Official DNA 40 introduction

[rusirius]

Just for fun, here's s couple pics I shot this morning when rebuilding my atomic rda.

Instead of the way I had been hardening the wire, I instead used a drill the way rip tripper showed to straighten kanthal. It worked beautiful and was much faster than the old method.

 

[TheKiwi]

Got my rdna40 today and it became immediately obvious how messed up the chip in my flask was. So there's that. My RDNA is working perfectly and everything I've wanted.


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[KGie]

Not that it couldn't cause the issues in some, but many of the issues I've seen, like not detecting coils right, resetting base resistance all the time, etc... are all issues I experienced with my first board that also experienced the screen glitch. I'm an ee and build electronics all the time. Definitely wasn't a grounding issue in my case unless it was integral to the board itself. I suspect even if it doesn't manifest in an extreme way, I think it's all the same defect. My second board has been flawless since I got it.

I was thinking about you and almost included a comment about your issues (in an already long post), because your problems I always thought were different than many of the ones I'm seeing talked about in this thread and that I was addressing here. There was clearly a problem with the early boards which was presumably fixed. But I think there may be a problem in addition to that. The reason I added so many caveats and "maybe's" and "possibly's" in my post is because I can't really tell from this distance if the problem with the board itself is separate and distinct from the ones lots of people are having, that among other things seem to have nothing to do with screen glitches.

What specifically led me to believe there is also a problem with certain mods is that it seems like many more people with Flasks are reporting issues than people with XPV's. But maybe that's because Protovapor has better internal Q&A and most of the mods they've shipped are from newer stock Evolv boards, and Flasks will be fine when they start using new-stock boards. Debugging circuits from this distance with disconnected second-hand information is going to be hit or miss at best.

The question is: are people with "new stock" boards still having problems? Connection problems can occur anywhere in the circuit, including of course the atomizer, so I in no way meant to imply what I was describing was the only thing causing all the problems. But possibly some significant number of them.

 

[Pete54]

Hana Modz DNA 40: Full Review - YouTube

I figured it probably wasn't true but wasn't sure.

Tried to watch the review but after hearing that the 22mm Russian was "at least 23mm or more", I decided that the reviewers facts might not be what they should be. He says the pin is a floating pin which it can't be as floating indicates the ability to push it back up from the bottom as is common in tube mods. A box mod that does not allow access to the bottom of the pin can only be either spring loaded or adjustable by screwing the pin in and out from the top. He also does not demonstrate the "floating" pin so, while I thank you for posting ithe review, I remain fairly certain that all Hana's come with a fixed 510 pin.

 

[rusirius]

I was thinking about you and almost included a comment about your issues (in an already long post), because your problems I always thought were different than many of the ones I'm seeing talked about in this thread and that I was addressing here. There was clearly a problem with the early boards which was presumably fixed. But I think there may be a problem in addition to that. The reason I added so many caveats and "maybe's" and "possibly's" in my post is because I can't really tell from this distance if the problem with the board itself is separate and distinct from the ones lots of people are having, that among other things seem to have nothing to do with screen glitches.

What specifically led me to believe there is also a problem with certain mods is that it seems like many more people with Flasks are reporting issues than people with XPV's. But maybe that's because Protovapor has better internal Q&A and most of the mods they've shipped are from newer stock Evolv boards, and Flasks will be fine when they start using new-stock boards. Debugging circuits from this distance with disconnected second-hand information is going to be hit or miss at best.

The question is: are people with "new stock" boards still having problems? Connection problems can occur anywhere in the circuit, including of course the atomizer, so I in no way meant to imply what I was describing was the only thing causing all the problems. But possibly some significant number of them.

If you're anything like me... I'm sure you've had those instances where you were trying to troubleshoot something... And it just didn't make sense... It doesn't seem to be just one thing. I smiled when you said that about troubleshooting from a distance. Often times the issues I try to diagnose are through user reports. So there's the X problem. And this person says one thing is happening... That person says that happens, but so does this... and this... and this... and so on... Before you know it you have all these reports of all these crazy things and it's almost impossible to try to sort it out.

