The study was done at U of C, San Francisco. What political types wants vaping wiped from the face of the earth? Connect the dots.
Outrageous and stupid anti-vaping research
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What kind of scientist says that there is no data to confirm it, but I believe it anyway? How is this science? If I was to do research on, say, carrot consumption and said that not only can I not prove it but I can't even show causation in any form, but it is my opinion that carrot sticks, which some people claim to munch on to curb a desire for a cigarette, are actually a gateway for children to start smoking, I'd bd laughed out of the room. And I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to find any juice with tobacco in it...
Dr. Carl V. Phillips tears the "study" to shreds: Stanton Glantz is such a liar that even the ACS balks: his latest ecig gateway “study” | Anti-THR Lies and related topics
The kind who has made a lucrative living from grant monies and whose cash cow would dry up when the majority of smokers quit without handing buckets of money to the big pharma companies.
And yet another !
quote"correlation does not equal causation."
I posted this in another thread & think that quote sums it up nicely
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Conclusion of New Glantz Study on Electronic Cigarettes is Junk Science
quote"correlation does not equal causation."
I posted this in another thread & think that quote sums it up nicely
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Conclusion of New Glantz Study on Electronic Cigarettes is Junk Science
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And Dr. Ross jumps in as politely as humanly possible too.
âE-cigarettes encourage teen smoking!â No, they donât in fact. | American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)
What kind of cash ..... says that there is no data to confirm it, but I believe it any way?
Just have to change the question slightly to get the answer.
As I see it, the clear gateway is the lies we (adults) tell each other, ourselves and then to kids. With kids, it is generally a one way street and coming from place of "authority." When that authority is learned to be false, it creates the gateway. Kids then want to experiment and/or rebel just to find out what they've been missing out on. I distinctly recall it working that way for me as a kid.
The ANTZ mass deception will work for some kids/parents. That can't be denied. But for the free thinking types, it'll be seen as deception and again as gateway to overcome that deception. To explore the taboo to see what the big deal really is. The "here is your brain on this. Any questions?" certainly leads to questions when you realize a thing or two about a thing or two in our society and who uses what and is deemed very successful in their field. Alcohol anyone? Doctors, lawyers, statesmen, all users. All deemed successful. And some saying one thing, but doing the other.
A reasonable discussion on this, that is actually for the kids, wouldn't think that lies will help, and instead would see that approach as exactly the opposite for reasonable guidance over the long term. For short term scare tactics designed to capture the minds of a select, and very naive, few, it can work. For a society that preaches freedom from around age 3 and up, coupled with "always best to tell the truth," then the deception tactic is precisely and undeniably the gateway at work.
The ANTZ mass deception will work for some kids/parents. That can't be denied. But for the free thinking types, it'll be seen as deception and again as gateway to overcome that deception. To explore the taboo to see what the big deal really is. The "here is your brain on this. Any questions?" certainly leads to questions when you realize a thing or two about a thing or two in our society and who uses what and is deemed very successful in their field. Alcohol anyone? Doctors, lawyers, statesmen, all users. All deemed successful. And some saying one thing, but doing the other.
A reasonable discussion on this, that is actually for the kids, wouldn't think that lies will help, and instead would see that approach as exactly the opposite for reasonable guidance over the long term. For short term scare tactics designed to capture the minds of a select, and very naive, few, it can work. For a society that preaches freedom from around age 3 and up, coupled with "always best to tell the truth," then the deception tactic is precisely and undeniably the gateway at work.
If you don't mind, I'm gonna link this again, because it's awesome!
âE-cigarettes encourage teen smoking!â No, they donât in fact. | American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)
âE-cigarettes encourage teen smoking!â No, they donât in fact. | American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)
This might be splitting hairs... but isn't the nicotine we vape derived from tobacco? To the unenlightened, it's the same. Ask 10 average people to name one ingredient in cigarettes and 10 will all say "nicotine". (With a scowl no doubt).
