Oh the Anti's, the ANTI'S!!!
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I think what Kent said was dead-on. I know her type; they always want to police what others are doing, whether it's any of their business or not.
She's the type that would have no qualms about making a ridiculous fuss about your vapeing if it would put a stop to you doing it.
Stay away.
She's the type that would have no qualms about making a ridiculous fuss about your vapeing if it would put a stop to you doing it.
Stay away.
My favorite speaker on reducing stress (Roger Mellot) teaches that you can't change people who have their 'nose on the screen' so to keep from stressing yourself out, you just let them win sooner. In other words, if she makes any more comments, just smile and agree with her. Then forget her and move on. Don't know about you but this works for me, usually. If I try to talk/reason with this kind of person, I just get all upset and give my energy away (I call it engaging with the devil).
I knew I liked you the whole time.
We have a disease in America, and it is thinking that the socialist Europeans are smarter and better.
And yeah, I'm looking at you San Francisco and New York, and to some extent Los Angeles.
They aren't smarter though, unless of course socialism is smarter and better.
And it damn sure isn't, and never has been, and never can be.
Man, I'm gonna wish I hadn't said that.
But see if I care.
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And yeah, I would tell her to shove her apology.
Because that's how I roll.
Edit.......
Okay, I've decided the above response would be reserved for a situation beyond hope.
But if there was still hope, I would probably say this to her...
"Your ignorance disgusts me".
That would probably crush her soul.
And you have to be crushed before you can become whole again.
Because that's how I roll.
Edit.......
Okay, I've decided the above response would be reserved for a situation beyond hope.
But if there was still hope, I would probably say this to her...
"Your ignorance disgusts me".
That would probably crush her soul.
And you have to be crushed before you can become whole again.
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Don't reply yet Kent, I'm still editing my posts!
Lol. I figured so I just did a screen grab of the 'I knew I liked you the whole time.' LOL Sent you a boring history lesson via PM that pretty much validates your views.
Thanks for the engaging conversation Kent. It's been fun. I'll let the OP have the thread back now, enough of my tirade!
Drat! Im late to the party again
.
Much of what has appeared in this thread has been a lot of advice and invective, but when you look at what the woman actually said, you see things that allow you to understand the thought behind what she is saying and what that thought really means. There is more to it than meets the eye.
Right now, we are living in a country where the anti-smoking movement has borrowed a few pages from some very big books of bigotry and in a lot of ways, the resultant arguments are something that would be perfectly recognizable in the mouth of an inveterate anti-semite, or of someone who was deeply racist with respect to (write in your minority of choice).
Her: ...I mean, you think it will save lives, I call that a bunch of bull..... Especially if people find hey, this cigarette gets me the drug better and faster than X. The answer isn't a more purer form of nicotine, that's like saying "yes the way to combat ...... addiction is by using more pure ......" or of any other drug for that matter. I would say major problem is the nicotine, because that is what causes people to smoke the things despite their cancer causing agents, because you don't care. You think people will use other ....? and be healthier?
The argument that nicotine by itself is not so bad doesnt work on anti-smokers because to them, smoking is not just an addiction that smells bad: smoking is a moral disease with physical consequences. As a smoker, youre the equivalent of an opioid-user, someone so debased by his addiction that he will casually commit any ugly act to get his fix. He/She is too morally sick to do the only right thing and give up smoking right now, by going cold-turkey.
People with this attitude in effect demand and expect you to make any sacrifice to join them on their high moral plain and if you choose not to, there is something wrong with you.
I call that pie in the sky kind of optimism not based anywhere even closed to reality. I'm not saying that we can control what people do, but I find cigarette smoking in general abhorrent and incredibly selfish...much like any addiction, because it disables your ability to think rationally. This is probably incredibly offensive, but I can't help it. and no i don't want to discuss it further, and I probably won't want to talk about it tomorrow either. and I don't want an apology, or to try to understand your side, because as far as I'm concerned there isn't one.
This is another example of the smokers are junkies argument: she says that addictions disable your ability to think rationally. By thinking rationally she means that you cannot see the ironclad truth of her arguments and the absolute need of becoming exactly like her--in effect, the equivalent of being black in the fifties and refusing to become white, Christian and have the right accentfor only the small price of undergoing nicotine withdrawal.
With this kind of thinking in place, any counterargument you raise is wrong not because of cracks in your reasoning but because it came from you.
You the smoker are also selfish because the movement and the doctors behind it have made some really fantastic medical claims based on epidemiological studies that the layman does not understand, cannot check and cannot challenge. In the anti-smokers worldview, backed up by an absolute ignorance of the involved statistics, secondhand smoke is as deadly as nerve-gas and any exposure to any amount of cigarette smoke for any length of time is potentially lethal and the fact that both direct smoking *and* second-hand smoke can take three or more decades to kill a smoker is not seen as a refutation of the statistical argument. In fact, cigarettes are so deadly that its a wonder there are any Americans left alive at all!
In this golden worldview, anyone who smokes within line-of-sight of anyone else is not deciding on a shorter (but to him/her a possibly richer) life, but willfully and knowingly working to commit manslaughter.
To really understand what the anti-smoking movement means, you have to understand that suggestions for what someone should say are useless because saying things doesnt matter. Anti-smokers are ruled by an energetic unreason that is too good to give up for abstruse questions of ethical philosophy, social justice or simple courtesy. Being an anti-smoker is too attractive and too seductive; producing a situation where being part of an eighty-percent majority means privilege: it means you can be the biggest short-bus ..... on the planet and you will still always be right in one thing because everyone agrees with you. It means you can make smokers stand in the rain and then tell them to their faces what you think about them and their habit using language that would get you punched out or ostracized if the topic were race, religion, sex or sexual orientation and the smoker cant do a thing about it.