I honestly think it's a combination of things as you said. I think perhaps it was the vias, but I think it ran deeper than that. As I said, in my board the vias were VERY well insulated (from the factory) yet the problem still persisted. Many of the issues I had mirror what I've heard from others, just in my case they seemed a lot more intense and worse. Like Kiwi for example, when his screen garbled (only occasionally), it would only be a small part of the screen. Sometimes it would lock and other times it wouldn't. In my case it garbled much more frequently but always completely locked when it did, and completely garbled the screen when it did. It presented in a much worse fashion in my case. However, the other issues he experienced, like it not detecting coils properly, changing resistance on them, etc... Were all also issues I experienced, but they were kinda muddled by the screen issue. In fact, they continued to happen even after I realized that turning it to stealth mode would prevent the screen from garbling. But of course in stealth mode I only knew the vape was suffering, I didn't know why because I couldn't see that it was redetecting the resistance of my coils every time I turned around, which in turn was making my set temp change all over the place.

On the other hand, I see other's having issues that I'm pretty sure are completely unrelated to the problem. For instance I know I've seen on a few posts where people were complaining that their coils had much higher resistance than they expected, or that the resistance changed drastically from one moment to the next. To me that sounds more like a termination problem with posts loosening or whatever.

I'm not going to swear to this... and there very well may be more, but I think there are at least 3 different versions of this board out there now. The first which had the uninsulated vias... The second which was corrected at the factory by applying some sort of gray "goop" (looked like maybe the liquid electrical tape stuff) under the ribbon cable (this was the version I got for my first board) and a third which is what I received for my second board. The third version doesn't have the gray goop under the ribbon. However, the mask has been modified and the vias are covered in the conformal coating. Although it looked the same, it also seemed slightly different as well. There is a conformal coating of some sort over the entire board, my first board had this, but it seemed thinner and a bit different than what I had on my second board.

Anyway, on the bright side at least they (Evolv) are responding to the issues and taking care of it. As for why there seems to be a lower incidence rate with Protovapor, I dunno. I like you guess their QC may be higher. Maybe a bit more testing before just boxing it up and sending it out. I'm also not sure how the screen is mounted in them versus the other devices. It's possible there could be a different position that makes it less likely to cause issues?

 

[DejayRezme]

There are both obvious and unexpected ways grounding can go awry, some of which are pretty subtle. In the obvious camp are such things as bad solder joints, missing ground wires or PCB traces, etc. I expect these are unlikely in the current DNA 40 products that are already on the market.

Well one other guy had bad connection with a DIY hana clone case with the ear and screw connecting ground to the case. Something like this could slip past QA for other mods too.

Has anyone with resistance fluctuation problems on the vapor flask tried to clean the threads of the cap / aluminium body to see if that helped?

 

[julpin]

Well one other guy had bad connection with a DIY hana clone case with the ear and screw connecting ground to the case. Something like this could slip past QA for other mods too.

Has anyone with resistance fluctuation problems on the vapor flask tried to clean the threads of the cap / aluminium body to see if that helped?

Will do right now, thats not a bad idea. Mine fluctuate in resistance, ohms and wattage, wattage being the weirdest, 0.3, 0.9 and so on all the way up to whatever wattage i have it set to.

 

[ukeman]

I got my Flask40 from VapinArt... snagged in the first minute of opening bell. No issues in 2 1/2 weeks.
I use it every day.

I dont believe I am in the minority, but I believe most without issue don't post much, but if I did have an issue you know dang well I'd be posting here... it gives the impression that the dna40 is fraught with issues and a fail, and I am just very lucky which is probably wrong.
I do feel lucky though and with the price of these things I feel for the ones with problems.

Thing is, we have to sort user error, atomizer issues, build issues, from actual chip glitches (which are real for sure) to get the real overview of this roll out.
This will happen in time.
----
One morning it wouldn't wake up. I checked batts and they were good (4v each)...
I replaced batts and it woke up; maybe needed rebooting.

