I agree. I was just trying to put out a simple explanation, and not going into all of the idiosyncrasies for the masses that find physics less enjoyable than a lobotomy.
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I agree. I was just trying to put out a simple explanation, and not going into all of the idiosyncrasies for the masses that find physics less enjoyable than a lobotomy.
I agree.
When you get to temperatures like 400F, ±10°C/°F is not much at all, and for it to be more accurate, the price probably would be much higher also.
Regarding battery life, I have found from reports of different users of similar equipment but with different ohm coils, that battery life is more related to number of ml's of juice vaporized than anything else. That makes sense to me when I consider it takes x amount of power to vaporize x amount of juice, and the speed at which it is done doesn't really matter. Where the DNA40 could improve battery life, is where a user likes a lower ohm coil for fast heatup time, but is then possibly using more watts than required to vaporize the juice, but that's just speculation on my part.
Agreed. In fact, in an ideal atty, all the energy would go to vaporizing liquid. The question is, how much energy is wasted in other ways in the atty?
When using a regulated mod, lower resistance does not equate to faster heat-up time. Heat-up time is a function of the number of watts applied vs the mass of the coil and the specific heat of the material the coil is made from. The notion that ohms affect heat-up time is a hold-over from unregulated mods, where the only way to get more watts was to use a lower-resistance coil.
You are right olderthandirt!
Geez, someone is always trying to kill something....Nova6667, I am buying a Provari v 2.5 for one of my friends and a P3 when it arrives...I don't think anything is killing the Provari. The Provari does not allow you to go over wattage and melt Kanthal...lol.
I will also buy a DNA40 device...
I guess there is a troll in every crowd...Can we keep to DNA40 discussion please? I really don't want to see this turning into some ridiculous WWF of mod wars. I am interested in the Evolv DNA40 and would love to discuss that in this thread, not the Provari.
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Dr. Farsalinos is getting ready to release a study apparently related to the chemical reactions created in the heating of e-liquids? I could have that wrong. We will need to see his study. He has been our best independent source of true medical information and keeps science in the picture rather than voodoo and false information.
I am very excited that we are finding technical ways to potentially increase the safety of vaping.
I see the Evolv DNA 40 release as a brilliant technical innovation in the vaping world. The more that innovators are ahead of our Federal regulatory agencies; the more likely they will not find some scientific reason to stop us from vaping, IMO.
This is a staggeringly intelligent circuit board...and from what I gather from the Phil interview, it will not be priced out of range of previous DNA products.
LOL, I want one...like yesterday!
Disclaimer: This does not take into account lobbying and political agendas from anti vape interest groups and I am not trying to turn it into THAT discussion either...
I am very excited that we are finding technical ways to potentially increase the safety of vaping.
I see the Evolv DNA 40 release as a brilliant technical innovation in the vaping world. The more that innovators are ahead of our Federal regulatory agencies; the more likely they will not find some scientific reason to stop us from vaping, IMO.
This is a staggeringly intelligent circuit board...and from what I gather from the Phil interview, it will not be priced out of range of previous DNA products.
LOL, I want one...like yesterday!
Disclaimer: This does not take into account lobbying and political agendas from anti vape interest groups and I am not trying to turn it into THAT discussion either...
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Rossum, you touch on a subject that has had me thinking for 4 or 5 weeks now. I know a little about electricity. But thermodynamics/heat transfer is certainly not a specialty of mine...
It would appear that our coil build and wicking style effect the heat transfer (coil to e-liquid) greatly. While a microcoil experiencing "the effect" is probably the most thermo-electrically efficient, is it the most efficient at heat transfer? And heat transfer is our ultimate goal, no?
I'm thinking about starting a thread discussing thermodynamics in vaping, as I'm wondering now if contact coils are the best choice in all circumstances. Is it worth discussing?
Aldenf...you may be interested in reading this blog by TheKiwi. He is in a business that has something to do with thermodynamics. In this blog, he gives some basics about heat transfer and how we build coils...Coils: Do thicker wires ACTUALLY give you a warmer vape?
I had to read this one slowly...lol because I am a thermodynamics noob. If you can track with it, there is a lot of good info in it.
Thanks, Bassnorma! I think I'll take my time with this one. It looks interesting...
Nor mine.
Yep, transfer to a liquid, thus vaporizing it. But even then, there's seems to be some disagreement where the actual vaporization occurs; is it in the wick? Is it on the surface of the coil? I think it's primarily the latter, but not everyone concurs.
I may have an over-simplistic view....but the wick can't vaporize anything without heat. I see the wick as feeding juice to the heat source, the coil. Without a feeding source the coil will have nothing to vaporize. So wouldn't it both in a way? Neither can function without the other but I think it is the coil that does the vaporizing when fed with something to vaporize....
OK maybe that sounds dumb...but that is the extent of my understanding of this.
