Pegasus Vapor Academy PVA-40

[stanthemanchan]

Peg can be kind of abrasive and rude in the comments, but he's given pretty good info in his other videos. He was kind of rude to me in one of our interactions, as well. I posted a comment on his channel which I thought was a legitimate question, but he deleted it and sent me a two page reply on why he did so. Even with that, I don't see anything that would indicate he's out to screw anyone over with this project. As a prominent youtuber, he probably gets a lot of annoying stuff that he has to deal with from comments and messages and he can run his channel the way he wants to. From everything I've seen, he obviously takes his youtube channel very seriously and his reputation is on the line with this project. I think he values his reputation a lot more than the money involved here. Even if he stands to make a profit from it, that's entirely his right to do so considering the effort he's gone through to set it up. I'm not a buyer, because I honestly don't need another mod at this point but IMO $140 is entirely a fair price to pay for a dual battery DNA40 mod.

 

[tFOrRESTee]

The guy has made many videos and I learned a lot from him. To ruin his own reputation for 28k? I think not. Don't make someone guilty until proven innocent. Not everyone wants waste time to defend himself just because someone attacks him on the forum. There are better things to do in life, like vaping.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I can voice myself here, but on his channel and videos, it would get regulated by him to keep it positive, which is the truth.

Excellent point!

I posted links with real facts, so why did he sensor them?

Wouldn't it be better if he just responded to my posts? (Or for that matter...come in here, since he's obviously been invited here)

Eh-eh, noooo waaay, can't let peeps see what I provided....right?

Instead, he'll sensor the posts and make a new video where he won't have to answer anyone's questions and can say things that never occurred....and then scramble to try and explain?

The only post that could be considered as "negative" from his point of view, was taking him up his challenge...."If you do the math, I'm pretty much selling them to you at cost."

So I posted the actual math on what it would cost HIM and provided info so everyone could verify my numbers.

Whoops...33% profit is "pretty much at cost"?

That example was shown for the $25 Ni200 & batteries package....using his own stock, the purple Efest 18650 and a vendor on eBay for the Ni200. I even rounded up and gave him extra for first class mail and packaging.

 

[stanthemanchan]

I would be more skeptical of this project if he WASN'T making a profit from it. Anytime you buy something from a vendor, there will always be a markup. That's how business works. Otherwise there would be no point in them going through the trouble of selling it to you. The most important thing is that they charge you a fair price. I don't see anywhere that he's got an outrageous markup on anything.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I would be more skeptical of this project if he WASN'T making a profit from it. Anytime you buy something from a vendor, there will always be a markup. That's how business works. Otherwise there would be no point in them going through the trouble of selling it to you. The most important thing is that they charge you a fair price. I don't see anywhere that he's got an outrageous markup on anything.

I absolutely AGREE!

However, he's making money...off your money and didn't tell you.

Totally different making money off your own money. You take all of the risks putting up your own cash, or paying a bank for a loan with interest. If the project fails, then it'll be your own money (or the bank's money) that goes bye-bye.

Did you agree to give Peg an interest free loan and risk your funds on a prototype mod without knowing if he's making a profit? Cuz that's essentially what the crowdfunding campaign is doing. He pays you zero interest on your loan and instead exchanges it for a product of which he'll profit on.

How many peeps truly believed that this project was a not-for-profit Co-Op? (Group Buy)

Did he actually tell everyone...Hey ya know, I'm a businessman and I'm making a nice profit on this project, does anybody care if I'm paid for my hard work? I'm gonna make money on your interest-free loan (campaign)...is everyone okay with that?

Most people wouldn't care, but others might object. The point here is that it wasn't disclosed until today when he openly admitted in his video that he's making money, but got slammed with facts at the "pretty much at cost" claim.

He didn't disclose that he's making a profit, so there could be peeps that would object to giving him an interest-free loan that he'll in turn profit from in the end.

How many people in that campaign would have signed up knowing what Peg admitted to today?

And on top of all of that, if you used a credit card to pay for your campaign purchases....unless you have a 0% APR.....you are paying interest!

 

[hazozita]

I would be more skeptical of this project if he WASN'T making a profit from it. Anytime you buy something from a vendor, there will always be a markup. That's how business works. Otherwise there would be no point in them going through the trouble of selling it to you. The most important thing is that they charge you a fair price. I don't see anywhere that he's got an outrageous markup on anything.

