Paramedic nephew says steam as bad as smoke?

[Berylanna]

My nephew is trying to quit smoking, and failing. I've given his Mom some e-cigs but he's scared of them for first-hand use. He says it is a slam-dunk in the medical community that SECOND-hand vapor is safe, but he says in all of his training, all the medical people are told that steam inhalation is a major cause of emphysema, and he says paramedics DO rescue people with severe damage from steam inhalation. The implication from the rescue training is that steam inhalation can be as bad as smoke inhalation.

So he's scared to get a kit, and won't recommend them to his friends that ALSO are desperately trying to quit smoking now that they have finished their training. AND if there is proof that steam is less harmful than smoke, he wants to talk to the trainers about changing their curriculum. (And I'll send him a kit, right away, if I find the study he wants to see!)

I have seen all kinds of data on ecigs and toxins, and some that compare a nicotine inhaler with pg to an ecig with pg, but we have a lot of people saying in public that "it's steam" (which is only true of the exhaled vapor if I understand correctly) so his medical buddies want to see peer-reviewed studies showing that ecigs are significantly safer than whatever causes emphysema from steam inhalation.

I feel sure that something besides our anecdotal tales of improvement must be available. Can we show glycerin inhalation all day every day or even PG is significantly safer LONG-TERM than smoking? I would think there would be a temperature threshold or something. Do people who live in steamy jungles all die of emphysema or only people who work in engine rooms?

I will look for the lung X-rays that someone published, and I'll send him the article about Carmona joining the njoy board, in the meantime.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[subversive]

I just googled "steam and emphysema," and the first page of results all were along the lines of steam treatments for helping emphysema.

 

[Talyon]

Isn't steam extremely hotter then Vape???.?

 

[spider362]

First, the vapor you see is not steam but the visible product of PG and VC when heated. Most common fog producers are the fog machines found in lounges, theatrical companies and the movie industry to product fog and special effects. These machines have been in use for years and I'm sure if there was any adverse effects from their use it would be widely known, and there is none that I know of.

Second, the exhaled vapor can not be any higher than your body temperature and that certainly isn't high enough to produce steam.

Just my worth of useless information.

 

[Dave L]

I'd say your nephew's opinion is just that - opinion. There may be something to it, but with the millions of folks who consider vaping a true miracle that weaned them off tobacco, I would think that if there was a major medical hazard we'd know it by now. I haven't seen a single report of someone getting COPD or asthma or cancer from vaping - only opinions and fearmongering from the ANTZ. In fact, there are plenty of reports of people with asthma getting improvement when they switched from smoking to vaping.

We're all sovereign integrals - if he'd rather smoke something he KNOWS is harmful than try something that is PROBABLY far less harmful, that's his right.

 

[Talyon]

All I know is steam is created by boiling water, and we all know what temp that is, also steam can be pressurized as water can't. Thusly in a burning building etc water can turn into steam and of course create steam inhalation, but Vape isn't anywhere near that temp when it enters your body, am I wrong?

 

[Hosedragger]

I've been a Paramedic for over 20 years and also a firefighter and can tell you I have seen more than a couple of steam injuries and there is no human alive that would be able to consistently inhale steam without dying. Now if you look at how many people who vape I would say that alone would be enough to tell you it is not steam but a vapor that is heated to the point that it will become gaseous but will not be steam which I believe would need to be at or near 212*f. so you can let him know from an other Paramedic that he has no worry about inhalation burns

 

[oxygen thief]

Health benefits of steam inhalation


When I used to get bronchial infection, I boil water, take it off the burner for several minutes, then lean over the pot with a towel over my head and inhale X20. Don't people like steam Baths?

My deal is this: E cigs are safer than cigarettes, period. Unless someone can prove different, go right ahead, if I'm wrong I'll figure out what I want to do. Anything else I 'hear' is meaningless. It's hearsay. I don't care if it's the head of the DEA. I don't want his opinion or what he heard. Show me evidence.

We're grownups here capable of making rational decisions, we came to e cigs didn't we? So show us proof that e cigs are worse and we will make a rational decision.

 

[maxidaho]

There is a HUGE difference between steam and water vapor.

