Official DNA 40 introduction

[classwife]

ahem...

I edited a few posts...

Discussions of selling are strictly prohibited - Please see the forum rules - thank you !

 

[aldenf]

I guess my question regarding the new dna 40 is final product cost... Brandon clearly said the dna 40 boards would be selling for $60, $10 more than the dna 30. If mod manufacturers are simply going to drop the DNA 40 into existing designs and continue selling DNA 30 devices, how will they differentiate the two in the market? Their cost difference is probably <$10. Example: VaporShark rDNA 30 - $189.99; rDNA 40 - $209.99? Will many actually purchase the DNA 30 to save $20? I'm sure, initially, supply and demand will allow them to drastically mark up the DNA 40. But within a few months things will have to level out. What happens when the "DNA 25" is released? I can't believe the board will be any less than the DNA 30. Market differentiation is going to be a challenge unless consumers are willing to severely over pay for the new technology. Any thoughts from the more experienced vapers?

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

As long as it's nickel wire and not SILVER wire.....

You can count me in...Mwa Ha Ha Ha Ha....

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

It is sold as non-resistance wire.

So if this is non-resistance wire....what happens when I take my nickel-coiled topper and mistakenly put it on my mech mod?

Dead short?

Anyone know?

 

[gin828]

I think if they sell the DNA40 at to high of a mark up compared to a DNA30 its gonna get ugly... I mean the boards are the same size so there is no design change. Do you think people are really gonna pay a big premium just to get the DNA40 when its only $10 difference in the chip? It will be interesting to see what the makers of DNA30 mods are going to charge. I think some will just discontinue the DNA30 all together. You can bet there will be a good mark up on upgrading older units.

 

[Rossum]

So if this is non-resistance wire....what happens when I take my nickel-coiled topper and mistakenly put it on my mech mod?
Dead short?
Anyone know?

No, it's not a "dead short". Just a stupidly low resistance coil, which increases in resistance (and thus drops current demand on a mech) as it heats up. It will probably reach "safe" resistance levels long before your battery vents. But personally, I'd try to avoid doing that.

 

[monkkx]

So if this is non-resistance wire....what happens when I take my nickel-coiled topper and mistakenly put it on my mech mod?

Dead short?

Anyone know?

according to post #21 (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icial-dna-40-introduction-3.html#post14339723) it's perfectly safe. However this statement has been thrown without any evidence, and I would not advise putting a 0.1 ohm coil on a mech mod, even if the resistance change with the temperature. Should I own a DNA40, I'll dedicate tanks to nickel wires, and make sure I can identify them clearly from the others ...

 

[HgA1C]

according to post #21 (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icial-dna-40-introduction-3.html#post14339723) it's perfectly safe. However this statement has been thrown without any evidence, and I would not advise putting a 0.1 ohm coil on a mech mod, even if the resistance change with the temperature. Should I own a DNA40, I'll dedicate tanks to nickel wires, and make sure I can identify them clearly from the others ...

Yup, that was my thoughts as well. I am just wondering how the non-rebuildables are going to work. Newbs throwing those sub-ohm nickel atomizers on the mechanicals and venting/exploding their batteries?

 

[Tbev]

Please post pics of nickel builds.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=613433
DNA 40, NR, Nickel Builds

 

[dr g]

So if this is non-resistance wire....what happens when I take my nickel-coiled topper and mistakenly put it on my mech mod?

Dead short?

Anyone know?

I do. This was literally one of the first concerns I had as a tester and it was addressed in several ways. It depends a lot on your specific build but it heats up quickly which raises resistance and lowers draw. If you were vaping you would likely notice the difference immediately.

In practice we found that 1) sometimes the wire just cuts, 2) it's not that easy to confuse the two, mainly because you'll want to use temperature regulation all the time, and 3) according to my tests, in normal firings a ~.1 nickel coil does not draw enough to heat up an AW 18350 battery, let alone a high drain 18650. Now I admit that I did not really delve extensively into this issue as I do not use mechs (I do own a mech though and tested with it). But I would venture to say that most decent subohm batteries, sony, samsung, lg, mnke, etc., can handle firing nickel accidentally without issue.

 

[ukeman]

Why? You'd have to build ungodly large coils in order to get above the 0.1 ohm specified minimum with Ni200 wire that thick.

ok I notice we are looking at .16 to 1 ohms coils for the dna 40 temp control.

