Official DNA 40 introduction

[TheKiwi]

Why with details please? You already reached nirvana with our XPV 40 so I would love to learn from YOU the details?

Haha I don't wanna derail this thread, but I posted a whole bunch of pictures of issues on the flask thread. It's just. Very very disappointing. I'm gonna keep it until I can find another dual 18650 dna40 mod


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[DejayRezme]

Haha I don't wanna derail this thread, but I posted a whole bunch of pictures of issues on the flask thread. It's just. Very very disappointing. I'm gonna keep it until I can find another dual 18650 dna40 mod

Does your screen work? -> be happy



PS: Just kidding, sorry that you have these issues.

About the temp control vs temp protection question, I think it's largely academical and we should treat it as such. I personally see it as a power limiting device, or a "watt limiter". There take that as a feature marketing department haha. The only relevant question for me is if vapor production does get weaker when your watts are drastically above the temp power limit, and if so, why and how.

 

[ukeman]

Wow, that was a short honeymoon. I think I agree with you though. For that much money things like the usb charge port floating, buttons not protruding the same amount and very tight battery holes, all of which my device has too, should not be issues.

True about the price and dollar for dollar, but seems to me price for ALL dna40 devices are capitalizing on the new tech.

That said I've had my flask for a couple weeks without issue but like I've said, I tend to be one of those consumers that just "point and shoot" (a quote I got when the Canon Sure-shot came out digital camera came out with auto focus).
I think that describes me more than the device.

I don't ever use the USB because i'm used to charging my batts all the time and i've heard its not so great for the batts anyway although in a pinch, why not?

The top "up" button is more recessed than the bottom "down" button... maybe on purpose to keep from hitting them both at same time by mistake.

I use Sony VTC4 or 5 batts and they fit like they were made for the flask. Wider batts won't fit. So whats wrong with "no battery rattle"?

I'll go check out the Flask thread.

 

[ukeman]

I didn't really read this whole post yet ... promise i will... "point and shoot" guy here.

I've been holding my setting at a point where it won't hit TP signal: .22 ohms, 3mm ID, set at 470 degrees, 10 watts. single coil.
This is a nice mellow, smooth vape, but it won't be a huge vape by any means.

I adjusted the watts up to 20 and it will hover around midway between 10 and 20 for a few seconds (average draw time) then hit TP.
The vape is more full and warmer. I think I'll stay here.

I hate to be argumentative, but unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here it seems that you just don't quite get what's really going on in our vaporizers. You seem to think that wattage and temperature are somehow very distinct. They are, but not in the way you seem to think. Reading back over your posts I now think I've figured out where my confusion in some of your remarks has been. They stem from the fact that you feel that temperature and wattage are completely independent. That for a fixed build you can somehow change the wattage without changing the temperature. That's just not true.

Watts are directly convertible to BTU or heat output. Now that in itself isn't related to temperature. But it's still a fixed amount of heat being generated. How you disperse and remove that heat can change, but not how much heat is generated, that will ALWAYS be directly tied to wattage. I can build larger surface area coils to spread the heat out over a larger area (i.e. lower the heat flux) or vice versa... I can increase my airflow which will draw away more vapor which is carrying the heat away with it, etc... Those are all factors related to the build. Yet they have nothing to do with the wattage you are putting into that build. The only thing that changes in that regard is how much heat is being generated.

In a non temperature protected setup, if I put X amount of BTUs into a system, (and therefore Y amount of wattage) I must remove X amount of BTUs of heat or else the temperature will rise.This is precisely why a kayfun for example might max out at say 20 watts... Due to it's design, size of juice channels, size of airholes, etc you can only remove so much heat energy from the system. On the other hand I can run a dripper at say 70watts and get the same cool vape. By increasing the airflow and heat removal to keep the temp the same as it is in the kayfun. I just happen to be able to remove a lot more heat, therefore can introduce more heat into the system to stay at the same temperature.

