Officials report biggest fall in adult smoking in decades

[NealBJr]

I have used vaping to stop smoking, so for me its a smoking cessation device.

The smell of cigarette smoke now repels me, so Im not sure where they get the argument that vaping leads to smoking....just unsubstantiated BS theyve made up. Like saying [Other Stuff] leads to [Worse Other Stuff] addiction.

Now, when I smell cigarette smoke, I want to remove myself from its path...so I won't be going back even if I dont have any vape gear at hand. Ive seen the way things should be, so smoking analogs now is a step backwards for me.

I agree. Their logic is: "if A=C, and B=C, then A=B".... It is a valid point mathematically, but we're not talking mathematics. If Smoking = Nicotine, and Vaping = Nicotine, then Vaping is Smoking.... that's their logic. Apply it to anything else and it sounds absurd. If Walking=Travelling, and Driving=Travelling, then Walking=Driving... start selling Walking licenses... or... if Alcohol=Drinking, and Water=Drinking, then Alcohol=Water... Start raising the limit of water drinking to 21.

The Truth is..... It's not a mathematical equation. They have studied smoking, and how nicotine works through smoking. There has been little study on pure Nicotine itself separated from smoking. There has been some, and it is proven that although it is addicting, it's not as addicting as when taken from a cigarette. They have even been told that cigarettes ADD chemicals to Enhance the Nicotine... this was proven through several documents that they found a use for ammonia even though they knew it would enhance the nicotine (Ref) .

It is known that nicotine obtained from a cigarette is on a totally different level than just the straight nicotine itself. That fact needs to be publicized and made open. Nicotine is NOT a carcinogen, it does have some benefits to the body if taken moderately. (ref1) (ref2) (ref3). The main guilt that nicotine has, is it happens to be consumed by combustion with thousands of other chemicals. And those other chemicals cause cancer/lung disease.

In conclusion... people are convinced that cigarettes and nicotine are one and the same... which they're not. The FDA needs to realize this, and talk to scientists that have done the studies. In all honesty, I doubt they will due to the fact that they're paid quite well to keep those two on equal terms.

 

[VNeil]

I agree. Their logic is: "if A=C, and B=C, then A=B".... It is a valid point mathematically, but we're not talking mathematics. If Smoking = Nicotine, and Vaping = Nicotine, then Vaping is Smoking.... that's their logic. Apply it to anything else and it sounds absurd. If Walking=Travelling, and Driving=Travelling, then Walking=Driving... start selling Walking licenses... or... if Alcohol=Drinking, and Water=Drinking, then Alcohol=Water... Start raising the limit of water drinking to 21.

The Truth is..... It's not a mathematical equation. They have studied smoking, and how nicotine works through smoking. There has been little study on pure Nicotine itself separated from smoking. There has been some, and it is proven that although it is addicting, it's not as addicting as when taken from a cigarette. They have even been told that cigarettes ADD chemicals to Enhance the Nicotine... this was proven through several documents that they found a use for ammonia even though they knew it would enhance the nicotine (Ref) .

It is known that nicotine obtained from a cigarette is on a totally different level than just the straight nicotine itself. That fact needs to be publicized and made open. Nicotine is NOT a carcinogen, it does have some benefits to the body if taken moderately. (ref1) (ref2) (ref3). The main guilt that nicotine has, is it happens to be consumed by combustion with thousands of other chemicals. And those other chemicals cause cancer/lung disease.

In conclusion... people are convinced that cigarettes and nicotine are one and the same... which they're not. The FDA needs to realize this, and talk to scientists that have done the studies. In all honesty, I doubt they will due to the fact that they're paid quite well to keep those two on equal terms.

In fact I don't think you can cite any study concluding that nicotine by itself is addictive at all.

 

[sonicdsl]

In fact I don't think you can cite any study concluding that nicotine by itself is addictive at all.

Is Nicotine Addictive ?

 

[LittleBird]

@Robino1

Here's the latest:

Majority Media | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee



YES!!!!

