If no one dies apart from God and what we believe Biblically considering spirits...how do you explain it?
Paranormal Activity??
- Thread starter Southern Gent
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Demons- sometimes. Reminders, I'd say more often than not. Jesus even pulled a stint as a member of the undead, shocking those he knew after his death, and reminding them of the influence that was left behind for them. The bible is riddled with spirits and ghosts, and not all of them are purely evil influences. Either way, if we say that the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak, and that matter can not be created or destroyed, we can also conclude that the essence of a being may linger, for a time, for better or for worse, and we can perhaps ponder the fact that what matters to a beings spirit may endure until an audience can witness it.
I understand paranormal activity. I didn't exactly understand what you meant that "no one dies apart from God". That God knows exactly when and where a person will die and subsequently where that person will spend eternity, I believe that. In the OT, when someone died, they either went to Hades (to await the day of judgment) or to paradise or Abraham's bosom (to await the resurrection of the Messiah). As far as the Bible is concerned, that's all we know. Since the death and resurrection of Christ, non-believers are sent to Hades and believers go immediately (in spirit) to be with the Lord. In the story told by Jesus about the rich man Lazarus who was sent to Hades, Abraham made it clear that there was no communication possible between those in Hades and the living (Luke 16).
If Lucifer is able to appear as an "angel of light", so can the other fallen angels. Deception, to be effective, doesn't have to be the exact opposite of the truth. ANY departure from the truth is deception. "Spirits of dead people" can't communicate with the living, but the fallen angels can make it appear that that's what they are doing.
And, Mr. Stick, Jesus made it clear that when He was resurrected that He was NOT a spirit, but a whole person in a glorified body. He ate and drank on several occasions. He had a physical body. No one else in history has been able to duplicate that. While I know that spirits and ghosts are mentioned in the Bible, can you give any specific examples of where they were "good" spirits?
If the question is "paranormal", then perhaps I should reword my statement. Jesus, in the flesh, after he died, is paranormal. Lazarus raised from the dead is paranormal. The transfiguration is sure heck paranormal. Folks taken to heaven on fiery chariots is darn near beyond paranormal. The spirit is not divided from the flesh, but in death, so if one who has died is seen in the flesh, the spirit is there as well. Is that a stretch? I don't get a chance to talk these things over much, so I do mean that sincerely.
No, it's not a stretch. I see where your coming from. I more closely associate the term to the view of the world---ghosts, spirits without bodies, etc. I would call the resurrection of Jesus, Lazarus being brought back from the dead, the transfiguration, Elijah being taken to heaven as supernatural, but not paranormal. But that's just me---all of those involved an actual physical body (as well as the spirit).
Okay.....confession time. I watch Ghost Hunters on SciFi. I have watched them for years. Why do I watch it, you ask? Thank you for asking that question. I just want to see how much the demonic spirits act out. You'd think that they would be bolder than they are. That surprises me. I love that they try to debunk everything they can. All activity, I truly believe is demonic. There are other things that I cannot explain and believe that it's all demonic, and I don't delve into it. I knew this guy whose uncle died and he was supposed to get his uncle's military hat. Well, he was buried in his hat. This guy woke up the next morning and the hat was on his bed. Whoa. Can't answer that.