Your statement about keeping it at 410 degrees but you have minimal to no control over how much vapor comes out is a rather odd statement. For a given fixed build you're right, setting it at 410 degrees isn't going to give you control over how much vapor comes out... It's going to be a very consistent and fixed amount of vapor. The ONLY control I have is being able to REDUCE the amount of vapor produced which in turn is going to reduce the temperature of the coil. By changing the temperature to a higher setting I can produce more vapor (assuming I was below the max point of my juice), albeit it's going to be a warmer vape and hit a ceiling where I either start to lose or change flavor or burn my wicking material. But if that temperature is above the maximum boiling point of the juice and/or it's components then you're already maximizing the vapor production of that particular build. That's the gist of what I'm trying to get at here... And I'm actually editing this now to try to make it even more clear. For a given build with a given juice you're going to have a fixed amount of maximum vapor. It's dependant upon the airflow, wicking, juice, surface area, etc. If you want to produce LESS vapor than the maximum possible given the build and juice, then YES, you can back the wattage down... However, you can't produce MORE vapor, and certainly not by backing down the wattage!!!

Let me say this to try to be as clear as possible. There is NO WAY possible via thermodynamics nor simple physics that you can produce more vapor by introducing LESS energy (i.e. decreased wattage) for a given fixed build.

You can absolutely change it by changing the build. But now we're comparing apples to oranges... A different build with different surface area and airflow and juice flow are going to produce a different amount of vapor.

You can't simply decouple heat energy and wattage... The laws of physics don't allow you to do that.

I'll give you a perfect example. When I used to read the New Members section a lot. I used to see a lot of posts from new users who were confused about the VV/VW mods. They would want to know what voltage they should run at for a given wattage. Or worse yet, on a few occasions I saw people reply who did the same thing, they tried to decouple the voltage from the wattage. Well, voltage does this and wattage does this... So set your wattage to this and then set your voltage for that... The universe just doesn't work that way... Voltage and Wattage are coupled. You can't change one without changing the other. If you choose to change wattage the device is simply changing the voltage to deliver that wattage based on the resistance of the coil. If you choose to change voltage you are in turn changing the wattage...

The same applies with the DNA40. When you change the wattage you ARE changing the temperature. There's no getting around it. For a fixed build the lower you set the wattage the lower the temperature of the coil will be. When you instead set temperature you are letting the device sense the temperature of the coil and adjust the wattage for you. (Unless you set wattage to a level that won't maintain the temperature you set in which case it simply delivers the maximum wattage you set)

If you turn temperature protection off and set the wattage for a given build where the coil will reach exactly 400 degrees, and let's say that wattage is 20 watts... If you then turn TP on and set it for 400 degrees guess what? It's going to self-regulate itself to 20 watts.... The only difference is, you can set the device to 25 watts, 30 watts, 40 watts or whatever... It doesn't matter because it's only going to deliver the 20 watts needed to get that build to 400 degrees....

So by setting the wattage to max and setting the temp limit you're going to get the MAXIMUM amount of vapor that build can deliver... Rather it has to run at 12 watts or 38 watts... During the draw given enough airflow and heat removal as well as wicking the coil temp will be below that set temp anyway... Most ideal is the boiling point of the juice. But there are going to be times when you aren't drawing enough air, juice isn't wicking quite right, or whatever when that temp will be exceeded.

Again, I know I'm beating a dead dog here but I'll repeat it one more time... If I create a build that is capable of sustaining 20w during a good draw... then if I set the DNA40 for 20 watts it will look something like this...

40w -> 20w -> 20w -> 20w -> 20w -> 5w

If I set that same device to 40w it's going to look something like this...

40w -> 20w -> 23w -> 25w -> 20w -> 5w

In the beginning it hits the coil to heat it up fast... Then as the draw takes place in the first example it fires a max of 20w... In the second example it can actually raise or increase the wattage if the draw gets harder, air gets cooler, juice wicks a little quicker, etc... The top one can never exceed 20w cause that's what it's set for (once the preheat is over). But the second one since the wattage is set for 40w can apply a little extra when needed... Keeping the coil build running at MAXIMUM vapor production throughout the draw....

When getting to the end of the draw and little airflow is moving then both must back way down off wattage to prevent exceeded the temp limit...