There is an area where you can contact them. I told them my story, thanked them, and said how many MORE millions of lives could be saved by e cigs, especially the more technologically advanced ones...

Thank you, Katmar. I've just written the committee. I, too, am hopeful that lots of people will write and express their support. The senate has expressed little interest in vaping. Perhaps Senator Johnson can reverse that tide.

 

[VNeil]

Is Nicotine Addictive ?

Despite the fact that the FDA is claiming nicotine is "highly addictive" in their current anti-vaping smear campaign, in 2013 they published this:

Federal Register | Modifications To Labeling of Nicotine Replacement Therapy Products for Over-the-Counter Human Use

Where they modified the labeling of OTC NRT products such as nic gum, patches and lozenges. Buried deep they had this to say...

"We also note that although any nicotine-containing product has the potential to be addicting, based on the available evidence, currently marketed OTC NRT products do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence. A 2010 review of historical reports made to the Agency's Adverse Event Reporting System and to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's Drug Abuse Warning Network between 1984 and 2009 suggested that NRT products have a low potential for abuse. Several published studies have also found that the abuse liability and dependence potential of NRT products is low, especially compared to cigarettes (see West et al., 2000; Houtsmuller et al., 2002)."

Of course, the FDA is the best regulatory agency BP money can buy

 

[Oliver]

I agree. Their logic is: "if A=C, and B=C, then A=B".... It is a valid point mathematically, but we're not talking mathematics. If Smoking = Nicotine, and Vaping = Nicotine, then Vaping is Smoking.... that's their logic. Apply it to anything else and it sounds absurd. If Walking=Travelling, and Driving=Travelling, then Walking=Driving... start selling Walking licenses... or... if Alcohol=Drinking, and Water=Drinking, then Alcohol=Water... Start raising the limit of water drinking to 21.

The Truth is..... It's not a mathematical equation. They have studied smoking, and how nicotine works through smoking. There has been little study on pure Nicotine itself separated from smoking. There has been some, and it is proven that although it is addicting, it's not as addicting as when taken from a cigarette. They have even been told that cigarettes ADD chemicals to Enhance the Nicotine... this was proven through several documents that they found a use for ammonia even though they knew it would enhance the nicotine (Ref) .

It is known that nicotine obtained from a cigarette is on a totally different level than just the straight nicotine itself. That fact needs to be publicized and made open. Nicotine is NOT a carcinogen, it does have some benefits to the body if taken moderately. (ref1) (ref2) (ref3). The main guilt that nicotine has, is it happens to be consumed by combustion with thousands of other chemicals. And those other chemicals cause cancer/lung disease.

In conclusion... people are convinced that cigarettes and nicotine are one and the same... which they're not. The FDA needs to realize this, and talk to scientists that have done the studies. In all honesty, I doubt they will due to the fact that they're paid quite well to keep those two on equal terms.

Everything you say is correct. But in the twisted world of science and public possibly, nothing is simple.

Here's the problem - while simultaneously acknowledging that nicotine is far safer than smoking, the FDA is also captured and feeding back into the biggest moral panic of our age: that a new epidemic of addiction is taking place amongst US youths. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and every reason to suspect that the opposite is in fact true.

Nevertheless, the FDA knows which way the wind blows, and is happy to use the cover to push through its regulatory capture of vape products. Remember, all regulatory agencies want to regulate, so this is not sinister - it's just a law of nature.

And the FDA's logic is perfect if you don't know the facts: "we'd rather smokers use nicotine alone, but we can't have adolescents falling prey to its effects" - in other words, it's perfectly acceptible for them to shut down the industry, because it will eventually figure out which products should remain due to the public health benefits to smokers and which ones won't appeal to adolescents.

They've shown no reason for us to believe this is remotely within their capabilities (or even in the realm of possibility), and the recent revelation that they pushed for a full flavor ban shows that they cannot understand why vaping works for people.

