On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations

[Rossum]

States have control over doing business in their state, it is about like importing from other countries. Each state is like a mini country in a way, all belongs to USA, but they have their freedoms to make laws for their own state. It can be very loose laws or very stringent. We are just seeing the beginning of all this sadly.

Except MBV isn't doing business in CA. They are doing business in AZ. Sure, CA can make whatever laws it wants, but those laws do not apply outside their borders. The legal question here is when/where does ownership of the product change hands from the vendor to the customer. On a pre-paid order, it's pretty clear that happens at the time the product is paid for and shipped.

I've had my own interaction with with Cali. Their board of equalization hounded me for the better part of a year demanding I turn over all my records of sales to Cali residents so they could collect use tax from them. I kept round-filing their letters. When they eventually called me, I told them: Show me something in PA or federal law that requires me to do this, otherwise bugger off. That was several years ago. I never heard back from them.

 

[Bonskibon]

I noticed on another site where I order stuff from that they require CA. resident to have proof of ID during checkout. Not sure what that entails, but perhaps sites are trying to get a system setup to check for age.

 

[bnrkwest]

Except MBV isn't doing business in CA. They are doing business in AZ. Sure, CA can make whatever laws it wants, but those laws do not apply outside their borders. The legal question here is when/where does ownership of the product change hands from the vendor to the customer. On a pre-paid order, it's pretty clear that happens at the time the product is paid for and shipped.

I've had my own interaction with with Cali. Their board of equalization hounded me for the better part of a year demanding I turn over all my records of sales to Cali residents so they could collect use tax from them. I kept round-filing their letters. When they eventually called me, I told them: Show me something in PA or federal law that requires me to do this, otherwise bugger off. That was several years ago. I never heard back from them.

Well they have a customer base in CA so yes they do biz in CA and must follow CA rules to sell in CA. That is the rub. Their base of operations is AZ but they sell outside of AZ borders. Yes some states can demand sales tax in their state when selling products in their state from another state, but you are so right, show me the laws demanding this. I just went thru a round myself with some online sales and taxes in my own state but everything I sold was out of state, so no tax. But I did have to show records to prove that. But when it comes to taxes someone is always looking for their share! LOL

 

[salemgold]

I noticed on another site where I order stuff from that they require CA. resident to have proof of ID during checkout. Not sure what that entails, but perhaps sites are trying to get a system setup to check for age.

What site is this that you speak of?

 

[Rossum]

Well they have a customer base in CA so yes they do biz in CA and must follow CA rules to sell in CA. That is the rub. Their base of operations is AZ but they sell outside of AZ borders.

No they don't. My contention is that the transaction takes place in AZ. It's legally no different than if a CA resident drove to AZ, bought some juice there, and brought it back to CA himself. Unless there's something in AZ or federal law that requires MVB to comply with CA law in such a circumstance, CA law is irrelevant in AZ.

 

[bnrkwest]

No they don't. My contention is that the transaction takes place in AZ. It's legally no different than if a CA resident drove to AZ, bought some juice there, and brought it back to CA himself. Unless there's something in AZ or federal law that requires MVB to comply with CA law in such a circumstance, CA law is irrelevant in AZ.

I see your point and yes doing online or mail order is generally exempt from taxes selling in one state to another state. But at some point a state could say if you sell to X state residents you must have a permit to do so and collect tax on all those sales. My hubby and I were discussing this and in a biz he used to be in and there was a store on the border of two states of big ticket items, people were not allowed to drive over the border and buy big ticket items for no tax, they had to tax the item regardless. These were 6 figure items, so it can be enforced and he witnessed first hand. He said he could see a time where to sell form one state to another the seller would have to be licensed in each state he sells in like they are in the home state and collect tax for each state. UGH I said, who would jump thru all those hoops! It would stifle inter state trade/biz.

 

[Bonskibon]

What site is this that you speak of?

yougotejuice.com Has a notice at the top of their website.

 

[mattiem]

Once all the states pass what Cali , Arkansas and I think Ill have, MBV and every e-liquid vendor will be out of business except for the residents in their state . Arkansas law didn't affect me because I make my own e-liquid but it still hurt a LOT of other folks

It seems MBV is keeping a close eye on what is happening and jumps on it very quickly. I remember reading that at least one person from Arkansas placed an order for hardware and the purchase was refused. Hopefully MBV has fixed there site to accept hardware orders since it is just the e-liquid that is supposed to be affected.

edited to clarify: No on-line purchases of e-liquid is in the Arkansas law. I am not sure about the Cali or Ill law.