I can't magically get MORE vapor out of the top build or setting.... In fact, if I really want to maximize it, it's the bottom one that will give me a slight edge.

 

[darkeid]

Hello , sry if i`m posting this in a wrong place.

Heres a tube type mod installation of the new evolv board

The mod is the elevator v2 and it is a custom build from user sv1awi

 

[DejayRezme]

That's really pretty! What atty is that?

 

[Heespharm]

It looks like a sat22

 

[dougward1960]

i asked a general tech question to the evolve help section today and 15-20 minutes later phone rang looked at caller id it said evolve llc i answered and it was brandon turns out we have the same last name but anyways i was stunned to say the least i figured they would respond to my email but never thought he would call me. turns out getting a good connection with this ni200 wire is very important and difficult at the same time. but im going to keep trying till i get it right. i think the atty makers need to redesign the connection holes so we can tighten without cutting off the wire.

 

[Heespharm]

One thing u can do is get a rod and stick in the post hole screw and cut it so it's flush with the bottom of the post hole... That way the screw will bottom out on the wire sandwiched between the rod and the screw... I for one don't have much of a problem

 

[dougward1960]

One thing u can do is get a rod and stick in the post hole screw and cut it so it's flush with the bottom of the post hole... That way the screw will bottom out on the wire sandwiched between the rod and the screw... I for one don't have much of a problem

im sure it varies between different attys some work better than others i dont use the holes i use the screw heads but that's Micky moused and not the way it supposed to work

 

[rusirius]

im sure it varies between different attys some work better than others i dont use the holes i use the screw heads but that's Micky moused and not the way it supposed to work

One suggestion... assuming you are work hardening your nickel before making your coil, if it's still giving you problems, check your screws. Sand the buttons to make sure they are flush and don't have sharp edges. I'd there's a sharp edge there remember you're basically turning it into a pair of scissors.

 

[dougward1960]

i do harden it but not sure about the screws they are tiny and if i drop one id never find it

 

[TheKiwi]

So... Time to get some knowledge. Soecifically on when the chip is supposed to detect a new atty.

I put on a 0.2 ohm build here:

Vapes fine.

Put on a 0.1 ohm build here:

It doesn't ask me if it was a new atty, although it reads the resistance right. Was it supposed to?

ETA: now when I put on a 0.2 atty, it still reads as 0.1 ohm, and gives me an instant temperature protection

ETA: aaaand now it reads 999F when I put in a kanthal atty. Hahaha

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[rusirius]

So... Time to get some knowledge. Soecifically on when the chip is supposed to detect a new atty.

I put on a 0.2 ohm build here:

Vapes fine.

Put on a 0.1 ohm build here:

It doesn't ask me if it was a new atty, although it reads the resistance right. Was it supposed to?

ETA: now when I put on a 0.2 atty, it still reads as 0.1 ohm, and gives me an instant temperature protection

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If the resistance is close it won't always detect it when the resistance is higher. If it's lower sometimes out automatically assumes it's new and doesn't ask. I've found that normally if I fire it with an atty off and get the check atty message then put the other one on out will usually prompt

 

[TheKiwi]

If the resistance is close it won't always detect it when the resistance is higher. If it's lower sometimes out automatically assumes it's new and doesn't ask. I've found that normally if I fire it with an atty off and get the check atty message then put the other one on out will usually prompt

Hmm. Ok. But now I have a 1.3 ohm kanthal build and it doesn't ask either and it just shows 999F haha


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[Heespharm]

Do u click the fire button between putting on a new atomizer?


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[TheKiwi]

Do u click the fire button between putting on a new atomizer?


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Yup! Says check atomizer. Then plonk the new one in. I have 6 different ATTIES in rotation, and made sure that they are fully cooled.

It does ask if it's a new atty maybe once ever 10 tries?


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[dougward1960]

mine prompts every time i put new one on as long as i hit the fire button in between for ck atty

 

[DejayRezme]

Worst case you can take battery in / out to force atty re-initialization (which can also be annoying because then you have to let the atty cool too).

 

[TheKiwi]

Welp. Chip seems to have stabilized, and become more consistent about asking if I have a new atty on. Apologies for the panicked spam haha


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