MRL of 0.00009 mg Ni/m3 has been derived for chronic-duration inhalation exposure (≥1 year). ... The fact that pbusardo said he could taste the nickel leads me to believe this number could be easily passed... But then again I'll wait for the numbers
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Agreed, and as toxicologists are so fond of saying, the dose makes the poison. Problem is, we don't what dose we'd be getting.
Indeed, if any dose at all. There's an excellent chance Dr. F's research could not only put our minds at ease, but give us some ammo to use against the FDA. And if it doesn't, I have faith another way will be found to implement temperature control -- maybe using tungsten, for example. (Maybe; I don't want to turn this into a debate on the relative dangers of tungsten vs nickel coils. Although if anyone decides to start such a post in an appropriate place, let me know.)
I think perhaps the most important point to take away from this whole debate is that the industry is making serious efforts to make its product safer and better in every way. Whether version 1 of temp protection ends up being a long-lived version or not doesn't negate that.
Dr. Farsalinos, if you have the time and inclination, could you expound on your comment that it's probably harmful to dry-burn a coil?
It's common practice for vapers to dry-burn their coils to clean them, as it's about the only way to remove the gunk build-up. I did it for years with disposable atties and continue to do so with the Kanthal coils in my rebuildables. I actually do it quite often, as I vape juices that gunk up coils quick such as extracted tobacco juices. Is this practice done by so many of us truly a health risk?
Titanium might be a good alternate choice. It has a lower temperature coefficient than nickel, but supposedly the DNA-40 will run in temperature-control mode with a titanium coil. Of course having a lower temperature coefficient will mean that the temperature readings won't be accurate, and the control will not be quite as precise, but it should be doable. And as long as you don't get it hot enough to oxidize, there are very few worries with titanium. Zillions of people have permanent titanium implants of various kinds, ranging from dental implants to rods and plates used for orthopedic repairs.
Platinum can be used but the Temp setting needs to be halved when set - per discussions during our Beta testing. But, temp control may not be as accurate, if I recall correctly.
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So halved just like with titanium? Makes me wonder. I'll try the nickel and see if I get a funny taste. 450 degrees isn't that hot. When it gets super hot like glowing then sure, the contaminants will certainly be released, but nobody burns their coils that hot while vaping, and if they do, theres concerns beyond the nickel getting to hot like burnt VG. I for one think that Evolve would have carefully considered and decided on nickel as opposed to Titanium or Platinum. I'm not a big element geek but what about silver wire? that's non-resistance too right? What does silver let off when it's too hot?
Edit: someone beat me to this
I was going to call this company on Monday. They seem to carry many different grades and sizes, but I am not sure whether they sell the smaller quantities we are searching for.
http://www.ulbrich.com/nickel-200
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Silver is the best conductor there is. Better than copper, better than gold. You'd have to use absurdly thin silver wire, or run preposterous currents at exceedingly low voltages to make it work as a heating coil.
Simply for Clarification: 200 set temp= ~400 Deg F if attempting to use Platinum..... FWIW
Platinum? AT ~$1250 an ounce, I don't think platinum wire is going to appeal to very many people.
I suspect you meant titanium?
My first afternoon with the DNA 40D has been interesting, revealing and pleasing. First I slapped my 1.3ohm Rose on it to get the lay of the land in wattage mode and set the DNA to replicate the power I would have with a fresh battery on a mechanical. A nice 13 watt vape just the way I like it.
Then I wrapped a long freehand coil of 28 gauge nickel over 2.5mm Ekowool, I think about 10 wraps. I was not concerned about resistance *at all*, only looking to get a wide long big coil with tons of wick hanging out. I proceeded to stuff it into a Stllare V2i set for one air hole. I left the watts set at 13, screwed the Stillare on the Protovapor and it was recognized at 0.09 ohms. Cool beans. I left the DNA set at the delivered 450 degree mark and fired it dry. Pretty much immediately it hit the temp limit and the wattage throttled, keeping it fairly close to 450. Seemed plenty hot but at no time did it glow.
I juiced it up and started to vape. With juice it took only slightly longer to reach 450, it vaped very well! No funny taste, I'm apparently cool with this coil. After a bit I decided to play with the temperature and took it all the way down to 200. Anemic isn't a good enough word. 350 better, 400 good. In fact I'm bouncing back and forth between 400 and 450 and don't notice any difference in taste or vapor production. That's just what I wanted to hear.
Tomorrow I'm going to redo my uber-sloppy coil and see where this takes me.
Then I wrapped a long freehand coil of 28 gauge nickel over 2.5mm Ekowool, I think about 10 wraps. I was not concerned about resistance *at all*, only looking to get a wide long big coil with tons of wick hanging out. I proceeded to stuff it into a Stllare V2i set for one air hole. I left the watts set at 13, screwed the Stillare on the Protovapor and it was recognized at 0.09 ohms. Cool beans. I left the DNA set at the delivered 450 degree mark and fired it dry. Pretty much immediately it hit the temp limit and the wattage throttled, keeping it fairly close to 450. Seemed plenty hot but at no time did it glow.
I juiced it up and started to vape. With juice it took only slightly longer to reach 450, it vaped very well! No funny taste, I'm apparently cool with this coil. After a bit I decided to play with the temperature and took it all the way down to 200. Anemic isn't a good enough word.
350 better, 400 good. In fact I'm bouncing back and forth between 400 and 450 and don't notice any difference in taste or vapor production. That's just what I wanted to hear.Tomorrow I'm going to redo my uber-sloppy coil and see where this takes me.
Yeppers - Platinum Per the discussion in our forum LOL from a reputable Source
I'm all nickel these days
Best experience in Vaping I'VE ever had!
And I didn't have to spend $1250 to do it
I'm all nickel these days
Best experience in Vaping I'VE ever had!
And I didn't have to spend $1250 to do it
Errrr well... not to get it set up that is....... I've burnt through $1250 10 times over to get to this point in history. But, oh what a wonderful moment it is.
I got my DNA40 today as well. I went for the bap from Vape Dojo. It's not quite what I was expecting but so far it has been interesting. The Ni200 is quite difficult to work with. Wrapping coils is easy but they are very easy to mess up when putting in the atty. I'm sitting at 0.12 ohm dual coil 30g at 30w/450f. Drops down to ~20w in to maintain the temp. Should be good for battery life. I may turn the temp up as 450 seems a bit cool but we'll see how things go.
Note that max temp needs to be gauged by 2 things for safety reasons: 1) Juice vaporization temperature and 2) wick used.
I'd go on, but there are so many variables in juice mix and wick materials that determines max temp - we'd have to blog it
Nope. In fact for me the nickel tasted more inert than new kanthal.
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