And here's the rub for Myers and his crew: in the same way that FDA cannot figure out why vape works for smokers, they'll also never be able to figure out what appeals to adolescents... So the brutal truth is that smokers lives will be traded for a threat against adolescents that hasn't manifested, and won't manifest ever.

It's almost unbelievable this has come to pass. But there we are. The stupid is strong.

 

[Katmar]

Everything you say is correct. But in the twisted world of science and public possibly, nothing is simple.

Here's the problem - while simultaneously acknowledging that nicotine is far safer than smoking, the FDA is also captured and feeding back into the biggest moral panic of our age: that a new epidemic of addiction is taking place amongst US youths. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and every reason to suspect that the opposite is in fact true.

Nevertheless, the FDA knows which way the wind blows, and is happy to use the cover to push through its regulatory capture of vape products. Remember, all regulatory agencies want to regulate, so this is not sinister - it's just a law of nature.

And the FDA's logic is perfect if you don't know the facts: "we'd rather smokers use nicotine alone, but we can't have adolescents falling prey to its effects" - in other words, it's perfectly acceptible for them to shut down the industry, because it will eventually figure out which products should remain due to the public health benefits to smokers and which ones won't appeal to adolescents.

They've shown no reason for us to believe this is remotely within their capabilities (or even in the realm of possibility), and the recent revelation that they pushed for a full flavor ban shows that they cannot understand why vaping works for people.

And here's the rub for Myers and his crew: in the same way that FDA cannot figure out why vape works for smokers, they'll also never be able to figure out what appeals to adolescents... So the brutal truth is that smokers lives will be traded for a threat against adolescents that hasn't manifested, and won't manifest ever.

It's almost unbelievable this has come to pass. But there we are. The stupid is strong.

But it ain't over, Oliver. So many people on the front lines battling this. It's pretty incredible.

 

[VNeil]

Everything you say is correct. But in the twisted world of science and public possibly, nothing is simple.

Here's the problem - while simultaneously acknowledging that nicotine is far safer than smoking, the FDA is also captured and feeding back into the biggest moral panic of our age: that a new epidemic of addiction is taking place amongst US youths. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and every reason to suspect that the opposite is in fact true.

Nevertheless, the FDA knows which way the wind blows, and is happy to use the cover to push through its regulatory capture of vape products. Remember, all regulatory agencies want to regulate, so this is not sinister - it's just a law of nature.

And the FDA's logic is perfect if you don't know the facts: "we'd rather smokers use nicotine alone, but we can't have adolescents falling prey to its effects" - in other words, it's perfectly acceptible for them to shut down the industry, because it will eventually figure out which products should remain due to the public health benefits to smokers and which ones won't appeal to adolescents.

They've shown no reason for us to believe this is remotely within their capabilities (or even in the realm of possibility), and the recent revelation that they pushed for a full flavor ban shows that they cannot understand why vaping works for people.

And here's the rub for Myers and his crew: in the same way that FDA cannot figure out why vape works for smokers, they'll also never be able to figure out what appeals to adolescents... So the brutal truth is that smokers lives will be traded for a threat against adolescents that hasn't manifested, and won't manifest ever.

It's almost unbelievable this has come to pass. But there we are. The stupid is strong.

FDA knows why vaping works. Knows why flavors work. They know how effective it is, which is why they are trying to BAN open systems rather than actually regulate it.

They wanted to ban flavors on Aug 8 because they know that 99% of the retail market is flavored. That would have been a ban with 90 days notice. These are not stupid or ignorant people.

I'll never understand why so many want to give them a pass by assuming ignorance.

 

[DC2]

Here's the problem - while simultaneously acknowledging that nicotine is far safer than smoking, the FDA is also captured and feeding back into the biggest moral panic of our age: that a new epidemic of addiction is taking place amongst US youths. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and every reason to suspect that the opposite is in fact true.

I'm sorry Oliver, but it is SO much more egregious than that.

First of all, yes, nicotine is safer than smoking.
Duh, no-brainer.

