Perfumers Apprentice Flavors

[GoodDog]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I wanted to respond to some of the comments. I've tried in the past to tell new DIYers about Capella and I feel TFA fans swarmed in and convinced them to buy TFA. This has been going on for a long time here, nothing new. The only difference now is that there is someone willing to stand up to the barrage of TFA fans and stand by their beliefs. I'm not saying anyone is always right but I do know that I was never able to get my point across without constantly feeling confronted. It seems that in order to be heard here sometimes you have to scream it. I was recently asked why I kept Capella a secret and didn't tell the newbs. So now I'm telling them and it's not going over very well. If it were any company other than TFA being bashed for some of their bad tasting flavors people would thank them for the head's up. I just don't think TFA is the way to go for new DIYers until they understand how flavors work together. I feel an obligation to tell them my opinion so they don't give up on DIY thinking it's too hard.

 

[Hoosier]

GoodDog, I agree with you. I know of no other flavoring that is better to start with than Cap's. Hands down.

I think the bashing on all sides has gotten too firm of a hold. Maybe I'm at fault for not speaking up sooner?

It's the "fanboy" thing? I'm not sure what is the driving motivator.

 

[AzPlumber]

I guess I need to step in here. I do believe I am an expert in crap (refer to my avi on this). TPA has never sent me anything that remotely resembles crap. In fact every TPA item I have is exactly as advertised, flavor molecules in a carrier.

 

[AzPlumber]

Personally I think the line should be drawn at vendor bashing. It's one thing to have a favorite vendor but to trash another just to elevate your cause only drives people away and creates conflict.

 

[Sedateme]

GoodDog, I agree with you. I know of no other flavoring that is better to start with than Cap's. Hands down.

Can you elaborate? I've got a ton of TPA flavorings, and I use exactly 1 of them. The rest have been meh for me. Tried a couple Flavourart. I have no Capella's, and I am just curious what about them would get you to make such a strong statement. If I am missing something great, I'll gladly put in an order for Capella's today.

 

[Hoosier]

Can you elaborate? I've got a ton of TPA flavorings, and I use exactly 1 of them. The rest have been meh for me. Tried a couple Flavourart. I have no Capella's, and I am just curious what about them would get you to make such a strong statement. If I am missing something great, I'll gladly put in an order for Capella's today.

Sure, check out my blog on flavoring levels. It applies very closely with TPA and FA, non-tobacco, flavorings. Cap's is more forgiving. You can overshoot Cap's and not get into a "bad" taste for quite a large range. It is possible to over flavor with Cap's, but you have to really work at it, and I mean REALLY work at it. Some flavorings I use have a trip from great to too much that is 0.1%, but with Cap's that same range is much times greater. This feature makes working with Cap's the best way to go when you are learning how flavoring works. It's like lowering the goal and making the basketball smaller at the same time-easy baskets. (It can take some time to find the perfect range, but it will still be OK when outside that range.)

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Can you elaborate? I've got a ton of TPA flavorings, and I use exactly 1 of them. The rest have been meh for me. Tried a couple Flavourart. I have no Capella's, and I am just curious what about them would get you to make such a strong statement. If I am missing something great, I'll gladly put in an order for Capella's today.

For the most part, what the label says is the taste you'll get when vaping.
Using too little will give you too little flavor, but using too much will not give you perfume, but just too much flavor.
I've NEVER opened a bottle (have 30+ flavors) and gotten an alchohol smell. It's entirely possible it's used in one or two I don't know, but I've never smelled or tasted it.

For the most part, you don't need to mix to get a decent juice. You may want to add something to improve, but it's not awful w/o it.

You're missing something great

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

The noob who hasn't even read all the 19 pages of this thread (only pages 1-8 and 17-19, but I am working on it, promise!), and has only used one single TPA flavour ever, should probably stay out of this thread, and especially not go all meta.

That said, I've never been good at "should":s, so...

A few things I quickly noticed when I started reading this subforum:

1. The person named Linda who is TPA seems to have done quite a lot for the vaping community, and in a very charming and personable way.
1.a. This brings with it a certain sense of ownership, responsibility, protectiveness on part of many here.
1.b. This enthusiasm is seen by others, rightly or wrongly, as "fanboy"ism, and hence a bit irritating.


2. From what I can tell, TPA/TFA has its roots in molecular fragrances and somewhat instrumental view of taste and flavour.
2.a. This is a style of thinking and doing that doesn't suit everyone.
2.b. People looking for the "simple, solid and forgiving" will most likely be disappointed in many of TPA/TFA's offerings


3. The conflicts or near conflicts ("bashing") occurr when people with a strong feeling for TPA/TFA encounter someone who wants simple natural flavours, and hence voice their opinion of TPA/TFA products as "chemical" or "perfume-y". The latter think they are only stating a fact about their own opinion and perception, the former reads into it all manner of slurs.

