PayPal not accepted for eCig purchases?

[Streptile]

Hi guys,

I am a frequent reader but very infrequent poster. I just checked out of an online shop and they had a warning:

PayPal not accepted for ecig purchases as per PayPal policy.

This is news to me. Forgive me if it's been discussed but I took a quick look and didn't see a thread. If there is one, please direct me there.

Has anyone else encountered this? What gives?

 

[Kopfstimmen]

True, and a lot of vendors won't take them. I know at least one vendor that does, though. PM me if you want to know it, but I don't want to place them in jeopardy by putting their name here.

 

[darkhood]

It's their policy for u.s. vendors. There's a couple companies based overseas but w/ stores here that take pp though.

Biggest selection - E-Liquid and Electronic Cigarette Shop - Category Listings

 

[DC2]

This is the guy that takes credit for removing electronic cigarettes from Paypal and Amazon...
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/12/action-on-smoking-and-health.html

Banzhaf prompted the FDA to warn the public about the dangers of e-cigarettes, including hidden carcinogens and other toxic chemicals, encouraged the several legal actions against them which have already been brought or are about to be filed, and used legal warning notices to persuade PayPal and Amazon.com to give up e-cigarette sales.

There are a couple of companies (Liberty Flights and Totally Wicked) that are UK-based that have locations in the United States.
Since they process their payments outside the United States, they still take Paypal.

 

[Orobas]

It's a hot mess. Authorize is jacked and everybody's hacked but paypal/ebay are stuffed stiff with their own misplaced righteousness.

blerg. we need other options.

 

[Streptile]

Thanks for the replies and the explanation.

we need other options.

We need something like IBAN in the US. PayPal gets rich off their exorbitant fees and imposes some ridiculous morality on their customers. There are other items PayPal can't be used for...

 

[zyglrox]

Let's not forget their horrendously scammer-friendly chargeback policy... or the way that they tend to hold thousands of dollars of funds belonging to legitimate business owners for months at a time by giving them the run around. Some of these people never do get their money and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you want to deal with a lot of crap as you attempt to make payment easier for your customers and incur the added risk of losing large chunks of vital assets in a clusters of semi-incomprehensible bureaucratic nonsense, then PayPal is your payment system!

One thing to remember is that they are not a bank and thus are not bound by the federal policies of the FDIC, which are there to protect your money from the people holding onto it for you and thus maintain confidence in banks by ensuring that your money is safe regardless of what happens with your bank. All banks in the US are held to these policies. Without them, banks wouldn't be a viable means for storing money and making transactions.

Because they are not a bank and do not fall under the same regulations as banks, paypal has comparatively more control over what they choose to do with the funds you keep with them than any bank. They can legally hold your funds virtually infinitely under their current user policy. I'm not kidding around here. Without that FDIC insurance, they can do pretty much whatever they want with your money and they would not be legally responsible for any losses it might lead to on your end. At an FDIC-backed bank, you can at least sue and report them for holding/losing your funds for more than a few days. It's your money and you should be entitled to it. I'll never understand why you would want to trust your money to a company that is not a bank. With paypal in particular, their stunts over the years are pretty widely known.

 

[Judge Dredd]

blerg. we need other options.

2checkout, Reg.Net, etc...there are tons, but nobody wants to put it in the effort, since most vendors use a templated website and don't know how to change the payment gateway they're using.

 

[tA71ana]

I was just reading that many times the payment gateway comes bundled withe the hosting account.
Does this mean that the vendor would have to totally redo their website just to change a payment gateway?
I mean, that's just nuts

 

[hvac999]

Many times, to change a gateway would require the shopping cart to add the new payment system. That is the way it was when I had an online company. It really wasn't a big deal.

 

[tA71ana]

Many times, to change a gateway would require the shopping cart to add the new payment system. That is the way it was when I had an online company. It really wasn't a big deal.

Yes that doesn't seem complicated.
Maybe it is a fee/pricing issue?
It just looks like Authorize. Net really stinks and I'm with Orobas..our vendors need to look into some more options

 

[Conchord George]

I would love to know more vaping related sites that accepted PayPal. I checked out Liberty Flights, but their prices seem about 25-30% above normal. I'd be willing to pay a little more, but sheesh.

