Official DNA 40 introduction

[rurwin]

I read the whole thing I don't get what u mean is wrong... The coil part or setting watts to max part

John: So we are wattage dominant. The DNA40 is a temperature protected system, not a temperature regulated system. In a temperature regulated system you might say: “Okay, I’m going to keep this playing at 410 degrees,” but you would have literally minimal to no control over how much vapor comes out: if that temperature’s above the boiling point it will simply boil off everything that gets to it immediately, which isn’t really what you want: that’s not very controllable. So what we do is we say, “At 21 you’re going to get a certain number of millilitres of use per hour or second or whatever,”. So you say: “I want this much vapor, that gives me this much nicotine per draw,” and then if it gets to the maximum temperature then and only then will it back off the wattage, and it will give you less vapor to hold it below that temperature.

Brandon: And the only time it would do that is if your wicking were constrained or your airflow were low.

John: The only time you should be hitting a high temperature is if there’s something non-optimal about your system. Otherwise you’ll be at the boiling point which is around 380–390F. It depends on the juice...

There's a bit before that that says that the times that the temperature limit is hit are those times there is minimal airflow. When the user hesitates in mid-draw and at the beginning and end of the draw.

So during normal use you are not getting to the temperature limit unless the airflow or wicking is sub-optimal, no matter what the temperature limit is (above 390F). Setting maximum watts will mean the vape is largely uncontrolled.

I would love to see the patent that John refers to. Unfortunately it hasn't made it to USPTO.gov or Google Patents yet.

It seems to me that the picture is still not complete. After all, if we never reach any temperature over 390F, then the temperature setting cannot affect the taste. I can only think that we rely on the sub-optimal wicks, the hesitations and end-effects to push the atomiser into a controlled dry-burn in order to modulate the taste. The DNA40 controls this process so we can tune the effect to taste without the danger of going too far and getting those 1200F coils which Evolv observed and which may release nasty products.

So, contrary to what we have been saying all along, watts and temperature are indeed two different variables, because they operate at different times. Watts controls the vape while the wick is efficient and airflow is adequate, and temperature controls it when those fail. Contrary to our expectations, that is not a rare failure case, but a constant and required part of every draw.

 

[ukeman]

WantttoQuit just posted on another thread --- he talked to Brandon about contact coils... B said he uses them too and doesn't worry about shorting or hotspots; B said they sort themselves out.
B is going do publish something about all these real world questions soon.
Nice WTQ emailed B and B called him...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3-dna-40-nr-nickel-builds-3.html#post14433491

 

[dr g]

Well, I think mechs will still be around. For one thing, they'll always be more durable. Another thing with mechs, that you just can't get with the DNA40, is the crazy coil builds that some seem to be so enthused over. That's probably as much of a factor in the current popularity of mechs as the massive clouds thing. Not putting down regulated or mechanical mods, just saying that they in many ways satisfy different markets (though I myself love both mechs and the high Watt regulated mods- which I just got - and I don't cloud chase ).

You can get much wilder with coil design with the new DNA than any mech.

 

[Oliver]

I read the whole thing I don't get what u mean is wrong... The coil part or setting watts to max part

Longer coils heat up slowly... So higher watts mean coils heat faster... Also if your watts are too low the coils may never heat up to temp... Some have recommended just setting the watts to the highest and let temp control do the rest...

This was exactly what I assumed. But it turns out this is not the reason - if you read the interview, again you'll see John explaining why the DNA40 is wattage dominant.

If you had a completely infinite wick, which passed juice to the coil as quickly as it could be boiled off by the atomizer, then for every doubling of wattage you'd end up with a doubling of vapor output. Of course, wicks are not infinite, so what happens is that extra wattage ends up being converted into higher temperature rather than boiling off vapor.

The temperature limitation's sole purpose is to bring the wattage down to a point at which it's boiling off vapor at the maximum efficiency without adding extra temperature to the system - because extra temperature causes potential breakdown of e-liquid into noxious compounds.

It's nothing to do with trying to get up to optimum temperature.

 

[KenD]

You can get much wilder with coil design with the new DNA than any mech.

But those elvis-rides-a-pig, tripple-parallel-hoop-vertical, 16 ga through quad-twisted whatever, and such, that are all the rage on youtube will be impossible (not while using kanthal though). That's the kind of crazy builds that I'm referring to, not the low ohms, though those crazy builds do tend to have very low resistances. Myself, I'm quite satisfied with standard micro coils

 

[EuroChris]

Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:

"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."[/I]

HTH

Can you compare it to inhalable drugs? I mean, when you use an Asthma inhaler you take one or two puffs. When vaping, you do way more. And what sort of e-cigarettes were tested? Cigalikes? Egos? Dual coil clearomizers? Rebuildables?

Just playing the devil's advocate here.

 

[want to quit]

He said as long as all wraps are touching it's no problem as each wrap shorts itself out or something like that. Maybe I am the worst to even talk to him as you know I am an idiot with technical stuff. One thing is for sure, he uses contact coils as well and loves it and that is all that matters to me as spaced coils are something I was never good with lol.

Edit: Also, if you watch phils video on the squape he uses as well contact coils and it worked flawless and beyond.

