PEG a new ingredient, instead of PG and VG

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In another thread I posted 2 suggestions that are not PEG:

These are intriguing because they are said to produce a more dense and longer-lasting fog (in discussion of fog machines); this could enable less to be used to attain the same level of effect (and should also dissolve nicotine well):

* DiPropylene Glycol (DPG) BP 230C Dipropylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Might not share allergy issue with PG. Another possibility likely to produce fog is TriPropylene Glycol (TPG) BP265C Tripropylene Glycol Regular Grade (TPG) though DPG looks the better of the two

and

* TriEthylene Glycol (TEG) BP 285C Triethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Although DiEthylene Glycol is safer than Ethylene Glycol it is not a safe choice. The Tri looks promising though.)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...8-possible-alternatives-pg-vg.html#post277529
 
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bitey

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As mentioned PEG 400 is very similar to PG, it has a very low toxicity like PG so it must have similar breakdown products in the body (i.e non toxic).

Do we know what substances it breaks down to specifically? If this has been listed somewhere on the forum, would someone be kind enough to provide a link?

In particular, I would like to know if PEG produces lactic acid when it is vaporized because I am hyper-sensitive to lactic acid and cannot use PG liquid because of it. Thanks very much!
 

rustiangel

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I'm trying out some PEG from nuvape today, so far i notice a distinct different "taste" present in all the flavors, should i be scared? I just wanted to try something other than PG, i thought it might be causing my canker sores, but they cleared before i go the new PEG, so should i be scared to keep using this PEG?
 

Duckman

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I'm trying out some PEG from nuvape today, so far i notice a distinct different "taste" present in all the flavors, should i be scared? I just wanted to try something other than PG, i thought it might be causing my canker sores, but they cleared before i go the new PEG, so should i be scared to keep using this PEG?

Hey rustiangel totally off topic but try vitamin B2 25mg daily, never get another canker sore again, works for me. Hard to find B2 you need to go to a health food store.
 

rustiangel

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Hey rustiangel totally off topic but try vitamin B2 25mg daily, never get another canker sore again, works for me. Hard to find B2 you need to go to a health food store.


Thanks alot, honestly I don't know if the canker sores are caused by the PG, because I've always got them since i was little, when i smoked analogs, but it seemed like i kept em for the first month i was vaping, but it could have just been stress on my body etc. Or maybe vitamin B deficiencies I'll give this a whirl.


BTW LOVE your avatar, used to watch that back in the day.
 

MissVapor

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I'm trying out some PEG from nuvape today, so far i notice a distinct different "taste" present in all the flavors, should i be scared? I just wanted to try something other than PG, i thought it might be causing my canker sores, but they cleared before i go the new PEG, so should i be scared to keep using this PEG?

I used the PEG for over a month with Nuvape and felt fine..the only reason I switched was it was cheaper for me to make my own w/glycerine.
 

Cake

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I do believe it is-- I.E. 24 mg per 1,000 ml (.024mg per 1 ml) that is what i found on a chinese suppliers site, I cannot find it right now but i am almost positive, please correct me if im wrong.

You are wrong. Dekang reps came on and spelled it out: it is the content of nicotine per gram of liquid. In this case, a gram of liquid is close to 1 ml in volume. The reason for this measurement method by them is that they feel that content by weight is more readily understandable than content by volume.
 
Of the three, PG, VG and PEG, the safest one is PG. It is certainly heat stable, unlike VG and PEG.

VG is not heat stable and a fraction decomposes (about 0.1-1%).

PEG: found a second mention of thermal decomposition in the literature for PEG in the circa 400 range but little in the way of details.

Unless alergic to PG, and wish to make the safest possible choice, it is PG (from all we presently now).

I use 1/2 VG (1/2 PG) because it adds thickness to the juice and wicks better, and because of the superior fog volume. I estimate that produced toxins at 300 times less for a PG juice (depends on flavors and additives; some may be way below 1/1000) than an analog. And around 150 for VG. These quantities I consider minor so don't worry me much.

The best alternative to VG might not be PEG but one of those I mentioned in an earlier post.
 
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KreeL

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I don't do PEG. Never have, never will. I honestly wonder how many vapers actually are alergic to PG - honestly, very very few. Some noobs notice they get a little thirsty when vaping and immediately think they are alergic. This generation of hand sanitizing, anti-bacterial, don't try my pv because I have germs, I won't let my kids play in the dirt, don't touch the doorknob goofballs should never have started smoking, and vaping will never be safe enough for them.

We inhale a lot of things during our daily lives. Fumes at the gas station. City bus exhaust. Laundry detergents. Hairsprays. Perfumes. Deodarants. Bleach. Candles. Whatever dudes.

Get a bubble and crawl in it. Enjoy.
 
People have switched from smoking to vaping to reduce their toxin load. I understand their concern.