4. Further complicating this tension is the fact that many, many people here post rather tersely. Especially when a noob who hasn't found the enter or shift keys, spellcheck or hir grammar asks for opinions, both protectors and detractors tend to become rather short, blunt and heavy on the adjectives:

So you get Respected Old-Timer A boiling down a few years of thoughts into
Look at TPA, they have absolutely everything and Linda is very nice"
Whereupon Respected Old-Timer B thinks that's a bit unhelpful, and opines:
TPA can be tricky, I got the most gawdawful chemical aftertaste when I tried her Fluffy Unicornmeat, just a warning

What gets left out of this exchange is that the mixing styles of ROTA and ROTB are totally different. ROTA probably wants to tinker with different shades of one flavour and don't mind mixing with things that comes with a ppm recommendation. ROTB wants not have to use all hir free time on diluting dilutions of molecules with weird names and sniffing malodorous ingredients with a view to combining them in a way that creates something new and delicious.

And both remember being newbies, and tell the newbies what they wish someone had told them.

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

The noob who hasn't even read all the 19 pages of this thread (only pages 1-8 and 17-19, but I am working on it, promise!), and has only used one single TPA flavour ever, should probably stay out of this thread, and especially not go all meta.

That said, I've never been good at "should":s, so...

A few things I quickly noticed when I started reading this subforum:

1. The person named Linda who is TPA seems to have done quite a lot for the vaping community, and in a very charming and personable way.
1.a. This brings with it a certain sense of ownership, responsibility, protectiveness on part of many here.
1.b. This enthusiasm is seen by others, rightly or wrongly, as "fanboy"ism, and hence a bit irritating.


2. From what I can tell, TPA/TFA has its roots in molecular fragrances and somewhat instrumental view of taste and flavour.
2.a. This is a style of thinking and doing that doesn't suit everyone.
2.b. People looking for the "simple, solid and forgiving" will most likely be disappointed in many of TPA/TFA's offerings


3. The conflicts or near conflicts ("bashing") occurr when people with a strong feeling for TPA/TFA encounter someone who wants simple natural flavours, and hence voice their opinion of TPA/TFA products as "chemical" or "perfume-y". The latter think they are only stating a fact about their own opinion and perception, the former reads into it all manner of slurs.

4. Further complicating this tension is the fact that many, many people here post rather tersely. Especially when a noob who hasn't found the enter or shift keys, spellcheck or hir grammar asks for opinions, both protectors and detractors tend to become rather short, blunt and heavy on the adjectives:

So you get Respected Old-Timer A boiling down a few years of thoughts into
Look at TPA, they have absolutely everything and Linda is very nice"
Whereupon Respected Old-Timer B thinks that's a bit unhelpful, and opines:
TPA can be tricky, I got the most gawdawful chemical aftertaste when I tried her Fluffy Unicornmeat, just a warning

What gets left out of this exchange is that the mixing styles of ROTA and ROTB are totally different. ROTA probably wants to tinker with different shades of one flavour and don't mind mixing with things that comes with a ppm recommendation. ROTB wants not have to use all hir free time on diluting dilutions of molecules with weird names and sniffing malodorous ingredients with a view to combining them in a way that creates something new and delicious.

And both remember being newbies, and tell the newbies what they wish someone had told them.

Well you missed a few, but overall...bravo! and lol!

 

[GoodDog]

Your posts never cease to amaze me, Tona... sometimes making me shake my head but always with a good prospective, especially from someone so new to DIY. Given that you have made so few mixes yourself you have a way of looking at things that's quite intriguing and impressive.

 

[Sedateme]

Sure, check out my blog on flavoring levels. It applies very closely with TPA and FA, non-tobacco, flavorings. Cap's is more forgiving. You can overshoot Cap's and not get into a "bad" taste for quite a large range. It is possible to over flavor with Cap's, but you have to really work at it, and I mean REALLY work at it. Some flavorings I use have a trip from great to too much that is 0.1%, but with Cap's that same range is much times greater. This feature makes working with Cap's the best way to go when you are learning how flavoring works. It's like lowering the goal and making the basketball smaller at the same time-easy baskets. (It can take some time to find the perfect range, but it will still be OK when outside that range.)