WantttoQuit just posted on another thread --- he talked to Brandon about contact coils... B said he uses them too and doesn't worry about shorting or hotspots; B said they sort themselves out.
B is going do publish something about all these real world questions soon.
Nice WTQ emailed B and B called him...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3-dna-40-nr-nickel-builds-3.html#post14433491

 

[KGie]

Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:

"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."[/I]

HTH

Can you compare it to inhalable drugs? I mean, when you use an Asthma inhaler you take one or two puffs. When vaping, you do way more. And what sort of e-cigarettes were tested? Cigalikes? Egos? Dual coil clearomizers? Rebuildables?

Just playing the devil's advocate here.

And doing a darn good job of it. (That said, I just ordered a VaporShark rDNA 40.

 

[dr g]

It's nothing to do with trying to get up to optimum temperature.

To be fair, the feature does allow another feature -- preheat -- which does help get to temperature.

 

[HolmanGT]

WantttoQuit just posted on another thread --- he talked to Brandon about contact coils... B said he uses them too and doesn't worry about shorting or hotspots; B said they sort themselves out.
B is going do publish something about all these real world questions soon.
Nice WTQ emailed B and B called him...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3-dna-40-nr-nickel-builds-3.html#post14433491

The only problem with that "ukeman" is everything on the WEB Site says "Coming Soon".

 

[ukeman]

I can imagine the concern if you are not versed in rebuilding and all that comes with it... that said I am stoked they put this out now.

A question i have is what do we do with gunked or semi gunked coils that we used to dry burn?
I am vaping on the first coil I made and have now rewicked it after 2 or 3 days....2 or 3 batt changes (dual batt Flask) and a good 20 ml of juice.

Like a lot of sub ohms vapers I go through a lot of low nic juice a day, with a bunch of different devices. It feels like the dna40 keeps the gunking down to a minimum but there's a point where coil needs cleaning or changing.

 

[MordorMongo]

I am envisioning more frequent coil changes personally. I guess it just seems in my mind like the nature of the beast with nickel. I re-wicked my kayfun today after 3 1/2 days and the coil looked fine though, so who knows? Time will tell I suppose.

 

[SeniorBoy]

And doing a darn good job of it. (That said, I just ordered a VaporShark rDNA 40.

Congrats and welcome to the Tribe. /lol

Not sure this will help you but subscribe to the following thread and you will know real fast when they start shipping the VS 40:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/583070-vaporshark-rdna-58.html#post14434910

I may get my VS 30 upgraded. Just depends.

 

[KGie]

Congrats and welcome to the Tribe. /lol

Not sure this will help you but subscribe to the following thread and you will know real fast when they start shipping the VS 40:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/583070-vaporshark-rdna-58.html#post14434910

I may get my VS 30 upgraded. Just depends.

Wow, thanks for the link. Lessee' -- it's 230 pages -- now all I need to do is figure out where the talk about the 40 starts.

 

[Coldrake]

As promised - here it is: http://vaping.com/news/exclusive-interview-brandon-john-from-evolv

Thank you, and great interview! It's easy to see why Evolv is on the leading edge of vaping technology. After reading it, I have to say that I'm extremely impressed.

 

[BigBen01]

My DNA 40 will NOT, I repeat, will NOT switch OUT of temp mode when using kanthal. I built a kanthal coil for fun today and it is reading it like nickel? Anybody else having this issue? It displays temp and not volts with kanthal.

 

[want to quit]

I think you have the same thing I did. No matter what mode its on just fire it. It will go after the watts just disregard the temp. It just won't work with kanthal so it's not effected. I think after a few puffs it just switched to V instead of F and if not than it still goes by the Watts.

 

[ukeman]

that's interesting; i have a single coil 2mm ID, 30g, .18 ohms (10 or 12 wraps) and tried your settings: 440 and 40w.
When semi cool, the coil only goes up to 33w to heat up and then when warm/hot, doesn't go more than 10w (5 to 10w fluctutions) and vapor is not dense enough...
that's why i go up to 500. the watts fluctuate between 20 and 30w and vapor is more dense. it seems I have to be careful not to outrun the wicking while vaping or it will cause some minor burning though.

I just up the ID of my coil to 2.5mm lots of cotton and i drop down to 450 because it seems 500 was too much for a thicker coil...

Not only that but the wattage produced during firing is much more than with the smaller ID. Goes through the juice faster too (but the vapor is more dense).

the dynamics of this thing is intriguing.

 

[want to quit]

did you set this up on a RDA or kayfun? coils touching? I think I might empty one of my kayfuns and try to up the ID to 2.5mm and give it a go I am just worried about fitting all that cotton into a kayfun.

Really glad I sold my mini kayfun a while ago or else I would shoot myself trying to fit a 2.5mm coil in the chamber lol.

I just up the ID of my coil to 2.5mm lots of cotton and i drop down to 450 because it seems 500 was too much for a thicker coil...

Not only that but the wattage produced during firing is much more than with the smaller ID. Goes through the juice faster too (but the vapor is more dense).

the dynamics of this thing is intriguing.

 

[ukeman]

I just up the ID of my coil to 2.5mm lots of cotton and i drop down to 450 because it seems 500 was too much for a thicker coil...

Not only that but the wattage produced during firing is much more than with the smaller ID. Goes through the juice faster too (but the vapor is more dense).

the dynamics of this thing is intriguing.

Forgot to say the resistance is .22 (11 wrap).... after initial breakin, watts went down as vaping (under 15) so I'm just happy its a good vape.

Yes its my same Achilles dripper tank; just a dripper with 2 deep drip wells, and air under the single coil. One of my favorites for flavor.