Is Kanthal and Ni200 totally different animals? How do I miss these things?

So even with 30 or 32g nickel on i.e. a 3/32" coil, you have to use more wraps than you would with kanthal to get the same resistance?

 

[Tbev]

Yeah ni200 has way less res. Practically nr. That's why I was looking for pics.

 

[Ian444]

Deleted, could have done better... not to worry

 

[gray]

I seems that I read documentation that the coils shouldn't be shorted. Space in between the windings?
A beta tester said to just build the coil like anything else(cinched together in my case).

Which is it?

 

[dr g]

I seems that I read documentation that the coils shouldn't be shorted. Space in between the windings?
A beta tester said to just build the coil like anything else(cinched together in my case).

Which is it?

In run packed coils almost exclusively and had no problems running those. Those are not shorting to themselves.

 

[Ian444]

ok I notice we are looking at .16 to 1 ohms coils for the dna 40 temp control.

Is Kanthal and Ni200 totally different animals? How do I miss these things?

So even with 30 or 32g nickel on i.e. a 3/32" coil, you have to use more wraps than you would with kanthal to get the same resistance?

Yes, different animals. The nickel wire has about 0.071 times the resistance of kanthal for the same gauge and length, going by the Temco data. I would think 30g (or 32g) might be a good place to start to get over 0.1 ohms (datasheet says 0.1 to 1 ohm, with 0.4 ohm typical). I'm thinking to build a coil that satisfies >0.1 ohm and go from there. Note that with a 0.1 ohm coil, and max 16A delivered by the board, the wattage delivered will be max 25W. You would need to go higher, close to 0.2 ohms if you want the full 40W. If you are going to run the board basically on the temp limit, then I am guessing the amount of vapor produced might be dependent on the surface area of the coil more than anything else, just a guess though.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I do. This was literally one of the first concerns I had as a tester and it was addressed in several ways. It depends a lot on your specific build but it heats up quickly which raises resistance and lowers draw. If you were vaping you would likely notice the difference immediately.

In practice we found that 1) sometimes the wire just cuts, 2) it's not that easy to confuse the two, mainly because you'll want to use temperature regulation all the time, and 3) according to my tests, in normal firings a ~.1 nickel coil does not draw enough to heat up an AW 18350 battery, let alone a high drain 18650. Now I admit that I did not really delve extensively into this issue as I do not use mechs (I do own a mech though and tested with it). But I would venture to say that most decent subohm batteries, sony, samsung, lg, mnke, etc., can handle firing nickel accidentally without issue.

Bottom line it would probably be best to have RBAs dedicated to this unit--identifiable in some fashion---if going the nickel//T control route?
At the least it's going to perform much differently or unexpectedly on a different setup
at worst there a possible safety issue or the wire will just fail? (if I read DrG correctly)

Thanks, I was going to pick up a VS rDNA but am now going to wait a bit until the 40. I still think part of this new feature is to preempt and trump another FDA "issue" that will come up (i.e overheating of juices) while giving us a better experience as well.

 

[Rossum]

Note that with a 0.1 ohm coil, and max 16A delivered by the board, the wattage delivered will be max 25W. You would need to go higher, close to 0.2 ohms if you want the full 40W.

Max 25W when the that 0.1Ω coil is cold. But its resistance increases as it heats up.

 

[graffiti]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

Tanks like the Nautalus, Aerotank etc etc will have to have completely different heads to take advantage of the DNA40s temp ability.

Furthermore, the wire that you use to make your coils is essentially non-resistance wire when looking at normal coils.

I see this ending badly. Somebody is going to vent a battery in a mech because they used the wrong wire.

 

[mingot]

Approximately 10% of the population are sensitive to simple contact with nickel. Women so more then men. Laws prohibiting pure nickel jewellery and limiting the amount of nickel that can be found in jewellery have been passed, its been pulled from coinage as well. No it's not just inhaling or ingesting, although we do inhale and ingest nickel everyday.

Bold above, is my edit.

This is not true in the united states.

The only time the US has ever pulled nickel from coinage was in 1942, replacing the nickel content in the nickel with silver and manganese. That ended in 1946 and the composition went back to 75% copper and 25% nickel where it remains to this day.

The rest of our silver colored coins are 8.33% nickel and have been since 1965. Before 1965 they did not contain ANY nickel.

So, really, we've done more adding of nickel than removing.