 

[julpin]

Thing is, we have to sort user error, atomizer issues, build issues, from actual chip glitches (which are real for sure) to get the real overview of this roll out.
This will happen in time.
----
One morning it wouldn't wake up. I checked batts and they were good (4v each)...
I replaced batts and it woke up; maybe needed rebooting.

Completely true, apparently ohms, voltage and wattage does have to fluctuate (using Kanthal), supposedly this is normal operation for the DNA 40 chip, and yet we are reporting it as a problem just because we don`t know exactly how this work, and probably comparing it to the DNA 30.

 

[rusirius]

Completely true, apparently ohms, voltage and wattage does have to fluctuate, supposedly this is normal operation for the DNA 40 chip, and yet we are reporting it as a problem just because we don`t know exactly how this work, and probably comparing it to the DNA 30.

Not exactly. Yes the wattage fluctuates when in TP mode. However I haven't seen anyone short of the one previous poster reporting that as a problem. The resistance does change as the coil heats up, however the DNA40 doesn't show that, at least when NOT firing. Once you let off the fire button it resets back (regardless of the current resistance) back to show whatever the base resistance of the current coil is. On my first board with the issues the base resistance would fluctuate, but only after it idled. So I put a new coil on, it reads as .11 ohm. I fire it, let go and it still reads .11 ohm... No matter how much I fire, no matter how much I chain vape, it'll still always read .11 ohm... Even though the coil might truly be say .13 at the time due to it being much warmer than room temp. On my first board though, I could vape a bit, sit it down, pick it back up a few minutes later and as soon as I'd fire it would "re-read" the coil, so now it displays .13 instead of .11. And in doing so also happens to allow the temp to go way above my preset.

I agree though that I do think there are some reported issues that really aren't issues at all. But the water is very grey. For instance. I've seen many posts mention that they have issues because it doesn't "ask" about rather it's a new coil every time they put a new atty on. This could very well be misunderstanding. It's not SUPPOSED to always ask every single time. If the resistance of the new atty is the same as the old resistance then it doesn't need to change anything. Further, from what I can tell, when the resistance drops lower than the previous base resistance it just "knows" it's a new coil and doesn't bother to ask. On the other hand, when it increases it could just be that the atty is still warm, or it could be that it's a new coil... So sometimes it asks, sometimes it doesn't. It's supposed to be "smart" enough to not always have to ask. And it works. At least on my second one... So someone who sees it not always asks and thinks it's a problem may not actually have one...

However, this is muddied by the fact that one symtom that is displayed on boards with the problem is that it doesn't ask, or very rarely. It just resets it's base resistance willy nilly. LOL. My first board was like that. It rarely would ask if there was a new coil. Yet it would reset it's base resistance frequently. The point is it's tough when there's a problem that manifests like this that CAN be a problem but may not be in all cases.

 

[TheKiwi]

I dunno... My rdna40 asks me if I have a new atty every single time, even when I'm unscrewing an atty for a few seconds and plonking it back on. I find that to be far better.

The fact is, if your mod thinks your 0.18 ohm build is the same as the previous 0.15 build and doesn't ask if it's a new atty, that 0.03 ohm difference represents a 20% "increase" in resistance, which is not trivial at all.


ETA: went through all the interviews and the data sheet. There is absolutely no mention that the chip is "supposed to know" it's a new atty, whether explicit or implicit. The data sheet does however explicit state that you will be prompted when you attach a new or existing atomizer. The closest thing I've found to the above post is that Brandon has replied to a couple of folks that the resistance of a existing atomizer MIGHT change as it sits on the mod, and it is intelligently calibrating itself. Apart from that, I don't actually think it's accurate to say that the chip isn't supposed to ask if it's a new atomizer each time, or that it's supposed to know. Because it most certainly isn't the case with my rDNA40, and neither is it supported by any documentation/statements from
Evolv

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[julpin]

