NYC bans ecigs indoors. The mind boggles.

[navigator2011]

Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said "A little rebellion keeps the lungs of liberty alive.". Maybe I screwed up the quote, but I think he said something along those lines. The founding concepts of this nation should compel us achieve a higher standard. Making mistakes is part of the human condition, however.

 

[Orb Skewer]

It does not matter one iota who you 'vote in', it could be Jessicca Rabbit for all that it really matters,
A cabal of global corporations decide on how they want a society shaped.
Government are tasked with carrying out their wishes,
Politicians are a buffer between Government and the people, politicians 'shoe-horn' (lie and deceive) the sheep into the policy decisions,
The people are led to believe they have power-by the politicians 'who take it in turns' in the hot seat-while their 'colleagues' sit on the benches having a break.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Having spent plenty of time with WW II veterans such as my Dad and have visited the war camps, spoken to those on both sides who were fortunate to survive the brutally of Hitler and Nazi Germany no one can use his ideology and say Hitler has anything to do with smoking bans.

 

[LDS714]

"You shall all be asslaminated."
-Lucretius, the dyslexic Borg

 

[LDS714]

Whilst I wouldn't liken any current regime to that of Nazi Germany, I can't help but be concerned that many of Hitler's methods for manipulating his citizens are alive and well in world leaders today.

They absolutely are. But any time it's a relevant statement someone always shouts "Godwin!" End of argument...

 

[navigator2011]

Having spent plenty of time with WW II veterans such as my Dad and have visited the war camps, spoken to those on both sides who were fortunate to survive the brutally of Hitler and Nazi Germany no one can use his ideology and say Hitler has anything to do with smoking bans.

Surely you're not suggesting that nobody uses those ideologies?

 

[Orb Skewer]

They are maybe not hitlers ideologies, but what we are up against are ideologies none the less,

No supporter of this 'popular' party had any misgivings about its directions-until it had gone too far

 

[navigator2011]

It is interesting that most of those supporters were perfectly fine with other people's freedoms being taken away, no one cared until it was there own freedom at stake. Perhaps, the lesson is that we should be concerned with the erosion of liberty, even when we aren't interested in the particular issue at stake. Non-vapers should not support bans on vaping, for example.

 

[AegisPrime]

Perhaps, the lesson is that we should be concerned with the erosion of liberty, even when we aren't interested in the particular issue at stake. Non-vapers should not support bans on vaping, for example.

Exactly this! vaping is an issue that we're passionate about and it's easy for us to be unfairly legislated against because vaping isn't a mainstream phenomena - our numbers aren't insignificant but we're not organised enough nor vocal enough to have a 'voice' (although CASAA, Bill, Dr. F and Clive are advocating for us as strongly as they're able to).

But it's just one tiny example of liberties being eroded - I'm equally concerned with the privacy issues uncovered by Snowden with regards to the NSA and GCHQ - that to me has even more dire consequences and is symptomatic of leaders and governments that hold no respect for the rights of individuals.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[Orb Skewer]

It is interesting that most of those supporters were perfectly fine with other people's freedoms being taken away, no one cared until it was there own freedom at stake. Perhaps, the lesson is that we should be concerned with the erosion of liberty, even when we aren't interested in the particular issue at stake. Non-vapers should not support bans on vaping, for example.

It's 'fact' that those supporters were shielded from the truth that others freedoms were being taken away-ask any German living today.

 

[wv2win]

Was it "I wouldn't carry a gun, so no one should"

Not even close. Carrying a gun does not hurt anyone.

 

[wv2win]

I'd agree on the gun one, but I was trying to frame it in such a way that both sides of the political spectrum could see my point. Unless it's the abortion one, in which case, I'd ask how two entities occupying the same space can be legally granted the same rights. They can't. One must trump the other, and we likely disagree on which one that should be.

It was not the "carrying" a gun example. In your previous post you stated: "If it isn't harming someone else, then so be it." As I stated, my intention was not to side track the thread or delve into a totally different discussion. I only take exception to one of the examples you used in that it would not fit the criteria you provided in your post.