It is a hard thing to relate. I've seen it, for what that is worth, and when you see a spirit, well, there aren't words. Terror, was the first instance I can remember, and I have no doubt that it was a malicious being. Near a native american medicine wheel on the face of Cheyanne mountain in Colorado. Anger, confusion, doubt, rage; that is what I encountered. I don't lie, though there is really no confirmation I can offer, but I never felt that the encounter was with a demon. Yes, a dangerous presence, and yes, an overwealming figure, but I did not see the need to run or the need to rebuke it. I still, and I revisited that place, have only the impression of a deeply troubled person who was left without hope. Paranormal, as in way beyond the construct of what I call normal, but completly rational, as I would be were I stuck in limbo if I were abandoned. Hard to detail, but as real as anything I can recount. The creepy part- when I drove off the mountain, both times, my car had chalky hand prints on its hood and doors, as though, whatever it was, was trying to hitch a ride with me. I never found a good explanation until I read up on that part of the mountain, and found out about a massacre in the area of the medicine wheel, and the road that passed right through it. I can't think that a demon is behind it, but I can understand how I would feel if I was stuck there- I would want to hitch a ride down that mountain too. I am sure that it would have hurt me, if it could, but I didn't blame it for that, and perhaps that is why it did not. It wanted out, by any means; it wanted to pass over, and had been waiting for far too long.
This is the problem with the paranormal- there is no confirmation, and no certainty.
I don't doubt your experience. I know others who have had similar experiences. I "dabbled" in the "occult" a looooong time ago. (seances, ouija boards, etc.) I was "fascinated by it for a short time. We had "interaction" with several "spirits". I was of the belief that there were benevolent spirits and malevolent spirits that were getting in touch with us. After one really "intense evening" of "communication", I came to realize that the spirits were really not who they said they were, and they were not good! That was the last time that I was interested in either the occult or the paranormal. I don't know what exactly demons are (people have differing opinions), but I'm convinced that what we were communicating with that weekend were either fallen angels or malevolent spirits. For some reason, I associate the idea of "demons" as having a physical body, whereas what I experienced were not physical bodies, but they were "weighty" nonetheless.
Chimney, they can take on many forms. I remember the times when I dabbled with the ouija board and vile stuff came out of it. At that time in my life, I guess I was 20, I really didn't think much about it until after I became a Christian 15 years later and saw a small pamphlet in the Bible Book Store on ouija boards did I realize how close I came to possession. It sent a shiver up my spine to be sure. After watching the Exorcist....well 1/2 of it anyway before I walked out, I threw the board out.
However, I did have an angelic experience. Long story, but I was headed toward a concrete pylon and I put my body over my infant son (there were no car seats in those days) because I had no brakes, and braced for impact. There was no impact. Someone turned the steering wheel at the last moment and it wasn't me. I wound up on the yard on the right side of our house (we lived on a dead end) and the car stopped, I put on the emergency brake and just sat there with my mouth open. After a few moments, I opened my door and stepped out of the car. My knees buckled. I got my son down for a nap, made myself a cup of coffee and sat on the front porch waiting for my ex-husband to come home. I couldn't hold the coffee cup still. I was shaking badly. At the time, I was not a Christian, but explained the incident as God reaching down from Heaven and turned my wheel. That was the first time I had a close encounter of the God kind. He saved my baby and me. Hallelujah Praise His Name!
However, I did have an angelic experience. Long story, but I was headed toward a concrete pylon and I put my body over my infant son (there were no car seats in those days) because I had no brakes, and braced for impact. There was no impact. Someone turned the steering wheel at the last moment and it wasn't me. I wound up on the yard on the right side of our house (we lived on a dead end) and the car stopped, I put on the emergency brake and just sat there with my mouth open. After a few moments, I opened my door and stepped out of the car. My knees buckled. I got my son down for a nap, made myself a cup of coffee and sat on the front porch waiting for my ex-husband to come home. I couldn't hold the coffee cup still. I was shaking badly. At the time, I was not a Christian, but explained the incident as God reaching down from Heaven and turned my wheel. That was the first time I had a close encounter of the God kind. He saved my baby and me. Hallelujah Praise His Name!
LOL...SC. I used to watch Ghost Hunters all of the time, but I got bored with it because they never really found anything decent. There was one episode, in a lighthouse, where a chair moved, that was the best one I saw. I quit watching it years ago.
There is this one show on Animal Planet called "The Haunted" or something like that, now if you want to see some really freaky stuff, watch that show. I stopped watching it because it seriously freaked me out!
