Oh my Lord! Flavors banned in San Francisco !

[zoiDman]

While I agree with everything said here, we have to be realistic. We are a very small community. No voter is going to take the time to study up on this issue. No politician wants the "you hate the children" card played against them.
In a society that actively promotes certain other substances and does not care a wit about the children while doing so, do you really expect logic and fairness?

To me, where the Fundamental Problems lies is Not the FUD Based, Non-Scientific, Half Truth, Big Money, Propaganda Campaigns that is being waged against e-Cigarettes.

That was to be Expected from someone like BP. Who's #1 Goal is to Protect and Ensure continual Profits. That's what Corporations do.

Or the average Media Outlet that couldn't Care Less about anything but getting More Clicks so they can Reap More from Advertising Slots.

And it wasn't from Do Gooder Control Freaks Groups who know what is Best for Others. Or even the Self-Serving Narcissistic Elected Officials who will say or do Anything as long as it Enhances their base. And is aligned with their Financial Overload's wishes.

No, all that was Expected in this Hosed Up World we live in.

What was so Egregious, even by Today's Low Bar Standards, is when a State (and Federal) Health Department engages in all of the Above. Because they are Supposed to be Unbiased Higher Authority. And their Policies hold Public Health for the Population above All Else.

When We Can't Trust that a State or Federal Public Health Agency is Placing the Well Being of the Population over the Well Being of Taxes or Corporate Profits or Political Elections, we No Longer have Public Health Agencies. And the Public has No One to turn to for Information that hasn't be Filtered thru an Agenda Based Lens.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is a pretty good Article outlining what occurred in SF.

Bans on E-Cigarette Flavors Can't Be Justified by the 'Wildfire Spread' of Adolescent Vaping, Which Seems to Be Declining

TL/DR: "... The implication is that banning those flavors could be deadly to smokers who would otherwise switch. Anyone who ignores that prospect is only pretending to care about public health."

 

[Adventurevapes]

Pssht isn't Cali supposed to be open minded or something?

 

[Rossum]

When We Can't Trust that a State or Federal Public Health Agency is Placing the Well Being of the Population over the Well Being of Taxes or Corporate Profits or Political Elections

But, but, they're from the Government, and they're here to help!

 

[zoiDman]

But, but, they're from the Government, and they're here to help!

From the former a Governor of California...



My... How things have Changed.

 

[stols001]

Pssht isn't Cali supposed to be open minded or something?

Their minds ARE open. WIDE open. Nothing to see just an empty cavity etc.

LOL, they are also the kind of opened minded that are very OPEN to what THEY want, and pretty silent on any other front.

I hate that goofy feelgood "I'm so open to progressive good ideas."
"Cool I want a vape and a gun."
"Head directly to jail, do not pass go... " etc.

Anna

 

[untar]

I thought the 9 most terrifying words were
"is that your mother in law running at us?"

 

[bhayes]

San Francisco, California, Proposition E, Ban on the Sale of Flavored Tobacco (June 2018) - Ballotpedia

I am going to take more time to study this, I hope everyone else commenting has read it and can tell us what this means for the vaping community down the road!!

 

[chellie]

San Francisco, California, Proposition E, Ban on the Sale of Flavored Tobacco (June 2018) - Ballotpedia

I am going to take more time to study this, I hope everyone else commenting has read it and can tell us what this means for the vaping community down the road!!

Wow -- just wow!

 

[ScottP]

San Francisco, California, Proposition E, Ban on the Sale of Flavored Tobacco (June 2018) - Ballotpedia

I am going to take more time to study this, I hope everyone else commenting has read it and can tell us what this means for the vaping community down the road!!

What does is mean for the future of of the vaping community down the road? Well, if you live in a city or state full of sheeple that prefer to be herded and protected by their shepherd masters in government, then the future is probably pretty bleak. If you live in a city or state full of freedom loving, free thinking Americans, then there probably isn't as much to worry about.

 

[Vaperer]

Yes, because the FDA has deemed it so.

Mr Rossum Couldn't there be some litigation to reverse that ruling with a jury or a appellate court? First thing you need is Damages then you need a lawyer to get a class-action but against who? to this is tricky.
But I'm not a lawyer. I just don't see where a piece of plastic glass can be deemed a tobacco product it's just insane. This is all because the stupid kids. I think the kids got the feds looking up our skirt. I don't know what to think anymore. I guess this is going to get where I got to quit.Damn!
Just thinking out loud

 

[stols001]

Ya know, PA is pretty free thinking (or was) I mean it's a commonwealth. They won't (or didn't IDK if they do now) release stuff like DUIs to other states even. I think it's the only reason when the husband got his fourth or fifth in MD (it was a hit and run, well like 3 and then um drove through a barricade of cop cars, LOL . Everyone was going, "Yeah, you might be doing some time for THIS one," when he sobered up, and I think he would have.... Only they didn't release any records to Maryland.