 

[wv2win]

It's the law and a woman's right.

That is not relevant to our posts. Our point was about listing activities that do not harm others as a comparison to vaping. No intent to start a different discussion, just that one particular example does not fit the point of the overall discussion of "no harm".

 

[navigator2011]

It's 'fact' that those supporters were shielded from the truth that others freedoms were being taken away-ask any German living today.

Well, they were not perfectly shielded from the whole truth. I'm pretty sure it must have been fairly obvious at the time that some discrimination was definitely going on with ghettos and that like. Just go to YouTube and listen to Hitler's speeches, he makes it all too obvious, and everyone cheers and applauds. Over the years, I have met quite a few "old" Germans who were alive at the time, and many of them swore, hand over heart, that none of what we have been told was the truth--rather it was all just a master smear campaign against one of the world's greatest leaders of all time. So, my opinion is that talking to any German living today is very different than talking to any German living in the 1920-1930s. Again, it's just my opinion, though. I'm still allowed to have an opinion, even if it stinks.

 

[navigator2011]

That is not relevant to our posts. Our point was about listing activities that do not harm others as a comparison to vaping. No intent to start a different discussion, just that one particular example does not fit the point of the overall discussion of "no harm".

The only relevance would be that the instant we change the subject from vaping to someone else's pet issue, the passion immediately shifts in the other direction.

 

[Orb Skewer]

Well, they were not perfectly shielded from the whole truth. I'm pretty sure it must have been fairly obvious at the time that some discrimination was definitely going on with ghettos and that like. Just go to YouTube and listen to Hitler's speeches, he makes it all too obvious, and everyone cheers and applauds. Over the years, I have met quite a few "old" Germans who were alive at the time, and many of them swore, hand over heart, that none of what we have been told was the truth--rather it was all just a master smear campaign against one of the world's greatest leaders of all time. So, my opinion is that talking to any German living today is very different than talking to any German living in the 1920-1930s. Again, it's just my opinion, though. I'm still allowed to have an opinion, even if it stinks.

Your opinion does not stink-but it is 'tunneled' -as was the purpose post WWII press propoganda of a nation shamed by a genocidal dictatorship-ousted by the allied forces-and their own citizens-lest we forget.

 

[rothenbj]

Moved to Media and General News

When a thread like this gets moved, is there a link sending the reader to the thread? I only ask because it always feels like there are only a limited number of vapers that find this sub-forum and the Legal News one. We need as many activists as possible and it would be good to have "road signs" that got people here for everyone's benefit.

 

[Traver]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

That would be just about everybody.

 

[Uma]

That would be just about everybody.

Not I, said the fly.
Nicotine is a germ killer http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/49/7/675.full.pdf
PG is a germ killer. Propylene Glycol (TRUTH) - Electronic Cigarettes
Anti-nicotine Politicians are nothing but parasitic germs. I'm winning this war whether they know it or not. .

 

[jpargana]

IMO ecigs should be viewed as medicine which prevents cigarette smoking, considering cigarette smoking kills more than almost any disease. It would be absurd to ban any other medication.

Ironic because NY has some of the highest cigarette taxes and cigarette restrictions, one may be fooled into thinking they were actually interested in reducing the harms of cigarettes.

No, they're not... they're only interested in keeping collecting those taxes. To keep the money lining their pockets, they must get rid of tobacco's greatest competitor... the e-cigarette. Bumping the e-cig with tobacco and spreading lies (We have heard health 'experts' claiming that "the e-cig can actually be more dangerous than tobacco") is a way to deter people from making the switch.

On one hand, Big Govt creates laws to vilify smokers. If you look carefully, those laws never actually harm tobacco sales (Take the menthol exception example, in the flavourings ban). That happens because Big Govt, on the other hand, needs our hard-earned money. Then, some of that money is used in new campaigns to vilify smokers... rinse and repeat.