There is this one show on Animal Planet called "The Haunted" or something like that, now if you want to see some really freaky stuff, watch that show. I stopped watching it because it seriously freaked me out!
Woah! Ouiji boards, I've never touched one, thank God! They really are seriously dangerous, they do open a porthole for the demons.
This is the scariest account that I"ve read about a ouiji board Inviting The Demon – A Ouija Board Story | True Ghost Tales
This is the scariest account that I"ve read about a ouiji board Inviting The Demon – A Ouija Board Story | True Ghost Tales
I don't doubt your experience. I definitely believe in the supernatural--otherwise, how could I believe in God and the Bible. I guess where I'm getting hung up is on the word "paranormal". I associate it with psychics, ghosts and ghost hunters, and other aspects of the occult. I DO believe that there are times when angels will "interfere" in spirit form to assist! For me, at least, that's supernatural not paranormal. It might just be me getting caught up in semantics. I dunno.
Although I don't believe in most paranormal activity, I would say that for those that do, but also believe in Christianity, Demons and or angels are the only possible explanation. If when somebody dies they either spend eternity in heaven or hell that leaves no possibility for them to hang around interacting with people on Earth.
Although, the church used to teach purgatory much more, so if we accept the concept of purgatory, perhaps that takes place in the same physical plane we live on now, but with the dead being in some sort of spirit form, that could potentially interact with the living. This could also explain why we do not have a detailed description of the mortals perception of Heaven from Lazarus. Perhaps Lazarus spent the four days of his death before resurrection in purgatory.
Although, the church used to teach purgatory much more, so if we accept the concept of purgatory, perhaps that takes place in the same physical plane we live on now, but with the dead being in some sort of spirit form, that could potentially interact with the living. This could also explain why we do not have a detailed description of the mortals perception of Heaven from Lazarus. Perhaps Lazarus spent the four days of his death before resurrection in purgatory.
Purgatory was "sold" by the church for a long time. The idea was that there was a place where people who weren't "really bad" could go to pay for the minor sins that they committed. Others (the living) could buy indulgences for them to get them out of purgatory sooner. However, there's no mention of purgatory in the Bible. And why would it be necessary! If a person believes that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient (and it was), what sins would the person in purgatory be "paying for"? If they are paying for sins, then that means that Christ's work wasn't actually "finished".
There were actually 2 men in the Bible named Lazarus. One was the friend of Jesus. He died for 4 days before being brought back to life. The other was in a story told by Jesus. Lazarus was a rich man who looked down on a beggar and felt himself "superior". This Lazarus was sent to Hades--the abode of the dead for those who had not believed in the coming Messiah. I was a place of great suffering where the dead would await the coming day of judgment. Across a great divide, he could see Abraham and the beggar that he knew. They were in what is alternately referred to paradise or Abraham's bosom. Today, we use the terms interchangeably---paradise and heaven. But a person did not go at that time to Heaven (the abode of God). They were waiting for the coming Messiah and His atoning sacrifice and resurrection because up to that time no one had lived a life that was "good enough" to go to immediately live with God. The cross took care of that. Since that time, as Paul said, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". There's no in-between place for true believers. All of their sins have already been paid for and they have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ. Non-believers, when they die, will continue to go to Hades to wait for the day of judgment. When Lazarus asked Abraham to send someone to tell his brothers the truth, it was obviously because he couldn't get out of Hades by himself or with anyone's help. Purgatory is a myth propagated by Satan to lull people into a sense of "maybe there will be hope after I die". Many people believe that when an unbeliever dies, they automatically go to hell or the lake of fire. Not so. They go to Hades until after their judgment by Christ THEN they will be sent to the lake of fire.
You are absolutely correct. What was I thinking. Apparently, I wasn't thinking! Another brain bubble. It's just hard to be perfect ALL the time.....then that would make me imperfect.....OH SHUT UP CHIMNEY!!!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