My sentiments exactly. $140 for a dual battery DNA40 is a great price at this point in time. While there's no iron-clad guarantee that the PVA40 will be an outstanding mod, I've been following Peg for some time, and find him to be a trustworthy person. Certainly trustworthy enough for this project. If he makes some $ off it, wonderful. I get a dual battery DNA40 for $140. I'm a happy camper. My current dual battery DNA40 (a Vapor Flask) cost me more than twice that.

I have to say that this thread has been entertaining. It's useless to try to argue with people such as Shekinahsgroom, but if I may be so bold, I will offer two pieces of advice:

1. You may want to look into how IndieGogo operates. You'll find that when someone funds a campaign, they have the option to have their actual name be posted as a funder, or have it remain anonymous, with the latter funding posts tagged as "Anonymous." It's not a single person, as you try to claim in a post a few pages back. Same with when comments are posted on IndieGogo. If you click "make private" on your comment on IndieGogo, it's not displayed. The owner of the campaign has zero ability to hide, delete or edit posts.

2. It seems that the tinfoil you're using for your hat is clearly the bargain basement type. Consider upgrading to the authentic Reynolds Wrap brand. I'd suggest purchasing it from Amazon rather than Fasttech to ensure it is authentic.

Let the nonsense continue! It's a fun break for a slow Sunday afternoon.

 

[sikosam04]

My sentiments exactly. $140 for a dual battery DNA40 is a great price at this point in time. While there's no iron-clad guarantee that the PVA40 will be an outstanding mod, I've been following Peg for some time, and find him to be a trustworthy person. Certainly trustworthy enough for this project. If he makes some $ off it, wonderful. I get a dual battery DNA40 for $140. I'm a happy camper. My current dual battery DNA40 (a Vapor Flask) cost me more than twice that.

I have to say that this thread has been entertaining. It's useless to try to argue with people such as Shekinahsgroom, but if I may be so bold, I will offer two pieces of advice:

1. You may want to look into how IndieGogo operates. You'll find that when someone funds a campaign, they have the option to have their actual name be posted as a funder, or have it remain anonymous, with the latter funding posts tagged as "Anonymous." It's not a single person, as you try to claim in a post a few pages back. Same with when comments are posted on IndieGogo. If you click "make private" on your comment on IndieGogo, it's not displayed. The owner of the campaign has zero ability to hide, delete or edit posts.

2. It seems that the tinfoil you're using for your hat is clearly the bargain basement type. Consider upgrading to the authentic Reynolds Wrap brand. I'd suggest purchasing it from Amazon rather than Fasttech to ensure it is authentic.

Let the nonsense continue! It's a fun break for a slow Sunday afternoon.

that's what i'v been trying to say all along. so good for you

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

You'll find that when someone funds a campaign, they have the option to have their actual name be posted as a funder, or have it remain anonymous, with the latter funding posts tagged as "Anonymous." It's not a single person, as you try to claim in a post a few pages back.

Eh-eh, I tried it myself....the "private" function will show as PRIVATE just below your sign-up name.

But thanks for pointing that out!

"Anonymous"...is this buyer's sign-up name.

So unless there's 20 some peeps all using the same name, the private function is something entirely different.

Peg pointed that out in his video.

Now if there's another option in there that automatically names any given person as "Anonymous", then I didn't see it myself.

Is the Anonymous scenario that you're stating a possibility? Ofcourse.

Is the shill also a possibility? Yes

 

[stanthemanchan]

Reynolds wrap is overrated. I only use authentic japanese organic tinfoil.

 

[RandyF]

Peg could likely have easily found investors to get the 28k. The problem with investors is they don't just give you money, they want a return in addition to their investment, whether it be a percentage of sale, or a percentage of the company. Peg probably has plans to have 1000 (guesstimate) of these boxes made, he will use, lets say, 400 to fulfill the people that invested for free, for which you have already paid the cost to build. Now he might make a small profit from those 400, but it might be enough to reinvest into the remaining 600 boxes, which he will sell for a larger profit, somewhere around 100% probably.

You will get what you paid for, but like Shekinahsgroom said, you are investing in his company for free, while he doesn't have to leverage anything. It is smart, and if you are okay with it, more power to you, but he should have been upfront with what is actually going on. Even if it does cost him some of his own money to complete the remaining 600 boxes, the difficult part of fulling the manufacturing requirement is done and it didn't cost him anything. I wouldn't call it a scam, just an alternative to acquiring actual investors.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Peg could likely have easily found investors to get the 28k. The problem with investors is they don't just give you money, they want a return in addition to their investment, whether it be a percentage of sale, or a percentage of the company. Peg probably has plans to have 1000 (guesstimate) of these boxes made, he will use, lets say, 400 to fulfill the people that invested for free, for which you have already paid the cost to build. Now he might make a small profit from those 400, but it might be enough to reinvest into the remaining 600 boxes, which he will sell for a larger profit, somewhere around 100% probably.