 

[salemgold]

yougotejuice.com Has a notice at the top of their website.

Thanks. I was trying to help someone find a place that would ship juice to CA last night. I found many juice vendors that had a notice posted that they temporarily were not shipping to CA. Maybe they just want to get "their ducks in a row" before resuming shipments there.

 

[Bonskibon]

Thanks. I was trying to help someone find a place that would ship juice to CA last night. I found many juice vendors that had a notice posted that they temporarily were not shipping to CA. Maybe they just want to get "their ducks in a row" before resuming shipments there.

That's what I was thinking as well. Many sites don't have the systems in place for CA. residents.

 

[salemgold]

yougotejuice.com Has a notice at the top of their website.

Yep. Sure looks like they will require some form of ID be sent to them. Most likely a sign of things to come for everyone.

 

[bnrkwest]

I see your point and yes doing online or mail order is generally exempt from taxes selling in one state to another state. But at some point a state could say if you sell to X state residents you must have a permit to do so and collect tax on all those sales. My hubby and I were discussing this and in a biz he used to be in and there was a store on the border of two states of big ticket items, people were not allowed to drive over the border and buy big ticket items for no tax, they had to tax the item regardless. These were 6 figure items, so it can be enforced and he witnessed first hand. He said he could see a time where to sell form one state to another the seller would have to be licensed in each state he sells in like they are in the home state and collect tax for each state. UGH I said, who would jump thru all those hoops! It would stifle inter state trade/biz.

Here is some more info about corps and LLC and state laws, foreign and domestic (domestic means your home state, foreign is other state - Doing Business in Other States - Foreign Qualification

 

[mattiem]

I have ordered from a couple of places that seem to have a system up and running already and it seems they already know that I am on the downhill side of life. I guess old age does have its perks

 

[bnrkwest]

Yep. Sure looks like they will require some form of ID be sent to them. Most likely a sign of things to come for everyone.

Sad it is the beginning of all things coming down the pike. Stock up everyone!

 

[Rossum]

Once all the states pass what Cali , Arkansas and I think Ill have, MBV and every e-liquid vendor will be out of business except for the residents in their state . Arkansas law didn't affect me because I make my own e-liquid but it still hurt a LOT of other folks

Only because the vendors in other states have no spine. If I were in the juice business, my attitude would be the same as when Cali wanted my records: "Show me the PA or federal law that prevents me from selling to people who happen to live in AR, otherwise, bugger off." Now if AR wants to try to stop my shipments once they hit their state, yes, they can do that.

 

[bnrkwest]

Only because the vendors in other states have no spine. If I were in the juice business, my attitude would be the same as when Cali wanted my records: "Show me the PA or federal law that prevents me from selling to people who happen to live in AR, otherwise, bugger off." Now if AR wants to try to stop my shipments once they hit their state, yes, they can do that.

One thing PA has going for it is not really a state but a Commonwealth I lived there for 16 years

 

[salemgold]

Has everyone here seen this thread? If not, please take the time to read it. Congress had a screening the other day and it sounds like their reaction was very favorable for us. It was said that some may have even shed some tears when it was over.

Billion Lives Needs Help

 

[crxess]

I have ordered from a couple of places that seem to have a system up and running already and it seems they already know that I am on the downhill side of life. I guess old age does have its perks

That really isn't funny you know

 

[crxess]

Has everyone here seen this thread? If not, please take the time to read it. Congress had a screening the other day and it sounds like their reaction was very favorable for us. It was said that some may have even shed some tears when it was over.

Billion Lives Needs Help

Did you See the Slanderous Hallmark Channel - Home and Family Broadcast - with Dr JJ Demonizing e-cigarettes?
Probably the most horrific attack I have witnessed....next to Deeming Regs.

 

[cocacola31173]

Well I am officially done! Got 4 liters of 100 nic in my freezer...which after I calculated is enough for over 20 years for me! Didn't realize it would go that far until I actually did the math! LOL

Also got lots and lots of Kayfuns and several dependable mods. Everything else shouldn't be affected....least I hope not!