Youre not going to fight that sort of thing with words because words wont work. If they did, the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties would have accomplished all its goals not with years of blood and pain but after only a few hours of debate.
Much of what has appeared in this thread has been a lot of advice and invective, but when you look at what the woman actually said, you see things that allow you to understand the thought behind what she is saying and what that thought really means. There is more to it than meets the eye.
Right now, we are living in a country where the anti-smoking movement has borrowed a few pages from some very big books of bigotry and in a lot of ways, the resultant arguments are something that would be perfectly recognizable in the mouth of an inveterate anti-semite, or of someone who was deeply racist with respect to (write in your minority of choice).
Her: ...I mean, you think it will save lives, I call that a bunch of bull..... Especially if people find hey, this cigarette gets me the drug better and faster than X. The answer isn't a more purer form of nicotine, that's like saying "yes the way to combat ...... addiction is by using more pure ......" or of any other drug for that matter. I would say major problem is the nicotine, because that is what causes people to smoke the things despite their cancer causing agents, because you don't care. You think people will use other ....? and be healthier?
The argument that nicotine by itself is not so bad doesnt work on anti-smokers because to them, smoking is not just an addiction that smells bad: smoking is a moral disease with physical consequences. As a smoker, youre the equivalent of an opioid-user, someone so debased by his addiction that he will casually commit any ugly act to get his fix. He/She is too morally sick to do the only right thing and give up smoking right now, by going cold-turkey.
People with this attitude in effect demand and expect you to make any sacrifice to join them on their high moral plain and if you choose not to, there is something wrong with you.
I call that pie in the sky kind of optimism not based anywhere even closed to reality. I'm not saying that we can control what people do, but I find cigarette smoking in general abhorrent and incredibly selfish...much like any addiction, because it disables your ability to think rationally. This is probably incredibly offensive, but I can't help it. and no i don't want to discuss it further, and I probably won't want to talk about it tomorrow either. and I don't want an apology, or to try to understand your side, because as far as I'm concerned there isn't one.
This is another example of the smokers are junkies argument: she says that addictions disable your ability to think rationally. By thinking rationally she means that you cannot see the ironclad truth of her arguments and the absolute need of becoming exactly like her--in effect, the equivalent of being black in the fifties and refusing to become white, Christian and have the right accentfor only the small price of undergoing nicotine withdrawal.
With this kind of thinking in place, any counterargument you raise is wrong not because of cracks in your reasoning but because it came from you.
You the smoker are also selfish because the movement and the doctors behind it have made some really fantastic medical claims based on epidemiological studies that the layman does not understand, cannot check and cannot challenge. In the anti-smokers worldview, backed up by an absolute ignorance of the involved statistics, secondhand smoke is as deadly as nerve-gas and any exposure to any amount of cigarette smoke for any length of time is potentially lethal and the fact that both direct smoking *and* second-hand smoke can take three or more decades to kill a smoker is not seen as a refutation of the statistical argument. In fact, cigarettes are so deadly that its a wonder there are any Americans left alive at all!
In this golden worldview, anyone who smokes within line-of-sight of anyone else is not deciding on a shorter (but to him/her a possibly richer) life, but willfully and knowingly working to commit manslaughter.
To really understand what the anti-smoking movement means, you have to understand that suggestions for what someone should say are useless because saying things doesnt matter. Anti-smokers are ruled by an energetic unreason that is too good to give up for abstruse questions of ethical philosophy, social justice or simple courtesy. Being an anti-smoker is too attractive and too seductive; producing a situation where being part of an eighty-percent majority means privilege: it means you can be the biggest short-bus ..... on the planet and you will still always be right in one thing because everyone agrees with you. It means you can make smokers stand in the rain and then tell them to their faces what you think about them and their habit using language that would get you punched out or ostracized if the topic were race, religion, sex or sexual orientation and the smoker cant do a thing about it.
Youre not going to fight that sort of thing with words because words wont work. If they did, the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties would have accomplished all its goals not with years of blood and pain but after only a few hours of debate.
I think you are largely correct jantymisfit. I think the majority here knows that this is not something you can combat with words. I think much of the advice and invection were gut reactions of people who have all run across this type of sanctioned hatred before.
When I came to the US over 20 years ago, I was stunned to find that (at least in the Bible belt) I was actually considered to NOT be a Christian. I was dumbfounded as I had been raised in the Anglican Church and had always presumed I was a Christian. When someone actually told me I was going to hell, I had to ask how that made them feel and would they pray for me to "see the light." They basically responded that was not for them to judge (oh really, certainly felt like I was being judged) and that they would not pray for me as I had to ask for God's forgiveness and all would be forgiven, enabling my entry into Heaven. Forgiveness? I am not about to act like a murderer who has "found God" at the eleventh hour.
Hatred based on moral superiority has always evoked a visceral, gut-level response from me. We are all human, and as such, equals as far as I'm concerned. I just have a hard time understanding people who live in glass houses. Way too sterile and insulated for my tastes.
When I came to the US over 20 years ago, I was stunned to find that (at least in the Bible belt) I was actually considered to NOT be a Christian. I was dumbfounded as I had been raised in the Anglican Church and had always presumed I was a Christian. When someone actually told me I was going to hell, I had to ask how that made them feel and would they pray for me to "see the light." They basically responded that was not for them to judge (oh really, certainly felt like I was being judged) and that they would not pray for me as I had to ask for God's forgiveness and all would be forgiven, enabling my entry into Heaven. Forgiveness? I am not about to act like a murderer who has "found God" at the eleventh hour.
Hatred based on moral superiority has always evoked a visceral, gut-level response from me. We are all human, and as such, equals as far as I'm concerned. I just have a hard time understanding people who live in glass houses. Way too sterile and insulated for my tastes.
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