Not exactly. Yes the wattage fluctuates when in TP mode. However I haven't seen anyone short of the one previous poster reporting that as a problem. The resistance does change as the coil heats up, however the DNA40 doesn't show that, at least when NOT firing. Once you let off the fire button it resets back (regardless of the current resistance) back to show whatever the base resistance of the current coil is. On my first board with the issues the base resistance would fluctuate, but only after it idled. So I put a new coil on, it reads as .11 ohm. I fire it, let go and it still reads .11 ohm... No matter how much I fire, no matter how much I chain vape, it'll still always read .11 ohm... Even though the coil might truly be say .13 at the time due to it being much warmer than room temp. On my first board though, I could vape a bit, sit it down, pick it back up a few minutes later and as soon as I'd fire it would "re-read" the coil, so now it displays .13 instead of .11. And in doing so also happens to allow the temp to go way above my preset.

I agree though that I do think there are some reported issues that really aren't issues at all. But the water is very grey. For instance. I've seen many posts mention that they have issues because it doesn't "ask" about rather it's a new coil every time they put a new atty on. This could very well be misunderstanding. It's not SUPPOSED to always ask every single time. If the resistance of the new atty is the same as the old resistance then it doesn't need to change anything. Further, from what I can tell, when the resistance drops lower than the previous base resistance it just "knows" it's a new coil and doesn't bother to ask. On the other hand, when it increases it could just be that the atty is still warm, or it could be that it's a new coil... So sometimes it asks, sometimes it doesn't. It's supposed to be "smart" enough to not always have to ask. And it works. At least on my second one... So someone who sees it not always asks and thinks it's a problem may not actually have one...

However, this is muddied by the fact that one symtom that is displayed on boards with the problem is that it doesn't ask, or very rarely. It just resets it's base resistance willy nilly. LOL. My first board was like that. It rarely would ask if there was a new coil. Yet it would reset it's base resistance frequently. The point is it's tough when there's a problem that manifests like this that CAN be a problem but may not be in all cases.

The issue with mine is that I am not using TP at all it is off, I am only using Kanthal, the ohms change for example 1.3 to 1.39 back to 1.33 and so on when firing same as voltage 4.5, 4.6 4.92, and WATTS which is what I just don`t know if it is supposed to go from 0.1 or 0.3 all the way up, people at VF told me that is normal but people over here are telling me that it doesn`t happen with their units using Kanthal, that I should check my connections, I may just do that, but I doubt I`ll encounter any issues with my builds, I am using a Stillare and a 454, also a Nautilus.

 

[Nomoreash]

The issue with mine is that I am not using TP at all it is off, I am only using Kanthal, the ohms change for example 1.3 to 1.39 back to 1.33 and so on when firing same as voltage 4.5, 4.6 4.92, and WATTS which is what I just don`t know if it is supposed to go from 0.1 or 0.3 all the way up, people at VF told me that is normal but people over here are telling me that it doesn`t happen with their units using Kanthal, that I should check my connections, I may just do that, but I doubt I`ll encounter any issues with my builds, I am using a Stillare and a 454, also a Nautilus.

It can only be a good thing to check your connections but fluctuations in ohms between 1.3 and 1.39 is nothing to worry about. That's less than a 10th of an ohm and it's normal for Kanthal or any other wire to change resistance when heated. It's also making corrections in the voltage as your ohm changes so that's normal also. If you were seeing wide fluctuations then yes that might be something to check into but small fluctuations are completely normal. Also your wattage going up to your set point when you fire is normal.

 

[k5blazer]

For those interested in if the Hana Modz DNA 40 has a floating or spring loaded 510 pin, the answer is yes. I can push it down, and it springs back. I've had mine for almost 3 weeks now without issue. Love the tc feature.

 

[350ZMO]

Maybe.

I've been following this thread since the beginning, and I think I'm starting to notice a couple of patterns.

Bad grounds and ground loops can – almost certainly will – wreck havoc on logic circuits especially, cause hum in audio equipment and a diverse host of other ailments, often apparently unrelated, and often intermittent.

Sound familiar? Having a high integrity ground system is almost surely even more critical when you start measuring resistance down to two decimal places, and it should be easy enough to determine if I'm on the right track here: we just need to answer the question of how each mod physically handles ground connections, and the integrity of the entire grounding system.