You will get what you paid for, but like Shekinahsgroom said, you are investing in his company for free, while he doesn't have to leverage anything. It is smart, and if you are okay with it, more power to you, but he should have been upfront with what is actually going on. Even if it does cost him some of his own money to complete the remaining 600 boxes, the difficult part of fulling the manufacturing requirement is done and it didn't cost him anything. I wouldn't call it a scam, just an alternative to acquiring actual investors.

(Applause)

 

[Jason Jarvi]

And I especially like how Steve at Evolv addressed you as Peg, which directly contradicts your spiel just before all that talking about protecting your identity and Evolv won't tell you if "I'm an authorized reseller". Yes, they will....that's why they have the links so the general public can verify if your DNA is the real McCoy. And since Steve addressed you as "Peg", then it's obvious that they'll be able to ask Steve if you are an authorized reseller of the DNA40 which is inside of a Chinese-made mod.

I get that you don't trust him and that's fine. But if you happen to actually go to the Evolv site and click on Authorized Resellers..... there are none listed... so does that mean every evolv board is fugazi? You seem to be angry that he'll make a profit. Does it really matter if he makes a profit?... you still get a genuine DNA 40 mod for a $140. Should he not make a profit, is that what will make you happy? Also Evolv has done buisness with china (innokin svd 20 has a genuine evolv board in it), so yeah. PEG is buying the boards in bulk straight from Evolv then sending them to china to be put into the mod. The authorized reseller page has to do with direct sales of the boards not mods which are manufactured by different companies. Based on what you're saying there are absolutely no genuine boards out there.... the VaporFlask.. fake... the Hanna... fake.... the Vaporshark... fake.... so on and so on. I'm not sure what your deal is, but you seem paranoid, or just anti-china. Lot's of successful products have come out of crowd funding. You're a loon dude.

Personal note: I'm not buying one. I don't like the idea of nickel wire, it seems like a stressful experience building with it. That's the only reason. Otherwise i'd gladly throw down $140 for this mod. I don't think it's a scam. I don't personally like the way Peg comes off some times as pretentious (he gives good info though) but I don't think he's going to rob you blind either.

 

[RandyF]

Actually to meet his goal he would only need to presell 200, so that would leave 800 (after guesstimating 1000 total units) for future profit. He said the price later would be $220 or so, let's say $200. $200 times 800 is $160,000. That is $160,000 with nobody to compensate, after doing exactly what he said he would do, giving his initial buyers a quality device, which I believe he has every intention of doing. pretty smart Peg....pretty smart.

 

[stanthemanchan]

you are investing in his company for free, while he doesn't have to leverage anything. It is smart, and if you are okay with it, more power to you, but he should have been upfront with what is actually going on. Even if it does cost him some of his own money to complete the remaining 600 boxes, the difficult part of fulling the manufacturing requirement is done and it didn't cost him anything. I wouldn't call it a scam, just an alternative to acquiring actual investors.

I would have thought the fact that he's doing a crowdfunding thing on Indiegogo would have made these points fairly obvious to anyone. He wouldn't be going through all this trouble if he didn't stand to also gain something from it.

 

[stanthemanchan]

Did you agree to give Peg an interest free loan and risk your funds on a prototype mod without knowing if he's making a profit? Cuz that's essentially what the crowdfunding campaign is doing. He pays you zero interest on your loan and instead exchanges it for a product of which he'll profit on.

This is essentially what ALL crowdfunding campaigns involve. This is the entire POINT of crowdfunding.

As a (potential) customer, I don't care about all of that stuff. The bottom line that I care about is:

1. Do I feel that $140 is a fair price to pay for a DNA40 dual battery mod?
2. Do I feel that if I pay my money I have a reasonable expectation to receive the mod that I paid for in a timely manner?

I think that your calling him a scammer and saying the people who have put in money on the project are suckers is being alarmist and unfairly dismissive. IF he fails to deliver on the mod THEN you would be fair in using those terms. But thus far we have no evidence of any of that.