I just think the vaping community needs to focus on the carcinogens and not the tobacco side of it. Because technically... until an economical method of synthesizing tobacco is found, I am indeed dependent on the tobacco plant).
Unless this crap comes from some other place I'm not aware of.
The problem with this kind of information (in the eyes of an ANTZ) is that it originates from FOX. They never believe it. Instead, it only incites them further because of their hatred for FOX itself.
We can't win.
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Plenty of evidence? I have let four persons borrow my extra gear with juoce batys charger. Avg time is two weeks with my father in law keeping it forever.
None of them converted. ecf is not the real world and im still the only i know who vape
Vapers associate. None vapers don't.
It said not proven to curb cigs and it is true
Sent From Vape Heaven
So you haven't quit smoking, or reduced it? Perhaps you're just not a very good advocate.
I have proved that e-cigarettes help curb smoking. They have curbed my smoking, my wife's smoking, and both my daughter and son-in-law's smoking. They got my sister-in-law to quit smoking entirely. That alone, my friend, is proof.
But we're the slackers; we've only been vaping for a few months. EVERY person who has quit and EVERY person who has greatly cut back on smoking by using e-cigarettes is PROOF that e-cigarettes curb smoking.
Seems like you might be sending from Sartre's version of Vape Heaven? (Maybe more like Camus)
Vaping is not going to get every smoker to stop smoking any more than any other product is going to stop every smoker from doing so. I know a lot of people that have tried them and quickly gone back to cigarettes. I also know of at least a dozen or so personal friends that have either quit smoking or seriously reduced the amount they smoke. Of that entire group, I am the only one that visits ECF. I personally smoked 43 years, 2-3 PAD at the end. I wasn't even interested to try an e cig when my gf wanted to try them and had to be persuaded to do so.
The result is, I haven't had a single drag on a real cigarette in over 4 years. That is quitting. My gf, on the other hand, tried them and went back to smoking. However, over the last several months she is back on them and has replaced 90% of her cigarettes with e cig use.
I don't know what you're trying to say, but they're certainly as good, if not better, than anything the Pharma industry has provided.
Kodiak, e cigarettes are no more of a tobacco product than nicotine gum, patches, lozenges or the nicotrol inhaler. They will get defined as a tobacco product because the FDA can make that determination and legislatures are changing the definition of smoking every day by banning e cig "smoking", but that doesn't change the fact that smoking involves combustion and e cigs are not smoked.
KODIAK;12470696 said:This might be splitting hairs... but isn't the nicotine we vape derived from tobacco? To the unenlightened, it's the same. Ask 10 average people to name one ingredient in cigarettes and 10 will all say "nicotine". (With a scowl no doubt).
I just think the vaping community needs to focus on the carcinogens and not the tobacco side of it. Because technically... until an economical method of synthesizing tobacco is found, I am indeed dependent on the tobacco plant).
Unless this crap comes from some other place I'm not aware of.
The problem with this kind of information (in the eyes of an ANTZ) is that it originates from FOX. They never believe it. Instead, it only incites them further because of their hatred for FOX itself.
We can't win.
People who are making laws or reporting news and certainly those in research... do not get the luxury of being unenlightened. If nicotine is tobacco and will addict and kill kids, we better get a tighter grip on the gum and patches which are available freely here in the US.
If someone is going to discuss eCigs they have a responsibility to know something about it or they should get schooled by someone who does. We had a health department representative yesterday testify in a senate committee meeting that eCigs were hazardous to kids but when asked what the hazard was, she said "I don't know." When asked if she thought nicotine causes cancer she said, "I don't know."
That's ANTZ. They don't know anything about it, but they want it banned.
At least she was honest.
Its amazing how unenlightened many of the supposed health professionals really are.
At least she was honest.
True! And... well... there is nothing we could have said that would have made her look more foolish than her own admission of not knowing what she was bleating about
True! And... well... there is nothing we could have said that would have made her look more foolish than her own admission of not knowing what she was bleating about
She's been all over the local news for months
http://www.standard.ne t/stories/2013/10/04/too-many-concerns-exist-e-cigarettes
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