Vaping is not totally safe. But its a hundred times or more safer than analogs.

There's no point in taking unnecessary risks.

I rate the risk from VG and PEG as minor when considering all our exposures (cooked food being a major one).

For those who want the least possible risk, PG is the best choice. I still use VG but I am putting out the facts for people to make their own decisions.

Toxins are a danger when either the load is too great for the body to deal with, or there is no/or an inefficient metabolic mechanism for their removal leading to buildup. So there is good reason to suppose that 100 times less toxic load will in practice mean even smaller health impact.

I wouldn;t wish to presume anyone might not have an allegy (sensitivity) to PG, although the level might be higher than real because of the awareness of the problem and potential for confusion. But it's right that the issue is in the open. PG sensitivity does affect some people; this predates vaping and is well-known.
 
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Robert

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We really need to know exactly what is in this stuff we inhale. Over at righttovape.com and my site pdxlabs.com | Discourse on nicotine, e-smoking, electronic cigarettes and harm reduction we are working on a system for testing e-liquid so that consumers know exactly what is in this stuff. I'll be posting updates on our progress on both websites. If you would like to help out or have some knowledge that could be helpful please message me.

Please read my story here- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...sion/26771-horible-metalic-tasting-juice.html

Please test my Juice in a Lab!!!! I'm telling you it ain't right!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Off topic I found a link to some great Chineese toothpaste- it a couple years old but is really cheap. A Case (128 Tubes) for only$8.50 it's pretty good kind of a wierd mint taste though- oh well it was cheap. link- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/u...a8ba104bb752a1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
 
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VaporNebula

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Working at a pharmacy I decided to look into this Polyethylene Glycol "PEG" and found out that that it is a primary ingredient in prescription strength laxatives.

"Polyethylene glycol has a low toxicity, and is used in a variety of products. It is the basis of a number of laxatives"

Http: // en wikipwdia org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol

Sorry, can't post it as a link for 8 more posts.



So will this be marketed as a Vapor Laxative??
 

MissVapor

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I used PEG for a couple of months with NO side effects..When I used PG, the main thing I noticed is that my eyes would be bloodshot the whole next day (among other symptoms)

With VG I notice more congestion, but that is what I use now..not sure for how long I will...

Overall PEG gave me the best results..good vapor and decent taste and no side effects..but of course NONE of us know the long term effects of any of these ingredients..
 

nikomoul

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I used PEG for a couple of months with NO side effects..When I used PG, the main thing I noticed is that my eyes would be bloodshot the whole next day (among other symptoms)

With VG I notice more congestion, but that is what I use now..not sure for how long I will...

Overall PEG gave me the best results..good vapor and decent taste and no side effects..but of course NONE of us know the long term effects of any of these ingredients..

Did PG give you throat problems? Does PEG?
 
Hi,

I personally do not have a problem with the PEG, PG and/or VG ingredients. The one that I have a problem with is the dimethylpyrazine.

PEG as is dimethylpyrazine is just bases for many different products. The heating, vaporizing degrees, all of them occur below 57C, where in cigarette's the same ingredients burn at a temperature higher than 1800C.

To do some research one need the base-molecule info. In dimethylpyrazine (also known as 2,5-DMP), this base molecule is known as [FONT=Century Gothic,Arial]C6H8N2.

How does this look:
[/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Arial]Pyrazine, hygroscopic white solid, is an aromatic nitrogen compound characterized by a ring structure contains 4 carbon atoms with two nitrogen atoms at 1 and 4 positions; melting at 55 - 56 C, boiling at 115 - 116 C.[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic,Arial]
More on PEG will follow.

Greetings
CG
[/FONT]
 
A
Scratchy throat after inhaling caused by the water vapor. In a few days you get used to the "smoke" and the body adapt.

There are two methods of smoking and inhaling of which:
1: Puff and open mouth direct inhaling
2: Puff and inhaling through closed mouth and partly through nose.

In the case of no 1, the throat can get hurt more easily, where in no 2, there's less oxygen to mingle with the vapor.


B (Bold by myself)
PEG base molecule: HO-CH2-(CH2-O-CH2-)n-CH2-OH

Description:
The numbers that are often included in the names of PEGs indicate their average molecular weights, e.g. a PEG with n=9 would have an average molecular weight of approximately 400 daltons and would be labeled PEG 400. Most PEGs include molecules with a distribution of molecular weights, i.e. they are polydisperse. The size distribution can be characterized statistically by its weight average molecular weight (Mw) and its number average molecular weight (Mn), the ratio of which is called the polydispersity index (Mw/Mn). Mw and Mn can be measured by mass spectrometry.

PEGylation is the act of covalently coupling a PEG structure to another larger molecule, for example, a therapeutic protein (which is then referred to as PEGylated). PEGylated interferon alfa-2a or -2b is a commonly used injectable treatment for Hepatitis C infection.