 

[Orobas]

how about popmoney? i mean, it looks more or less like paypal with less righteous morality and better customer service.

 

[Carole]

Let's not forget their horrendously scammer-friendly chargeback policy... or the way that they tend to hold thousands of dollars of funds belonging to legitimate business owners for months at a time by giving them the run around. Some of these people never do get their money and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you want to deal with a lot of crap as you attempt to make payment easier for your customers and incur the added risk of losing large chunks of vital assets in a clusters of semi-incomprehensible bureaucratic nonsense, then PayPal is your payment system!

One thing to remember is that they are not a bank and thus are not bound by the federal policies of the FDIC, which are there to protect your money from the people holding onto it for you and thus maintain confidence in banks by ensuring that your money is safe regardless of what happens with your bank. All banks in the US are held to these policies. Without them, banks wouldn't be a viable means for storing money and making transactions.

Because they are not a bank and do not fall under the same regulations as banks, paypal has comparatively more control over what they choose to do with the funds you keep with them than any bank. They can legally hold your funds virtually infinitely under their current user policy. I'm not kidding around here. Without that FDIC insurance, they can do pretty much whatever they want with your money and they would not be legally responsible for any losses it might lead to on your end. At an FDIC-backed bank, you can at least sue and report them for holding/losing your funds for more than a few days. It's your money and you should be entitled to it. I'll never understand why you would want to trust your money to a company that is not a bank. With paypal in particular, their stunts over the years are pretty widely known.

That sums it up nicely. Thank you for the nice post. May Paypal die a slow and painful death

 

[PondScum]

The only thing I found was tobacco products. These are not tobacco products, the site says nothing about e-cigarettes or anything of that nature.

Amendment to Section 10 of the PayPal User Agreement
Effective Date: Aug 23, 2007
Amendment to Section 10 of the PayPal User Agreement
Beginning August 23, 2007, section 10.5 of the PayPal User Agreement is being amended to allow PayPal to hold your funds for up to 180 days and fine you up to $2,500 (increased from $500) for the following violations of the Acceptable Use Policy:

Using the Service to receive payments for any sexually oriented or obscene materials or services in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy; or
Using the Service to receive payments for any narcotics, other controlled substances, steroids or prescription drugs in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy; or
Using the Service to receive payments for wagers, gambling debts or gambling winnings, regardless of the location or type of gambling activity in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy; or
Using the service to receive payments for tobacco products in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy.

Do they consider this a tobacco product...ebay does and paypal is owned by them. With tobacco products you run into issues of Taxes if they are shipped into other states, as well as the ........ products being called "tobacco" products. I take it some venders have been told they cannot use paypal to accept payments?

 

[Carwashguy]

They must not pay a whole lot of attention to their policy on this.
I purchased 2 complete Vamo kits from China and payed the $97 shipping included through paypal

No hold ip ups or problems
I just put in for the invoice # they gave me

 

[sonicdsl]

This is an old issue; Paypal officially considers e-cigs tobacco products, and will not knowingly process payments for them for US vendors (for anything e-cig related). China vendors are in China, and therefore do not have this restriction (hence why that process didn't get snagged by PP), along w/most other countries.

The FDA is -><- this close to classifying e-cigs as tobacco products (allegedly announcing next month, though we will see), which will probably cement PP's stance.

Search the threads, there's plenty of them already on this topic that probably would give more insight. Also, check the Legislative & Media sub-forums for the latest discussions from the activists & CASAA on the latest FDA shenanigans. (See links in my signature).

 

[vernhall]

I quit PayPal years ago due to a rash of scam-artists that were running the old 'you account may have been hacked, please go here and give us all your account info' scam... Just wasn't worth the hassle so I decided if I can't buy it some way other than using PayPal I don't need it that badly...

 

[DC2]

I take it some venders have been told they cannot use paypal to accept payments?

Worse than that... some vendors have had their accounts shut down and their money held in lock down.