PA 40% Tax Increase!!!!!

[sunnyskyez]

Dont know if this is the right place to be. I placed an order at Halo for 2 -30ml btls, my bill was $40 then when I got to the final price my bill was over $65 with the 40% PA tax. I cancelled my order. vaping is now more expensive than analogs. Is everything going to be that high, or is it just the e-liquid? I have though of DIY but didnt know if that is going to be heavily taxed. Ive signed a bunch of online petitions but I guess none of that has worked. This upsets me so much, I dont have a craving for analogs anymore, I feel much better with more energy and I like not stinking. I guess after I finish my other bottles of juice I will go back to analogs. That is exactly what they want us to do. I dont mind paying taxes on stuff but these exceeds my brain capacity. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sofarsogood]

Dont know if this is the right place to be. I placed an order at Halo for 2 -30ml btls, my bill was $40 then when I got to the final price my bill was over $65 with the 40% PA tax. I cancelled my order. Vaping is now more expensive than analogs. Is everything going to be that high, or is it just the e-liquid? I have though of DIY but didnt know if that is going to be heavily taxed. Ive signed a bunch of online petitions but I guess none of that has worked. This upsets me so much, I dont have a craving for analogs anymore, I feel much better with more energy and I like not stinking. I guess after I finish my other bottles of juice I will go back to analogs. That is exactly what they want us to do. I dont mind paying taxes on stuff but these exceeds my brain capacity. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

$65 is about what I used to spend to smoke for a week. Typical liquid consumption for me today is 50 ml perr week which I make at home for a cost of 1.2 cents per ml, 60 cents per week. That difference in cost is 2 orders of magnitude. I usually mix a month supply which takes about 20 minutes. A bottle of nic that costs $50 will last me about 4 years. If I was still smoking 4 years of cigarettes would costs me $12,000. May be you want to consider mixing at home.

A 40% tax on a liter of 100 mg nic would raise it to $85, still chump change. You can pay that tax if necessary and your DIY liquid still costs basically nothing. A similar situation applies to hardware. So you pay 40% more for a mod that's going to last you several years. $15-20 extra dollars compared to smoking is pretty much irrelevent.

The purpose of this tax is to close the vape shops so they aren't there to help people stop smoking. Our governments are just as ruthless as any South American drug cartel.

 

[dobroeutro]

Not sure what the answer is but going back to analogs ain't it...

 

[traten]

I'm from Pennsylvania. Legislators want to control my life by taxing me into submission to their whim. Essentially, this is how governments operate before ultimately failing. They underestimate us.

A. I have a life-long nicotine addiction and I'm an old man. Vaping has saved me from its worst effects by reducing -possibly eliminating- the harmful particulates present in the combustion of tobacco.

B. My grandfather brewed bathtub beer during prohibition. Prohibition did not stand, but his knowledge of the brewing process did. I loved the man and will follow his example.

Here's my plan:

1. A lifetime gardener, I know how to grow things. I will grow tobacco. I ordered seeds on eBay from the US and a five-packet of various variety from Russia. I've tested germination and it's good. In the spring a portion of my small garden will be given over to tobacco cultivation. YouTube is filled with videos about growing, harvesting, curing, and fermentation. Google

2. I will learn how to extract nicotine from the leaves, follow existing recipes available here on ECF, using easily purchased products, and make my vape juices. My mods and coils allow for infinite usage without the need for digital components.

3. Failing that (and I'm not planning to fail), I'll just smoke the damn tobacco like I've been doing since age 13. Prohibition be damned. Freedom is my middle name.

This photo of my test seedlings growing inside under lights shows how vigorously tobacco grows. The full crop will be started inside in February and planted outside in April/May. It is step one in the process.

 

[Rossum]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Short term: Find a juice supplier within PA who only has to pay tax on wholesale costs and can therefore still sell you juice at reasonable prices. They do exist.

Long term: Learn to mix your own. It's dang near free to vape that way -- pennies per day.

Where in PA are you?

 

[Rossum]

From what Ive read, no matter where you buy it you have to send in a use tax on your state income tax if you havent paid the tax on it.

If you buy e-liquid from an in-state vendor, it's presumed that they have paid the (wholesale) tax on the ingredients. Since that tax is on their wholesale cost for ingredients, it's a lot less than if you pay 40% on the retail price of out-of-state purchases. So if you're mad at the state and want to minimize what they get from you, but aren't willing to risk cheating, buy from a vendor within PA and keep your receipts.

So I just bought some e-liquid on ebay and will have to print off my invoice and pay the use tax on my income tax in January.

You're supposed to pay it monthly, using a separate form.
http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandP...Documents/Other Tobacco Products/rev-1809.pdf

Good for you and all the vape preppers out there. Apparently I waited to long- oh boy!

Too long to avoid this tax? Yes. Too long to save a boatload of money over buying retail juice? No.

In addition, there's still the FDA regs that will (unless something drastic changes) shut down the virtually all of the juice industry by mid 2018.

 

[SteveS45]

For 40 years that was my brand and I spent a long time trying to find a liquid that tasted close enough to it. But now after 2 1/2 years plus smoke free it is the last thing I ever want my vape to taste like.

 

[vincom]

do what i did, diy juice

 

[Verb]

Since nic base can't be vaped as-is and can be used for other things (diy organic pesticide), if it is not purchased from a vape exclusive retailer it is not covered by the tax.

The tax is being applied contrary to PA law. Items must be taxed for what they are, not because of who sells it. I'm thinking more over hardware parts, VG, and loose batteries, than nic. Hopefully, the first lawsuit gets filed soon.

