same on e-cigs as on the patch, because I've tried quitting via the patch twice, and both times just about expired of cravings, anxiety, heart palpitations, jitters, and self-pity. With e-cigs, I feel none of that. However when I first started, some idjit told me to use 18mg, which made me sick to death; same story when I tried 12mg, though it took a bit longer to reach the point of stomach pains and nausea. With 6mg, I can vape my face off, and have no significant jitters, no palpitations, no anxiety, and no cravings either. It really sounds more like you're getting too much nicotine, and I agree that it doesn't sound like nicotine is the big issue for you (it's not for me, either; it's all the learned smoking behaviors I'm having the hardest time with); but I don't think the issue is those other 6999 chemicals, either; I think it's that you just haven't found the right taste that makes you go "eureka!"

I looked for 2-3 wks, and was despairing of EVER finding that perfect e-juice, till I found Virginia at myfreedomsmokes -- and they're out of stock on that right now, so it's pointless to go look for it. So I'm hunting down other plain Virginia flavors, hoping at least one will make an adequate substitute. If I hadn't found that Virginia, though, I'm sure I'd still be smoking -- for me, it's more about taste and sensation, than nicotine.

You should also be aware that human brains are good liars; they will seize on ANYTHING to rationalize any decision, no matter how foolhardy or downright stupid -- like continuing to smoke. Your brain knows it can get what it wants very easily and quickly from cigarettes, so it's telling you, hey, don't bother with that business, you can give me what I need much more easily if you just smoke. People who have to take narcotics for pain experience something similar when they try to stop taking them -- the brain will conveniently tell you that you still have pain, you can't quit taking that medicine. It will tell you what you want to hear, instead of the truth. Nauseated? Must be the e-cigs. Jittery? Must be the e-cigs. Anxious and frantic and heart pounding? Must be the e-cigs. On and on. Until/unless you decide that e-cigs might actually work for you, they won't. And I don't mean lip-service, "ok, I doubt this will work, but I'll try it, then I can go back to smoking when it doesn't work."

Andria

 

[Katya]

Whats missing from juice are the other addictive chemicals they add to ciggs!

Actually, what some of us are missing are those other chemicals (minor tobacco alkaloids) that have been removed during the nicotine extraction process.

 

[Katya]

You should also be aware that human brains are good liars; they will seize on ANYTHING to rationalize any decision, no matter how foolhardy or downright stupid -- like continuing to smoke. Your brain knows it can get what it wants very easily and quickly from cigarettes, so it's telling you, hey, don't bother with that business, you can give me what I need much more easily if you just smoke. People who have to take narcotics for pain experience something similar when they try to stop taking them -- the brain will conveniently tell you that you still have pain, you can't quit taking that medicine. It will tell you what you want to hear, instead of the truth. Nauseated? Must be the e-cigs. Jittery? Must be the e-cigs. Anxious and frantic and heart pounding? Must be the e-cigs. On and on. Until/unless you decide that e-cigs might actually work for you, they won't. And I don't mean lip-service, "ok, I doubt this will work, but I'll try it, then I can go back to smoking when it doesn't work."

Andria

How very true.

 

[FireDragon1138]

Snus is great stuff... but its very hard to get now thanks to the PACT act, and it always was pricey even when I was ordering it from Northerner before it became trendy. So I usually got by with some Copenhagen or Timberwolf dip to supplement my orders. Now it's downright cost-prohibitive for me.

I tried Camel Snus but honestly I don't care for portion snus as much anymore. I'm actually at a lower nicotine dependence level than I was years ago, and I think I'd get by on a stronger mini portion. Snus packs a hell of a nicotine punch, I remember when I used it to get off cigs before, it was just too strong at first. With something like Copenhagen or Skoal I can at least take as much or as little as I want (and I usually don't have to spit). But now days it really only satisfies me when I can't smoke, there is still the hand-to-mouth smoking ritual in my head.

I got hold of some older Ariva tablets and I've tried those, and they do seem to work for those moments I can't smoke, so I'll try to get some more in a flavor I like better. I usually cut Ariva in half because I find the effect on my stomach a bit strong, and even a half is satisfying enough.

The PACT act has really hurt things though. I wish politicians understood that taking away peoples choices is never a good thing. I'm getting interested in supporting groups like CASAA, which seems like a good idea (arguing for reason-based, evidence based tobacco policies).

 

[FireDragon1138]

An update...

I just got Aroma E-Juice's "G.I. Joe with WTA" in the mail. Delivery was very fast. I waited a few hours and had a few cigarettes in between, today hasn't been great because I took some melatonin to sleep and had some hangover from it. So, I decided to put ten drops into my eGo's tank and push it onto the atomizer, and I took a few puffs. All I can say is, wow, this feels more like real tobacco to me! I think I can see this stuff working. I just don't have "I need a cig" thoughts popping up into my head, and I feel more of a sense of completion and putting down my vaporizer. And the strength is only 12mg, too.

 

[DVap]

An update...