 

[supermansrf]

I don't think anyone is really understanding what Shekinahsgroom is trying to say about the whole profit thing. Nobody expects anyone to work with no profit. There is always some implied. For example I go buy a kayfun clone for $49 which I know they probably got for $20-30. My $29 keeps the lights on so next time I need something they are still there. What I do have a problem with is entering into something flashy like a crowdsource project with false claims like they are going out of their way to help us the vapers with this project. When in all actuality I firmly believe that the intent all along was to develop a single owner product with a zero interest loan. Once the tooling is setup and the chain developed, it will only get cheaper to produce. Round 2+ will be significantly cheaper and do you think the price will stay $140? I doubt it.

Those of you who did it good luck. I hope that we are wrong. I honestly almost did this at first glance. Had it not been for Shekinahsgroom's post I probably would have. Then again this is the reason I keep coming back to ECF. I have saved a ton of money over the years by not making a stupid decision based on someone else's experience and then sharing their mistake so I don't do it again. What sold me on not doing this one was the lack of being up front. Deleting comments rather than denying with fact and bashing the author just tells me that he has something to hide here. Don't care what it is. At the end of the day something this good should have been very easy to find $28k laying around or an investor to startup properly. I'm ok with anonymous but if I'm sending you money and it isn't a donation, I'm gonna be d@mn certain I know who I'm sending it to and for what. What happens when it gets delivered DOA? Who replaces the unit or do you go without for weeks while they try to repair it? What happens when it blows up and kills someone? Who gets sued? Peg?

I hate that so many companies are trying to get rich off us. At least I have my local shops that I can support. I'll gladly pay them more and know I have someone's neck to ring when something doesn't work. If what I want costs too much they usually have something cheaper.

 

[RandyF]

I would have thought the fact that he's doing a crowdfunding thing on Indiegogo would have made these points fairly obvious to anyone. He wouldn't be going through all this trouble if he didn't stand to also gain something from it.

I don't think people realize the potential profit margin (in regards to the remaining units), or the fact that they are helping Peg meet a requirement he didn't have the cash for himself, or had the cash and didn't want to use. He isn't doing this for his followers, he is doing it to build his company using peoples money with no compensation, other than getting what you payed to have done. I gave him props, and he deserves it, it is very smart if it works, but initially watching his videos I had never considered what was actually going on, and he surely didn't offer it up.

 

[supermansrf]

Actually to meet his goal he would only need to presell 200, so that would leave 800 (after guesstimating 1000 total units) for future profit. He said the price later would be $220 or so, let's say $200. $200 times 800 is $160,000. That is $160,000 with nobody to compensate, after doing exactly what he said he would do, giving his initial buyers a quality device, which I believe he has every intention of doing. pretty smart Peg....pretty smart.

This is exactly what I was trying to get out. Not just from the initial purchase. Like I said take these numbers and figure in the second and third orders that could be easily made. Then you take these numbers and multiply by 2 or 3 even more and now you see where he is going with this. He's taking your money and going to turn it into 300-500k that go into his pockets. The crowd just sourced a potentially $500k profit to a guy who calls himself Peg. I liked boy named Sue better.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Actually to meet his goal he would only need to presell 200, so that would leave 800 (after guesstimating 1000 total units) for future profit. He said the price later would be $220 or so, let's say $200. $200 times 800 is $160,000. That is $160,000 with nobody to compensate, after doing exactly what he said he would do, giving his initial buyers a quality device, which I believe he has every intention of doing. pretty smart Peg....pretty smart.

Correct.

It's a very smart plan, vendors do it all of the time....it's called a pre-order.

But this scenario is substantially more elaborate and involves a host with no real-world disclosed identity, a false company name (being PVA) and a lot of missing facts including his long-term intentions.

Read the OP's post, the guy that opened this thread!

Now, what everyone has to ask themselves is....is it your business?

Depends....every person is different.

Some peeps could care less as long as they get what's being promised.

Other peeps would want to know even the most basic info....like his real name, his real company name and his long-term intentions.

Do I care of Peg makes a mint? Nope, not in the least...and I've tried to make that very clear already.

I sincerely hope that you all get what you've been promised.

Those of you that think that I'm out to get Peg....are missing the whole point.

 

[stanthemanchan]

I don't see anything sneaky and nefarious about a businessman who wants to make money as long as he charges a fair price for his products and delivers what he's promised. Maybe he didn't spell out his entire financial plan on the video but I think that's an unreasonable expectation for anyone.