 

[Berylanna]

I'd say your nephew's opinion is just that - opinion. There may be something to it, but with the millions of folks who consider vaping a true miracle that weaned them off tobacco, I would think that if there was a major medical hazard we'd know it by now. I haven't seen a single report of someone getting COPD or asthma or cancer from vaping - only opinions and fearmongering from the ANTZ. In fact, there are plenty of reports of people with asthma getting improvement when they switched from smoking to vaping.

We're all sovereign integrals - if he'd rather smoke something he KNOWS is harmful than try something that is PROBABLY far less harmful, that's his right.

I'M not afraid of vaping but I need this rebuttal before I buy him a $70 kit.

 

[ppeeble]

I hope he doesn't drink hot coffee. Someone told me the steam from coffee can cause swollen ankles. Admittedly the person who told me is 4" high and lives in my imagination.

 

[Butters78]

No offense but if I have a problem I hope your nephew isn't the one to take me to the hospital lol.

 

[flintlock62]

I'm no doctor, but he isn't either. I would say no to his remark. There are a few medical doctors joining the e-cig band wagon who say vaping is a much better choice to smoking.

 

[Berylanna]

I hope he doesn't drink hot coffee. Someone told me the steam from coffee can cause swollen ankles. Admittedly the person who told me is 4" high and lives in my imagination.

Not all day every day through a narrow straw connected to a sealed cup of hot coffee.

Note *I* am not questioning this, I'm looking for references.

 

[EddardinWinter]

There is no steam in vapor from a PV. Period. He is not even using the correct term.

If he is being trained using the wrong term for the activity they are presenting misinformation on, I fear for those who call 911 looking for EMT assistance in that area. If you want facts and study results on vaping, visit CASAA.

 

[Faylool]

Oh brother. I don't even have to read the posts. Rolling eyes

 

[Un-Loco]

The coils get over 220 degrees in our devices, there is no doubt that if you touched a coil while it was glowing it would immediately cause a 3rd degree burn, a very small one but still...

Now we also know that steam is not consistently 200+ degrees throughout its visible lifespan. Boil a pot of water and breath the steam rising above it at a comfortable height/temp... no 3rd degree burns.
Big difference between pressurized steam at 300 degrees in a pipe and a tiny coil creating vapor that cools before it gets to your mouth. Not sure why people are comparing the two. Steam also has a very short visible life. (I am obviously using my own words here, cuz I dunno how else to say it) So if we were vaping steam, there would be little to no visible cloud to exhale. I know there IS some steam involved in the process, as from my limited knowledge, distilled water is used in most if not all juices, but it is not what causes the vape cloud.

If steam did caused emphysema, then you could possibly also find data that people living in high humidity area's would have a much higher rate of the condition. Imagine living in Florida on the beach, 90% humidity most of the time, or in an area where it is consistanly foggy.

I don't know this stuff by the way, its just how it makes sense in my head, which has a few screws loose. heh

 

[Berylanna]

No offense but if I have a problem I hope your nephew isn't the one to take me to the hospital lol.

Don't worry, he won't confiscate your PV. He's actually very good, and ONE of his questions is what should he tell the trainer to CHANGE in the training so that it is not scaring trainees away from ecigs. I still ain't spending $70 on him if he isn't ready to try ecigs.

 

[ppeeble]

Seriously i would have to doubt that the temperature of the vapour we inhale is anywhere near enough to cause damage.
I couldn't resist a little experiment here - i have just stuck a thermometer in my mouth and sucked on my PV like my life depended on it - the result; a temperature of 33 degrees C.
Feel free to use my results as you see fit !

 

[Berylanna]

There is no steam in vapor from a PV. Period. He is not even using the correct term.

If he is being trained using the wrong term for the activity they are presenting misinformation on, I fear for those who call 911 looking for EMT assistance in that area. If you want facts and study results on vaping, visit CASAA.

The training did not mention e-cigs. The ADS for a lot of ecigs and the people interviewed IN FAVOR of ecigs keep saying "It's steam."

I even say that when I'm talking about SECOND-HAND vapor, i.e. we aren't afraid of being a table away from a cup of steaming coffee. He'd like to see medical information about the difference between helpful steam and harmful steam. If steam can cause emphysema AND is used as a treatment for it, there must be some differentiator -- frequency? Temperature? Density?