I just got Aroma E-Juice's "G.I. Joe with WTA" in the mail. Delivery was very fast. I waited a few hours and had a few cigarettes in between, today hasn't been great because I took some melatonin to sleep and had some hangover from it. So, I decided to put ten drops into my eGo's tank and push it onto the atomizer, and I took a few puffs. All I can say is, wow, this feels more like real tobacco to me! I think I can see this stuff working. I just don't have "I need a cig" thoughts popping up into my head, and I feel more of a sense of completion and putting down my vaporizer. And the strength is only 12mg, too.

The AromaEjuice 24 mg unflavored WTA can put some joy into even the worst day. How can an "unflavored" liquid be the best single liquid on the market anywhere? (and it is). You'll have to try it and find out.

 

[Plumes.91]

I used to use sleeping medications prescribed by doctors. But they gave a hangover like nothing else. they make you a complete and total zombie the next day. So I wound up taking melatonin. Melatonin gave me a hangover until I read a few articles online about it. Apparently, one only needs .5 to 1mg of melatonin to get sleepy and sleep well through the night. Anymore than 1mg and it's complete overkill, and it won't really do anything to improve your rate of falling to sleep. If you have 3mg pills, try breaking them into 4 quarters and take 1 and 1/2. No more hangovers! At least thats what I've experienced. Glad the WTA at 12mg is working out.

 

[jpsublime921]

You should try NET"S(naturally extracted tobacco). I kinda had the same problem when I started out. NET's seemed to do the trick, that and being fully committed to the e-cig. Find a good NET flavor you like and go from there

 

[FireDragon1138]

An interesting thing happened yesterday. I only vaped about 3-4 hits of WTA e-liquid, but I noticed the rest of the day, I was going out to smoke cigarettes less. I had a pinch of nasal snuff when I was winding down for bed and I really noticed the nicotine in this particular snuff, I ended up blowing it out of my nose because it actually was unpleasant... then I went out half an hour later, had a cigarette, only took a few puffs, put it out, and went to bed. I was jonesing for nicotine a lot less, for sure. Then I woke up this morning, went out, had a cigarette, and the same thing happened- a calm feeling and not puffing particularly hard on the cigarette. At the same time though, this cigarette had very little morning buzz that I'm used to, no rush. It was very underwhelming.

I wonder if WTA isn't perhaps too strong. I notice similar feelings to smoking a cigarette, but I notice that the cigarettes I have been smoking are not nearly as strong in the calming effect that Aroma's WTA produces. In addition, the effect seems to last for hours. I could see the WTA going a long ways, perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to vape it all the time?

I've read about NET's but I've also heard they don't contain alkaloids on their own and that they can use up atomizers faster.

I do cut up my melatonin, but sometimes it still gives me hangover, especially if I use it for early morning waking (3 am).

I can see WTA e-liquids easing my way into vaping. My mistake was using a Blu to start out- the flavors are mediocre (the tobacco doesn't taste like tobacco, it reminds me more of cappuccino coffee mixed with ash tray, only the menthol is tolerable), the strength you get in the cartridges is too high. Vapor production is OK but they aren't really a good deal. Currently I use my Blu occasionally and I refill the cartridges with better juice, but I wish I had started out on something else . Blu literally drove me back to smoking cigarettes, the experience was that bad. I know Lorillard has muscled Blu into convenience stores everywhere but the selection of cartridges they offer is poor, especially compared to Mistic (I tried their 12mg and it was much more tolerable).

 

[leafgrrl]

I was hoping to stop smoking cigarettes right away but I just started vaping yesterday (16-18% nicotine) and it has decreased the amount I smoke already. I'd say half of what I normally smoke. I didn't even vape much because I was having issues with my clearomizer which I got help with on this forum.

Hopefully, you find something that works for you.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I hope you find what you are looking for...

 

[Plumes.91]

Boy you sound like your realllly into knowing your body and the effects from your cigs and nicotine products. I haven't known anyone to actually still catch a buzz of any time from smoking or vaping. Not regularly at least. I'd say you should start to phase out the buzz and attempt to maintain for a while.

 

[ThaiKick]

Happy to read that. I read through the thread, wondering if you would have the same experience as I have. I've only been vaping a couple of months, but it just wasn't doing it for me. Once I had the first puff of WTA, I knew that it was exactly what I was missing. I went from 10 cigarettes a day down and chain vaping to 0 cigarettes and some vape breaks yesterday.
They say it's not for everyone, but for myself it changed everything

 

[MitchC]

I was 2 pack a day smoker since age 12. Smoke free now 3 years. I've tried a slew of tobacco juices and have narrowed it down to:

Alien Visions:

1. Havana Gold (my #1 go to juice)
2. Bobba's Bounty (complex, rich, slightly sweet)
3. Blend 4 (with a touch of PG Hype added)
4. Gorilla Juice (Tobacco and Banana !? Who'da thunk)

Good Life Vapors:

El Kamino (closest 'real' smoke flavor)
English Bulldog

Nicoticket:
H1N1

Try as many tobacco juices as you can. And start out with 18mg strength... especially at first to get your nic fix. After you totally get off the analogs, you might try reducing your nic level