They gotta say that to help out their Big Pharma pals.

But this whole business about a new epidemic fails in ways that are truly spectacular...
--Nicotine may not really even be all that addictive in the first place
--And if nicotine is mostly harmless in the first place, then who cares even if it is addictive
--And regardless of any of that, nobody that starts by vaping is going to go to smoking

The whole thing is like going through the Looking Glass.
And the White Knight is talking backwards.

 

[VNeil]

I'm sorry Oliver, but it is SO much more egregious than that.

First of all, yes, nicotine is safer than smoking.
Duh, no-brainer.

They gotta say that to help out their Big Pharma pals.

But this whole business about a new epidemic fails in ways that are truly spectacular...
--Nicotine may not really even be all that addictive in the first place
--And if nicotine is mostly harmless in the first place, then who cares even if it is addictive
--And regardless of any of that, nobody that starts by vaping is going to go to smoking

The whole thing is like going through the Looking Glass.
And the White Knight is talking backwards.

In fact the FDA, CDC and their partners in bed with them invented the "epidemic" out of a blank sheet of paper

 

[DC2]

But it ain't over, Oliver. So many people on the front lines battling this. It's pretty incredible.

So true Katmar.

Who would have expected to see this a few years ago...
American Enterprise Institute Hosts Discussion | Video | C-SPAN.org

A bunch of people in business attire from a public policy think tank supporting us.
Arguing for us, exposing the hypocrisy and the lies right there on C-SPAN.

We've been gaining momentum.
And I think we may very well win this thing.

The Legislative branch can take care of this thing if they so choose.
But if not, the Judicial branch can bring the hammer down.

We'll just have to see...

 

[DC2]

In fact the FDA, CDC and their partners in bed with them invented the "epidemic" out of a blank sheet of paper

Well, to be fair, that piece of paper wasn't exactly blank.
It had lots of numbers on it.

And those numbers were put through a torturous process of bending and squeezing...
Until they finally succumbed to the "greater good" as it were...

 

[MacTechVpr]

…
In conclusion... people are convinced that cigarettes and nicotine are one and the same... [which they're not.] The FDA needs to realize this, and talk to scientists that have done the studies. In all honesty, I doubt they will due to the fact that they're paid quite well to keep those two on equal terms.

I agree with your conclusion 100%!

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

...And the FDA's logic is perfect if you don't know the facts: "we'd rather smokers use nicotine alone, but we can't have adolescents falling prey to its effects" - in other words, it's perfectly acceptible for them to shut down the industry, because it will eventually figure out which products should remain due to the public health benefits to smokers and which ones won't appeal to adolescents.

They've shown no reason for us to believe this is remotely within their capabilities (or even in the realm of possibility), and the recent revelation that they pushed for a full flavor ban shows that they cannot understand why vaping works for people...

These are the brilliant observations all of us who claim to strive for reason should acknowledge. Bureaucrats in ivory towers are insulated from reality.

Good luck.

 

[VNeil]

These are the brilliant observations all of us who claim to strive for reason should acknowledge. Bureaucrats in ivory towers are insulated from reality.

Good luck.

They aren't insulated. They know exactly what they are doing. They are corrupt and money hungry.

 

[MacTechVpr]

They aren't insulated. They know exactly what they are doing. They are corrupt and money hungry.

Insulated by their own self-deception and so incapable. Yes, it is a choice we're all capable of. Good luck.

p.s. I'm trying to refrain myself from anger lately. Don't get me started.

 

[GBalkam]

Ya know what guys? Lets be totally real here. Fact.. I am a big guy, as in packing more than "a few extra pounds". Before I switched to vapes, I would get out of breath just getting into bed, sometimes to the point of wondering if i would suffocate if i fell asleep. Usually after 5 minutes, things would settle down though. Now, the fact is, if i am huffing an puffing from getting into bed, my lungs clearly are not getting 100% of the o2 they want. Meaning my heart has to beat a lot faster to compensate and get the O2 that is there, to where it needs to go. From a strictly realistic point of view, switching to vapes may have already saved my life! If switching to vapes gave me an extra year or two, to hell with the long term effects! I'm already ahead of the game! I just had a comical, but morbid thought... 2 doctors doing an autopsy... "It's a good thing this guy died from a heart attack, those vapes he was doing might have killed him in 30 or 40 years!"

