Paramedic nephew says steam as bad as smoke?

[Un-Loco]

I for one tried to assist with my own description that steam is not the same thing as vapor, but without links. I also tried to find articles that listed emphysema was caused by steam and couldn't (lots of stuff that didn't meet the criteria). Lots of articles stating that steam can cure emphysema, but now that I have a refreshed and clear idea of what steam actually is, I know that they are talking about warm water vapor, not steam.

There are not clear links for this kind of information, more of a talk-your-way through how to get your nephew to stop smoking by averting him from the steam scare. This is a community forum, not a WEB MD, so a lot of us helped in the only way we knew how.

 

[Berylanna]

Thanks very much for all the info!

I was cut-and-pasting as fast as I could and emailing to my sister, and every time I came back to the thread, there were more really good ones! So after 4 mails containing about 4 posts each, I gave up and sent her the URL to the thread.

She seems to think the teakettle analogy will make the most sense to him (he's a former volunteer firefighter and his stepdad is still on that crew)

I had already searched through and read (and copied and snail-mailed to California State Senators and County Supervisors and their staff) most of the CASAA "Printable materials" but those were all to refute ANTZ. This family is not ANTZ. I got my sister a vaping kit awhile ago but she is a major technophobe (hence the emails instead of giving her the CASAA URL) and she freezes when it comes time to recharge or refill anything.

So if we can get her son past this hump, I'm hoping I can get him to become an expert vaper then sic him on his mom.

If he comes up with any ANTZ propaganda I know where to find beneficial pesticide

Thanks to all of you who gave info, including info on why there is no info.

 

[Off Topic]

It's not a steam. It's a propylene glycol fog. It's why atomizers are called atomizers. You can do it with heat and airflow. You can do it with ultrasound and airflow.

That's the chemistry of what's going on, for those who care about such things.

 

[Reaper0329]

Well, following all this, there's not much I can add, but I did hear that the vapor isn't small enough to actually enter the alveoli in the lungs themselves. That is, though, what I heard once, and I cannot find the source.

 

[cappss99]

All I no is that I've been vaping for 3 yrs. I don't get bronchitis anymore,which I use to get all the time. I don't have a cough anymore,I can taste and smell better then I did when I smoked. That's my story and I'm keeping to it.

 

[Schnarph]

It's not a steam. It's a propylene glycol fog. It's why atomizers are called atomizers. You can do it with heat and airflow. You can do it with ultrasound and airflow.

That's the chemistry of what's going on, for those who care about such things.

Yep, fog. The chemical bases we use to vape with are very similar to what is used in fog machines for concerts.

There is always a possibility of an allergic reaction to PG, but we are not vaping steam, steaming vape, etc.

Apologies to the steam-punk fans that think they are making steam with their PVs.

'You that's air you're breathing?' Blue pill or red, I know people that will come up with any excuse to refuse giving vaping a try. They like their reality just fine the way it is. I prefer my reality, but I do have a totally open mind willing to accept change. It's hard to present an argument to someone that has little or no references to back up their opinion, and don't want to learn the truth. I have never made any impact on the delusional minds that believe 100% in creationism, conspiracy theories, etc. One guy says something and it can trump thousands of scientific sources. Kids don't like to hear that the Easter bunny and Santa are not real. Most smokers don't want to hear that they don't have to give up nicotine when they quit smoking. It sounds too easy, as in, if it works so well why isn't everybody doing it?

Good luck Berylanna. The more people that quit smoking cigarettes, whatever the means, the better.

 

[DC2]

The best way to eliminate such concerns is to take a drag and blow the vapor directly into his face.
He will quickly realize that vaper is many degrees cooler than his own body temperature.

 

[SneakyVapper]

It's good to hear you've taken an active interest to help your nephew, problem is there is only so much convincing you can do. My sup is always telling me he needs to quit, and I've offered repeatedly to build him a box mod, as frustrating as it is. He's convinced that vaping will lead to water on the lungs which will lead to pneumonia...

No matter how much I try to convince him, that while there is no long term research done that vaping isn't dangerous, he can't seem to understand that it could be better than smoking. I'm also quite certain that REAL cigarettes cause pneumonia anyway. Off topic, but my point is, some people are ignorant (not stupid, just mis/uninformed) and are quite content to stay that way.