I wouldn't mind moving to PA but the tax code (on everything) is a bit nuts. You can have a fair amount of freedom while still "regressing" in other areas... BUT everything's a tradeoff.

Also, it can be really hard to move. If I lived in SF, well I'd use Traveler's aid to be homeless somewhere else because that would be my PREFERENCE. But it's not always so easy to say "move."

But the more states/municipalities like this BEHAVE like this, it just encourages other states. It is my thought we will be seeing more flavor bans, and really, it makes sense .If SF doesn't want VAPING to be fun, I doubt they want smoking to be enjoyable either.

Sadly, I really think unless there is a drastic change somewhere, we may eventually see prohibition (possibly even in my life time).

Like alcohol, it isn't going to work, but there will be much suffering and criminalization before all that happens and etc. Looking back at history (politicians rarely do, though) it's going to get ugly for a while.

Just my thoughts as always.

Anna

 

[Rossum]

Mr Rossum Couldn't there be some litigation to reverse that ruling with a jury or a appellate court? First thing you need is Damages then you need a lawyer to get a class-action but against who? to this is tricky.
But I'm not a lawyer. I just don't see where a piece of plastic glass can be deemed a tobacco product it's just insane. This is all because the stupid kids. I think the kids got the feds looking up our skirt. I don't know what to think anymore. I guess this is going to get where I got to quit.Damn!
Just thinking out loud

Google: 'Nicopure vs. FDA'

Nicopure got shot down in the first round. They have filed an appeal, but honestly, I think their chances of prevailing are not that great.

 

[Vaperer]

I'm very worried that I might have to quit vaping. That's where this is all going to wind up. They're going to end up taxing the hell out of this. Or prohibition. The future ain't looking so great for us. You might say I'm a nervous kind of guy. Remember when you had one cigarette left in your pack? Yep!just like that feeling

 

[Vaperer]

Google: 'Nicopure vs. FDA'

Nicopure got shot down in the first round. They have filed an appeal, but honestly, I think their chances of prevailing are not that great.

Agreed judges hardly ever rule against each other. The appeals process has to be something blatant that was missed.

 

[Rossum]

I'm very worried that I might have to quit vaping. That's where this is all going to wind up. They're going to end up taxing the hell out of this. Or prohibition. The future ain't looking so great for us. You might say I'm a nervous kind of guy. Remember when you had one cigarette left in your pack? Yep!just like that feeling

I used to get that feeling when I opened the last pack from the carton. But being down to just one cigarette in the last pack? I can't remember when I ever let that happen!

Within two weeks of switching from smoking to vaping (without really intending to do that!), I decided there was no way I would ever let anyone take this miracle away from me and make me go back to smoking. So I spent two years stockpiling and finished in 2016. Total cost of stockpiled consumables: What I would have spent on cigarettes in 3 to 6 months, and it's enough last me well into my 90s (I'm not quite 60 yet).

 

[chellie]

What does is mean for the future of of the vaping community down the road? Well, if you live in a city or state full of sheeple that prefer to be herded and protected by their shepherd masters in government, then the future is probably pretty bleak. If you live in a city or state full of freedom loving, free thinking Americans, then there probably isn't as much to worry about.

My initial thoughts are not just with the vaping community but with society in general and the ramifications this can have in other areas. So because in these folks minds flavors promote smoking or vaping for children - adults are facing the backlash. Well, then why not ban alcoholic flavored water as well. After all, kids drink water and if it's flavored they may then think that alcohol is great. Alcoholic screwdrivers? Banned --- Can't have kids associating OJ with alcohol - might taint their little growing minds. While we are at it, let's ban gambling, too, because little kiddos play games (or say something like I bet you can - I bet you can't) and somehow by playing a game with their friends some (narrow-minded folks) may then twist it to say that in kids minds that gambling is OK --which it is if you are of legal age so we need to ban that. I can just go on and on.

But wait - gambling brings in lots of $$$'s for some. Now didn't marijuana dispensaries open in SFO earlier this year? How about them selling Golden State Banana weed? True, it is on the menu at some of their dispensaries. That's OK. Won't little kiddos now think getting high is great each time they look at a banana in the supermarket? And isn't that illegal for underage kids. Oh --- I forgot they (gambling and dispensaries) pay lots of $$'s so there are different rules depending on who is financially benefitting.

Of course, I am being sarcastic. In my opinion, the truth really is because it is all about $$$$$'s and where they can get the most of it and not anyone's health. I'd like to see (and I just might investigate) an expose' to see just how many lawmakers in San Fran have relatives or trusts or other interests in some of these other profit-making endeavors that are not banned.