 

[skoony]

There has been some, and it is proven that although it is addicting, it's not as addicting as when taken from a cigarette.

According to this link nicotine doesn't cause dependency to life time non-tobacco
users.

The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

The information in the link I posted is the single and only sole
reason for the hysteria around nicotine especially nicotine and
the chillin'.
When the little darlings graduate from high school and enter the real
world and it is discovered the first rational thing they do is drop vaping
to save money for other expenses (beer drinking) there will be a awful
lot of eggs on some peoples faces.

I got to thinking about the posts I have seen here and other forums
from people saying goodbye because they not only quit smoking but,
they have lowered their nic levels and are giving up vaping also.
Think how much this happens that we do not hear about. I have been
reading posts like this since the day I came here almost 3 years ago.
The powers that be know very well that nicotine is not the problem.
They have known this since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report on
Smoking said as much.

"page 41
The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine.
Social stimulation appears to play a major role in a young person’s early
and first experiments with smoking. No scientific evidence supports the
popular hypothesis that smoking among adolescents is an expression
rebellion against authority. Individual stress appears to be associated more
with fluctuations in the amount of smoking than with the prevalence of smoking.
The overwhelming evidence indicates that smoking-its beginning,
habituation, and occasional discontinuation-is to a very large extent psychologically
and socially determined.
Nicotine is rapidly changed in the body to relatively inactive substances
with low toxicity. The chronic toxicity of small doses of nicotine is low
in experimental animals. These two facts, when taken in conjunction with
the low mortality ratios of pipe and cigar smokers, indicate that the chronic
toxicity of nicotine in quantities absorbed from smoking and other methods
of tobacco use is very low and probably does not represent an important
health hazard."
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/nnbbmq.pdf


Note this part:
"The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine."
Related primarily to. The problem lies in the fact everyone and their brother
believes nicotine is what makes smoking cigarettes addictive. Smoking
cigarettes is what makes smoking addictive. It did before BT did anything
to the tobacco and still does now. This is why vaping is going to be destroyed.
When it becomes more than evident that tobacco use spirals downward as
vaping spirals upwards and people give vaping up in their 20's with no
problems the jig is up.

Regards
Mike

 

[VNeil]

According to this link nicotine doesn't cause dependency to life time non-tobacco
users.

The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

The information in the link I posted is the single and only sole
reason for the hysteria around nicotine especially nicotine and
the chillin'.
When the little darlings graduate from high school and enter the real
world and it is discovered the first rational thing they do is drop vaping
to save money for other expenses (beer drinking) there will be a awful
lot of eggs on some peoples faces.

I got to thinking about the posts I have seen here and other forums
from people saying goodbye because they not only quit smoking but,
they have lowered their nic levels and are giving up vaping also.
Think how much this happens that we do not hear about. I have been
reading posts like this since the day I came here almost 3 years ago.
The powers that be know very well that nicotine is not the problem.
They have known this since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report on
Smoking said as much.

"page 41
The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine.
Social stimulation appears to play a major role in a young person’s early
and first experiments with smoking. No scientific evidence supports the
popular hypothesis that smoking among adolescents is an expression
rebellion against authority. Individual stress appears to be associated more
with fluctuations in the amount of smoking than with the prevalence of smoking.
The overwhelming evidence indicates that smoking-its beginning,
habituation, and occasional discontinuation-is to a very large extent psychologically
and socially determined.
Nicotine is rapidly changed in the body to relatively inactive substances
with low toxicity. The chronic toxicity of small doses of nicotine is low
in experimental animals. These two facts, when taken in conjunction with
the low mortality ratios of pipe and cigar smokers, indicate that the chronic
toxicity of nicotine in quantities absorbed from smoking and other methods
of tobacco use is very low and probably does not represent an important
health hazard."
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/nnbbmq.pdf