On another note, please share the wonderful information/goods when you receive word. It be awesome to see what kind of rebuttals you get. Seems like some good info we could all have. And next time my sup tells me I'm slowly contracting some weird disease that I wouldn't get if I smoked, I'd have an educated comeback

 

[Trick]

My nephew is trying to quit smoking, and failing. I've given his Mom some e-cigs but he's scared of them for first-hand use. He says it is a slam-dunk in the medical community that SECOND-hand vapor is safe, but he says in all of his training, all the medical people are told that steam inhalation is a major cause of emphysema, and he says paramedics DO rescue people with severe damage from steam inhalation. The implication from the rescue training is that steam inhalation can be as bad as smoke inhalation.

This may have been mentioned already, but steam inhalation is highly damaging.

However, many people confuse steam and vapor. Steam is the gaseous form of water and is not visible. What many people call "steam" isn't steam at all, but water vapor. Steam will damage your lungs (and other parts) if you inhale it. Why? Because it's really friggin' hot, that's why.

Water vapor is liquid water in fine enough particles that it can be suspended in air, much like the vapor we're familiar with. Water vapor is not damaging, nor is the stuff we inhale, as far as anyone knows.

We're not inhaling steam. If we were, it would hurt. A lot.

 

[Ken_A]

I did a google search on "breathing steam causes emphysema"
without the quotes and got over 3,000,000 hits.
they were all on how steam can help your lungs.

I did a search WITH quotes and got back:
No results found for "breathing steam causes emphysema"
Results for breathing steam causes emphysema (without quotes):

and the same results as before

I tried "breathing scalding steam causes emphysema" without the quotes and it got the same thing - no results found for...

but right there at the top are articles about how a breath fo scalding hot steam could relieve your Emphysema.

People rescued from a fire may have breathed in steam... but probably breathed much more harmful things as well... burning chlorofluorocarbons, smoke, ash, etc.

I honestly think that if someone comes up with an excuse like that for not vaping, they are trying to come up with an excuse to keep smoking. All you can do is tell the person to do a search themselves.

 

[XeniaMike]

Well, there just isn't enough research done on vaping yet, but IMHO I don't think there is significant heat in the vape to cause damage, being that it's much cooler than cigarette smoke. Hot smoke over time caused me to have to have deep root cleaning on my gums in front, so I'm glad I won't have to do that again with vaping.

 

[mtw4shore]

It seems the study he's referring to must be about MASS inhalation of steam not just a few breaths. Otherwise those in the sauna or steam room would be walking into a lung failure room. Also, water vapor is like when you see the "steam" drifting off of a lake on a chilly morning in April, not a boiling pot of pasta.

 

[DaveP]

Steam will clean concrete, tile, wood, and metal. It will also destroy those components if you continuously expose them to it. Water vapor is condensed steam. At the point of contact with the coil, there's probably something related to steam. As it leaves the coil, the temperature drops drastically and condenses back into water and PG/VG vapor with dramatic cooling effects.

The inverse square law applies here, IMO. It's all about distance and the expansion of concentration with distance. You can remove flesh from bones with steam at the source. A few feet away from the source the steam becomes water vaper as it cools down and re-condenses.

I like to remind people that Snow Cone juice contains propylene glycol used as a thickener. It makes the juice adhere to the ice particles. Your kid loves it. It's also in your toothpaste, your wife's makeup, and most salad dressings.

You ecig is more like the heated vaporizer you use at night to relieve stuffy noses. It's also the same identical method that hospitals use for lung breathing treatments. The PG fog carries medicine into the lungs to heal them and improve the patient's ability to breathe.

 

[Crash Moses]

Here is a link to some information in the ECF library. Should help with the follow up questions once the steam/vapor controversy has been put to bed...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/177551-pg-vg-peg.html

 

[Berylanna]

He used to be a firefighter/EMT combo, and they apparently rescue people from steam room accidents or something. The lecture may have been more about why they have to use their own safety gear, even if there's no fire. But it sounds to me like it is VERY badly-worded. I agree that it is probably SCALDING one's lungs that can cause emphysema, and they probably mean only ONCE though I'm sure doing such a rescue 5 times without the respirator is much worse than doing it once without the proper respirator.

But I'm guessing.

 

[Fladnag]

I am a firefighter, and I know that steam can be very dangerous to those fighting the fire. Water expands about 1700 to 1, so 1 gallon of water hitting the fire expands to 1700 'gallons' of steam, which displaces the oxygen to help extinguish the fire. This steam also contains the smoke particulate, so that may be where the emt is getting the emphasema reference.

But we are vaping, not firefighting...