PEG is soluble in water, methanol, benzene, dichloromethane and is insoluble in diethyl ether and hexane. It is coupled to hydrophobic molecules to produce non-ionic surfactants.


USES:
PEG is used in a number of toothpastes as a dispersant; it binds water and helps keep gum uniform throughout the toothpaste. It is also under investigation for use in body armor[11] and tattoos to monitor diabetes.[12]

PEG is a popular precipitant for protein crystallization, X-ray diffraction of protein crystals can reveal the atomic structure of proteins.

Polymer segments derived from PEG polyols impart flexibility to polyurethanes for applications such as elastomeric fibers (spandex) and foam cushions.

Since PEG is a flexible, water-soluble polymer, it can be used to create very high osmotic pressures (tens of atmospheres). It also is unlikely to have specific interactions with biological chemicals. These properties make PEG one of the most useful molecules for applying osmotic pressure in biochemistry experiments, particularly when using the osmotic stress technique.[citation needed]

PEO (poly (ethylene oxide)) can serve as the separator and electrolyte solvent in lithium polymer cells. Its low diffusivity often requires high temperatures of operation, but its high viscosity even near its melting point allows very thin electrolyte layers. While crystallization of the polymer can degrade performance, many of the salts used to carry charge can also serve as a kinetic barrier to the formation of crystals. Such batteries carry greater energy for their weight than other lithium ion battery technologies.

When working with phenol in a laboratory situation, PEG 300 can be used on phenol skin burns to deactivate any residual phenol.

Poly (ethylene glycol) is also commonly used as a polar stationary phase for gas chromatography, as well as a heat transfer fluid in electronic testers.

PEG is traditionally also one of the main ingredients in Paintball fill because it is thick and flexible. However, as early as 2006, some Paintball manufacturers have been substituting PEG for cheaper alternatives.

PEG has also been used to preserve objects which have been salvaged from underwater, as was the case with the warship Vasa in Stockholm.[13], and the Mary Rose in England. It replaces water in wooden objects, which makes the wood dimensionally stable and prevents warping or shrinking of the wood.

PEG is often seen (as an internal calibration compound) in mass spectrometry experiments, with a characteristic fragmentation pattern.

In the field of microbiology, PEG precipitation is used to concentrate viruses and PEG is also used to induce complete fusion (mixing of both inner and outer leaflets) in liposomes reconstituted in vitro.

PEG is also used in lubricant eye drops. PEG derivatives such as narrow range ethoxylates are used as surfactants.

Dimethyl ethers of PEG are the key ingredient of Selexol, a solvent used by coal-burning, integrated gasification combined cycle (IGCC) power plants to remove carbon dioxide and hydrogen sulfide from the gas waste stream.

PEG has been used as the hydrophilic block of amphiphilic block copolymers used to create some polymersomes[14].

Gene therapy vectors (such as viruses) can be PEG-coated to shield them from inactivation by the immune system and to de-target them from organs where they may build up and have a toxic effect.[15] The size of the PEG polymer has been shown to be important, with large polymers achieving the best immune protection.

PEG is used as an excipient in pharmaceutical products. Lower molecular weight variants are used as solvents in oral liquids and soft capsules whereas solid variants are used as ointment bases, tablet bindings, film coatings and lubricants.[16]


Clinical uses
Polyethylene glycol has a low toxicity[4] and is used in a variety of products. It is the basis of a number of laxatives (e.g. macrogol-containing products such as Movicol and polyethylene glycol 3350, or SoftLax, MiraLax or GlycoLax). It is the basis of many skin creams, as cetomacrogol, and sexual lubricants, frequently combined with glycerin. Whole bowel irrigation (polyethylene glycol with added electrolytes) is used for bowel preparation before surgery or colonoscopy and drug overdoses. It is sold under the brand names GoLYTELY, NuLytely, GlycoLax, Fortrans, TriLyte, Colyte, Halflytely, MiraLAX, Softlax and MoviPrep. When attached to various protein medications, polyethylene glycol allows a slowed clearance of the carried protein from the blood. This makes for a longer acting medicinal effect and reduces toxicity, and it allows longer dosing intervals. Examples include PEG-interferon alpha, which is used to treat hepatitis C, and PEG-filgrastim (Neulasta), which is used to treat neutropenia. It has been shown that polyethylene glycol can improve healing of spinal injuries in dogs.[5] One of the earlier findings that polyethylene glycol can aid in nerve repair came from the University of Texas (Krause and Bittner).[6] Polyethylene glycol is commonly used to fuse B-cells with myeloma cells in monoclonal antibody production. PEG has recently been proved to give better results in constipation patients than tegaserod.[7]


Toxic Level:
30 mL/kg, orally in rats

Through smoking? NEVER!!


(Info from: Wikipedia and other sites)

CG
 
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