 

[sunnyskyez]

I guess if you have a cure for cancer and heart disease going back to cigarettes is fine then. Do you?

Sorry to say I dont. But I was ranting and where better to do it than here. Im not going back to analogs. I love feeling good.

 

[traten]

I try to keep life simple. I drink coffee for the caffeine, vape for the nicotine content, eat meat for protein. You get it. When it gets all complicated with tax and regulation I fall back on my wits and experience. This beautiful flower is that of Nicotiana Rustica, the original, wild form of tobacco. This one has been growing inside under lights this winter. Soon, its baby brothers and sisters will go into my garden. Think the law will step in?

 

[Rossum]

Also, the last thing the PA legislature should do is encourage even more vapers to mix their own e-liquids.

I'm curious why you say that, Bill?

The way I see it is: The more who learn how to DIY, the fewer will return to smoking when the FDA's hammer drops next year.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Many forum readers seem to have been preparing for a good while. DIY is probably the best way around the taxes on juices, but I see nicotine being controlled and heavily taxed. If juice has nicotine in it, it will be controlled and expensive. I think it will be hard to fight that in a court since nicotine is so addictive.

I, switched to DIY close to a year ago and stocked up on nicotine. It really isn't that hard. I equate it to making my own coils. Just took a little learning. I actually prefer it.

 

[sunnyskyez]

Thanks everyone, once I calmed down over the sticker shock, I realized I just cant give up what I really love and I love to vape!

From what Ive read, no matter where you buy it you have to send in a use tax on your state income tax if you havent paid the tax on it. If you get caught you could get a 5K fine and or prison time. I dont look good in orange. LOL.

Honestly for PA to be so NASTY did a fellow Vaper pee in one of the legislators Wheaties!?!?! You all should read this link about it, its quit frighting:
UPDATE: Pennsylvania Vapor Tax Is Worse Than We Thought - Vaping360

Thanks a bunch.
Peace out.

 

[sofarsogood]

Yes they will catch up with you. So I just bought some e-liquid on ebay and will have to print off my invoice and pay the use tax on my income tax in January.

My stockpile, which is in addition to what I use every day will be 10 mods, 10 rda's and 500,000 mg of nic. That will last at least 10 years and may be 20 if nic is immortal in the freezer and the mods go for 2 years each instead of 1 year. My cost for all that is $650 (see below). If I paid a 40% tax it goes up to $910. I spent $910 to smoke for 3.6 MONTHS!. I could spend $30,000 to smoke for 10 years or $60,000 to smoke for 20. Buy what you need, pay the damn tax, and tell them to go to hell for the next 10-20 years.

 

[Rossum]

This beautiful flower is that of Nicotiana Rustica, the original, wild form of tobacco. This one has been growing inside under lights this winter. Soon, its baby brothers and sisters will go into my garden. Think the law will step in?

No, because there's absolutely nothing illegal about growing your own tobacco.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The PA Vape Association, the Vapor Technology Association and PVA's lobbying firm Kinser & Associates (and probably lobbyists for RJ Reynolds and Altria) are now lobbying PA legislators to replace PA's 40% wholesale tax on all vapor products with a $.075/ml tax on e-liquid (to be paid when product is sold to consumer).

While that change would slash the tax on cigalike e-cigs by >95% (as the 40% tax on a $5 wholesale cigalike is now $2, and would decline to < $.075 since cigalikes contain <1ml of e-liquid), the change would increase the tax on most e-liquid (as the 40% tax on a $8 wholesale 60ml bottle of e-liquid is now $3.20, and would increase to $4.50 for 60ml bottles of e-liquid.

The tax change would be a wash for most PA vape shops (i.e. they'd still pay a similar tax) because
the 40% tax on hardware would disappear, because hardware comprises 20%-25% of vape shop sales, and because the new tax would be paid when sold to consumers (instead of when vape shops buy their products at wholesale price) .

Not sure why VTA and PVA's lobbyist urged PVA to endorse a vapor tax change that will greatly benefit Reynolds, Altria and other cigalike e-cig manufacturers, but that will provide little or no tax relief for PA vape shops, while increasing the tax on most e-liquid.

But I wouldn't be surprised if RJ Reynolds and/or Altria lobbyists and/or $$$ was involved.

The PA Constitution requires PA's budget to be approved by June 30 each year, but it often drags on into the first week of July.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Today, the PA House Finance Cmte approved the House bill (HB 1477) to tax nicotine containing e-liquid at $.05/ml on a largely partly line vote (R's Yea, D's Nea).
House Committee Roll Call Votes - 2017 RCS# 806
after the Dems tried to amend the bill to delay its passage
House Committee Roll Call Votes - 2017 RCS# 804

The bill is at
House Committee Roll Call Votes - 2017 RCS# 804

Yesterday, VTA's Jake Bucher and PVA Board Member Amelia Rivera testified to the House Finance Committee endorsing increasing the bill's $.05/ml tax to $.075/ml.

Amazingly, Jake Bucher's testimony included the following false statement: "the per milliliter tax at the point of sale a fairer method of taxation than a wholesale tax".

Seems like the VTA is lobbying for Reynolds and Altria (whose vapor tax burden will decline by >95% if the tax is changed to $.075/ml, while the tax burden on vape shops in PA will remain about the same) while claiming VTA represents small vapor companies and vape shops.

 

[r77r7r]

So, has anyone seen any PA "Floor Tax" forms yet? I'm concerned!

 

[r77r7r]

Sorry to say I dont. But I was ranting and where better to do it than here. Im not going back to analogs. I love feeling good.

I apologize that I reacted harshly to your OP.

I hope you can find your way around all this and I hope we can overcome all this horrific legislation.