Note this part:
"The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine."
Related primarily to. The problem lies in the fact everyone and their brother
believes nicotine is what makes smoking cigarettes addictive. Smoking
cigarettes is what makes smoking addictive. It did before BT did anything
to the tobacco and still does now. This is why vaping is going to be destroyed.
When it becomes more than evident that tobacco use spirals downward as
vaping spirals upwards and people give vaping up in their 20's with no
problems the jig is up.

Regards
Mike

My guess is that the lack of addiction will never be reported. Just like the media is burying the FDA shutdown of a $4 billion industry.

 

[MacTechVpr]

According to this link nicotine doesn't cause dependency to life time non-tobacco
users.

The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

The information in the link I posted is the single and only sole
reason for the hysteria around nicotine especially nicotine and
the chillin'.
When the little darlings graduate from high school and enter the real
world and it is discovered the first rational thing they do is drop vaping
to save money for other expenses (beer drinking) there will be a awful
lot of eggs on some peoples faces.

I got to thinking about the posts I have seen here and other forums
from people saying goodbye because they not only quit smoking but,
they have lowered their nic levels and are giving up vaping also.
Think how much this happens that we do not hear about. I have been
reading posts like this since the day I came here almost 3 years ago.
The powers that be know very well that nicotine is not the problem.
They have known this since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report on
Smoking said as much.

"page 41
The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine.
Social stimulation appears to play a major role in a young person’s early
and first experiments with smoking. No scientific evidence supports the
popular hypothesis that smoking among adolescents is an expression
rebellion against authority. Individual stress appears to be associated more
with fluctuations in the amount of smoking than with the prevalence of smoking.
The overwhelming evidence indicates that smoking-its beginning,
habituation, and occasional discontinuation-is to a very large extent psychologically
and socially determined.
Nicotine is rapidly changed in the body to relatively inactive substances
with low toxicity. The chronic toxicity of small doses of nicotine is low
in experimental animals. These two facts, when taken in conjunction with
the low mortality ratios of pipe and cigar smokers, indicate that the chronic
toxicity of nicotine in quantities absorbed from smoking and other methods
of tobacco use is very low and probably does not represent an important
health hazard."
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/nnbbmq.pdf


Note this part:
"The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine."
Related primarily to. The problem lies in the fact everyone and their brother
believes nicotine is what makes smoking cigarettes addictive. Smoking
cigarettes is what makes smoking addictive. It did before BT did anything
to the tobacco and still does now. This is why vaping is going to be destroyed.
When it becomes more than evident that tobacco use spirals downward as
vaping spirals upwards and people give vaping up in their 20's with no
problems the jig is up.

Regards
Mike

Couldn't get into this with Neil yesterday, no time (not today either). But I did want to acknowledge you [first] posted this in a reply to me last Nov. Right as I made the decision to rejoin the political fight alongside helping new vapers. Thank you. Definitely enlightening. I can't believe 6+ months have passed and that the deeming has come down as treacherously articulated by the FDA as I had dreaded.

As for addiction, yes I do believe a very minor few of us are organically genetically predisposed. Overall practically all of us are convinced we are by the constant stream of false rhetoric manipulating our perception of tobacco. I for one, believed. Never thought any alternative would help much but perhaps to help reduce my intake somewhat. Yet I quit after 47 years and 8 failed attempts in two days vaping.

FDA is stuck between a rock and a hard place of their own making. Nicotine is not a drug. They must convince us of its equivalency to a dangerous narcotic to justify their budget and existence. To do so they must lie. So NO MORE social engineering at our expense!

We must cut them off at the knees and extract vaping from tobacco legislation. The only dependency that is credibly worse than tobacco itself is our addiction to their false paradigm which serves to preserve their bloated redundant incumbency.

Good luck.