Interesting. I tend to agree with you. If vaporization occurs on the wick why does e-liquid caramelize on my twisted wire builds and not on my wick; the coil all gunked up and the rayon almost clean as new?
I think I'll start a thread tonight. Some friendly, pseudo-scientific discussion could prove useful. I just hope it doesn't cause a storm...
Thanks for responding Mamu, and yes, I did indeed watch the same video -- I just took something different from it than you did. I don't have the time at the instant to give justice to your response, so I will have to get back to it. I will include one point, here, however, because it's the particular answer from Brandon that really set the warning flags flying:
This is not a convincing or scientifically acceptable argument. Just because something is widely used does not mean it's safe. Consider, as but one pertinent example, cigarettes. And how long in that case did it take us to figure out a widely used product was indeed not safe? Actually, I find the fact that Brandon would even advance such an argument concerning in its own right, which is why it set the warning flags flying over his other answers.
Fortunately most of his answers were better than that, and I'll get to the rest of them when I have a little more time. In the meantime, I really want to say thanks for sharing your personal experience, which I actually find more convincing than all of Brandon's arguments combined. And if, as I'm hoping, you can say the same thing about your personal experience in a year and two and five as you're saying now, I'll consider it a very significant data point(s) indeed.
-Kevin
This is not a convincing or scientifically acceptable argument. Just because something is widely used does not mean it's safe. Consider, as but one pertinent example, cigarettes. And how long in that case did it take us to figure out a widely used product was indeed not safe? Actually, I find the fact that Brandon would even advance such an argument concerning in its own right, which is why it set the warning flags flying over his other answers.
Fortunately most of his answers were better than that, and I'll get to the rest of them when I have a little more time. In the meantime, I really want to say thanks for sharing your personal experience, which I actually find more convincing than all of Brandon's arguments combined. And if, as I'm hoping, you can say the same thing about your personal experience in a year and two and five as you're saying now, I'll consider it a very significant data point(s) indeed.
-Kevin
Agreed and agreed. I guess the only way to find out if there's interest is to start the thread -- I wonder the best place to start it? Actually if I'm starting it I need to refresh myself on what's already on here. I know I looked at it, but it's been some time.
You missed the point of my comment. I am simply saying Evolv, like any other person or company comprised of people, is fallible, and I was using as evidence of that its oversight to include reverse battery protection (in a product being highly touted for its safety), compounded by an on-going poor decision to not add it when the problems being evidenced by its omission became clear. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
As for the answer that several common coil wires contain nickel, see my comment to Mamu about that at Post #95: just because something is in widespread use does not mean it's safe. I gave as an example cigarettes, which were in widespread use for a long time before their dangers became known.
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Most DNA installed devices on the market have 1 18650 batt... I know of one that uses 2, and while screamingly hard to snag on sale date, I wonder why there aren't more dual batt dna choices for those that don't mod their own installations.
Is it because for the most part batt drain from 1x18650 batt is not much of an issue with dna users (because they don't use sub ohms over 30w) ?
- or is it a safety issue (i.e. if you put the batts in wrong)?
Is it because for the most part batt drain from 1x18650 batt is not much of an issue with dna users (because they don't use sub ohms over 30w) ?
- or is it a safety issue (i.e. if you put the batts in wrong)?
Hi Kevin,
Studies have been done on the inhalation of Nickel Dust and those at risk have been deemed to be metal factory workers who have inhaled large quantities of the metal dust.
Now we are using it differently, we will never inhale nickel dust. So, one could argue, "What about nickel fumes created by heating the coil?" Metal does not give off a fume until it reaches it's melting point...being that the melting point of nickel is 1,728 degrees Kelvin. I doubt we will ever vape at a heat high enough for the coil to emit fumes.
I think we need to look at this from a larger view....most of us are here because we gave up tar and the thousands of chemicals in cigarettes.
Dr. Farsalinos will no doubt get around to studying the effects of nickel coils on vaping. For now we know that e-liquid degrades at extremely high temperatures and it is unknown what the risks are in the chemical reactions of juice breakdown.
In my view, the larger risk is the unknown chemical breakdown as compared to what I see through logic would be a minimal risk of Nickel being a carcinogen in our application.
Compared to a cigarette, vaping; no matter how you do it is safer and that has been proven.
LOL, My ex-hub's doctor told him two days ago that he should start vaping.
I think we blow things out of proportion sometimes. Nothing on Earth is 100% safe.
I think it's more of an ergonomic issue. A very small number of vapers want to carry a dual 18650/26650 mod around with them. It's just too unwieldy. Until somebody starts making batteries in a form-factor more appropriate for our use, better battery life means bigger mod.
The entire idea behind vaping with a regulated device is not having to run a sub-ohm build. 50W on a 1.5Ω build is under 6A and requires less expensive, longer lasting batts. Vaping 50W on a mech requires a <.3Ω build and pulls over 13A. The only advantage you get from sub-ohming on a regulated mod is the ability to jump the atty back and forth between a mech and get good vapes from both devices.
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