 

[stols001]

The only way to remove the "nervous" feeling (JMO as always) is to learn to use RTAs and have enough on hand, and learn to DIY and buy enough nic for what you'd consider your useful lifetime. Flavors will be workable I really think although it may wind up requiring some flavor modification process.

I did that all within my first year, because I felt exactly the same .I joined right before the FIRST deeming was going to go into effect, and I was 100% convinced (since my first little "this is how you explain vaping and vape everywhere," card) vaping was going to head south at some point.

I hate to say it (and I don't necessarily disagree with the card's sentiments, I mean I'm sure it got more people vaping etc.) but vaping's SUCCESS is its own demise. And, I mean, I CRINGED seeing people vape on planes I was like, "You don't think you'll get away with THAT for long do you?" (Even though I'll admit, I vaped on a plane myself, once. It went badly.)

Nic can be frozen and kept really rather stable, for an indefinite period. While I would have loved to acquire my nic more slowly and etc., well, I figure given inflation even IF DIY remains a "thing" and to be fair, I think it's a smaller market share, so it may stick around longer than expected, the worst outcome is that I've saved myself some inflation costs.

But, that was what it took for me to feel safety in vaping and I built my skills fairly quickly, which ALSO helped keep my mind off smoking.

Honestly, no one knows what will happen and it's driving me APE all these other things being "decriminalized" while vaping is squeezed tight and it's nutty. Maybe the US has some hidden number of "items" that have to be demonized, and the removal of one caused then to go,
"But we have drug war money oh no what will we do?"

However, DIY, on it's own merits is a great route to go. So if you are getting an edgy feeling (I remember that feeling with cigarettes, too) I'd say TRY DIY to determine if it's something you can do. If you CAN and you enjoy it, stocking up on Nic is a reasonable strategy (in my opinion obviously.

I hate feeling anxious like that and I'm no huge fan of flavorless vaping but I do think some flavorings will remain available and etc.

I was super relieved when I bought my last liter of Nic, I just felt ready for the madness. And, it will be madness and if NOTHING else, if DIY and some types of vaping aren't banned completely well, they're going to be taxed like no one's business.

Vaping's biggest FLAW is that it WORKS. I don't fault a single vaper for "not vaping right" either, the way I see it the size of the clouds makes little difference. Vaping (as it is today), well it's biggest flaw is that it WORKS. For teens, for ex-smokers, for EVERYTHING.

I kind of feel blessed to have started WHEN I did and able to stockpile. Not ever smoker is going to be so fortunate.

Anna

 

[nikosm]

Haven't posted anything on here in a long time, but hearing about the imminent flavor ban in SF got me pretty ...... off, and I don't even really care much for flavored vape (though I am starting to like mint JUUL). Yes, unfortunately, many other "progressive" cities and states will try to emulate this, as they have pretty much every other anti-smoking/vaping regulation and tax. So far, where I live (Virginia), its not likely to happen anytime soon, but could change with the political climate here as it is becoming much more of a blue state.
Getting back to the SF ban, I was wondering if that city has any authority to do this, since I thought only the FDA can regulate tobacco products/flavorings. Also, all e-juice contains some flavoring, otherwise it would just be nicotine/PG/ and water, so this seems to be a backdoor to a complete ban on e-cigs, which I guess is what they have wanted all along.

 

[stols001]

IDK but I have to be honest, I (overall) like the idea of states and municipalities being able to enact certain things.

The only way to find out if it's "legal" or not would be a challenge to the vote. And, to be QUITE honest, I'd say CA would be the last place to do that, most of their judges are activists, not JUDGES.

In Tucson, the enacted a rule that NON lawyers could be judges in certain courts. A ton of them were the winners in the race. While it was MILDLY amusing to watch my son's "judge" try to act like a judge, (LOL, she mixed up her case files, and kept calling the dude BEFORE him "Mr. Myson'sname,) it was also a bit TERRIFYING as the dude before him had a much worse SENTENCE to be determined. After watching the lawyers try to politely correct (several times) her "aide" whispered, "I need to go off record for a moment" and GRABBED the file out of her hands and whispered, "He's next."

I don't have a lot of faith in the Judiciary in some places. Although I will say that my sis works for a very Conservative Federal Judge and she's a total liberal, but they seem to manage fine.

I don't know that the appointment of judges should be so political, they wield a TON of power. There should be term limits if you ask me (for EVERY politician, including judges.)

And, you should have a law degree to be a lawyer, but Tucson's a bit insane. I think I don't have TOO much opposition on this one (hopefully).

But yes, Tucsonians voted on their associate degree judges, and in many cases chose BADLY. I did a bit of fuming against the fact that I had a master's degree and the blithering idiot in front of me had an AA degree and MY tax dollars were um, paying her 90K salary, but I still think that townships and states should have SOME rights.

Anna