I don't think it is a blind alley at all. There are always going to be one offs and there may be more to it, eg forums usually draw more people that have problems than those with none, but baring that stuff, I doubt seriously only one or two companies got bad chips. Both my XPV and DIY Hammond box mod work flawlessly and have worked so well they have proven useful tools in sorting out atty problems like loose center pins. And you are spot on wrt ground and not only measuring down to two decimal places but making calculations and decisions on those measurements. It could also be the gauge and length of wire used for the battery and 510, atty internals, battery contacts and even the batteries themselves. Accuracy is one thing, consistency is quite another. KGie are you a EE?

 

[Mark Denison]

For those interested in if the Hana Modz DNA 40 has a floating or spring loaded 510 pin, the answer is yes. I can push it down, and it springs back. I've had mine for almost 3 weeks now without issue. Love the tc feature.

Mine will go down but doesn't come back up. I have to pry it back up

 

[rusirius]

I dunno... My rdna40 asks me if I have a new atty every single time, even when I'm unscrewing an atty for a few seconds and plonking it back on. I find that to be far better.

The fact is, if your mod thinks your 0.18 ohm build is the same as the previous 0.15 build and doesn't ask if it's a new atty, that 0.03 ohm difference represents a 20% "increase" in resistance, which is not trivial at all.


ETA: went through all the interviews and the data sheet. There is absolutely no mention that the chip is "supposed to know" it's a new atty, whether explicit or implicit. The data sheet does however explicit state that you will be prompted when you attach a new or existing atomizer. The closest thing I've found to the above post is that Brandon has replied to a couple of folks that the resistance of a existing atomizer MIGHT change as it sits on the mod, and it is intelligently calibrating itself. Apart from that, I don't actually think it's accurate to say that the chip isn't supposed to ask if it's a new atomizer each time, or that it's supposed to know. Because it most certainly isn't the case with my rDNA40, and neither is it supported by any documentation/statements from
Evolv

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If I swap off an atty that has the same resistance it never asks. If it's lower then it just takes the resistance and sets it to the new base. If it's higher then it almost always asks. I'm pretty sure if you watch the pbusardo video with Brandon he specifically states that it tries to be smart about it and doesn't always ask.

 

[TheKiwi]

If I swap off an atty that has the same resistance it never asks. If it's lower then it just takes the resistance and sets it to the new base. If it's higher then it almost always asks. I'm pretty sure if you watch the pbusardo video with Brandon he specifically states that it tries to be smart about it and doesn't always ask.

Welp. I dunno. :/ imma just be contented with what I haz


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[peraspera]

I dunno... My rdna40 asks me if I have a new atty every single time, even when I'm unscrewing an atty for a few seconds and plonking it back on. I find that to be far better.

The fact is, if your mod thinks your 0.18 ohm build is the same as the previous 0.15 build and doesn't ask if it's a new atty, that 0.03 ohm difference represents a 20% "increase" in resistance, which is not trivial at all.


ETA: went through all the interviews and the data sheet. There is absolutely no mention that the chip is "supposed to know" it's a new atty, whether explicit or implicit. The data sheet does however explicit state that you will be prompted when you attach a new or existing atomizer. The closest thing I've found to the above post is that Brandon has replied to a couple of folks that the resistance of a existing atomizer MIGHT change as it sits on the mod, and it is intelligently calibrating itself. Apart from that, I don't actually think it's accurate to say that the chip isn't supposed to ask if it's a new atomizer each time, or that it's supposed to know. Because it most certainly isn't the case with my rDNA40, and neither is it supported by any documentation/statements from
Evolv

I've only had my rDNA40 since Friday but mine definitely does not ask to select the same or new atomizer if both the rDNA40 and atty are at room temp when I remove the atty and put it back on. If the atty is warm it always seems to ask. At 24:40 in his interview with Phil Brandon talks about the DNA 40 only asking for user input when the board doesn't know on its own.

 

[julpin]

Where are you guys buying your ni200? I can`t seem to find a seller that accept non-US credit cards.