For the most part, what the label says is the taste you'll get when vaping.
Using too little will give you too little flavor, but using too much will not give you perfume, but just too much flavor.
I've NEVER opened a bottle (have 30+ flavors) and gotten an alchohol smell. It's entirely possible it's used in one or two I don't know, but I've never smelled or tasted it.

For the most part, you don't need to mix to get a decent juice. You may want to add something to improve, but it's not awful w/o it.

You're missing something great

Alrighty gentlemen. Capella's ordered. Hoosier I read through your blogs, and I think I'll give my TPA flavors another try, with a little different approach... your blog on flavor levels mad me go "Ah-HA! THAT'S what I'm seeing!" in regards to some of the issues I was having.

 

[Hoosier]

....long...And both remember being newbies, and tell the newbies what they wish someone had told them.

You pick up things pretty quick Tona. How much longer before I'm begging you for advice? A week?

On a serious note, I'm glad you hang out in these parts. I'm always intrigued with your insight.

 

[Hoosier]

Alrighty gentlemen. Capella's ordered. Hoosier I read through your blogs, and I think I'll give my TPA flavors another try, with a little different approach... your blog on flavor levels mad me go "Ah-HA! THAT'S what I'm seeing!" in regards to some of the issues I was having.

Great! I hope you make something fantastic in the next few days!

(If I was of any help with that I may even get giddy.)

 

[GoodDog]

Can you elaborate? I've got a ton of TPA flavorings, and I use exactly 1 of them. The rest have been meh for me. Tried a couple Flavourart. I have no Capella's, and I am just curious what about them would get you to make such a strong statement. If I am missing something great, I'll gladly put in an order for Capella's today.

Others have replied probably better than I would have. I think Tona summed it up very well in that TFA is good if you WANT to tinker with molecules and enjoy spending hours in the lab getting something you would vape... something even great. Capella is good without all the tinkering and that's what I want and think others should have the opportunity to know about.

It's difficult starting out and many get discouraged thinking DIY is harder than it really is and give up. Some even give up vaping and go back to smoking because of the frustration. If I know something and don't tell others than I shouldn't be posting in this forum...I become liable in a sense.

 

[Shilo]

TPA can be tricky, I got the most gawdawful chemical aftertaste when I tried her Fluffy Unicornmeat, just a warning

LMAO...

 

[Newwell]

I will look for my recipe...this was a tester for 5mls of plum waffles..

plum..7 drops..tpa
bav cream..3 drops
waffle..4 drops

Thanks Debb, Because I have TPA Plum & didn't know what to do with it. Like I said, I love fruit flavors for day vaping. the creamies are more AM & evening. Are all the flavors TPA? Do you use any EM with that mix?
Again thanks

 

[Shilo]

Just for the record, I agree with you, and one of them is a flavor I've seen you list as tasty

In case I'm one of those you've aimed this toward....I don't in any way want to be perceived as being on a campaign against the company (tpa). I realize I'm a noob, but I've read the older threads and can see from the start that Linda has done a lot for the community at large. There are many that love tpa...many can do lots of nifty stuff with it. I, however am not one of them.

I spent a lot of time and money on tpa flavors mainly because I didn't realize there was an alternative, and it's the no.1 discussed flavoring company on this board, and for the same reasons many new to diy will do the same. In my experience however, after much trial and error I cannot stand all but a few of the flavs! I was so excited to find a good one that I bought a 30ml bottle of tpa redhots (very yummy!) only to realize I don't want to vape redhots much...
Peppermint? love it. Unfortunately though I love a bit of mint now and again I lean toward fruit/bakery flavors.
There are a few more, but for the most part, to my palette I get perfume/chemicals.

I have a lot of respect for the diehard tpa fans, but when those of us that cannot use them step up and try to give noobs with our same experience hope that there is diy outside of tpa we're not attacking you personally, or tpa for that matter, just trying to offer an alternative and give hope to those that might otherwise give up

I completely agree with your well worded respectful post on TFA . I only found a few keepers out of dozens and frankly we should be able to be tell our real opinions and perceptions whether it is positive or negative on any flavoring company and on any thread in this section of the forum. I thought thats what this section of the forum was for. This forum should be devoted to the consumer end of ECF not the vendor end. Because the consumer is each one of us diving into the task of DIY juice and of course ALL flavor companies think all their flavorings are delightful.


I do agree with Hoosier too that things get too heated and some pronouncements and sweeping statements are over the top on many occasions which makes me not want to visit the forum. It also makes people much less likely to give their real opinions because they are chastized for slamming/questioning a flavoring however delicately they attempt to do so as Good Dog mentioned.

Nobody is going to agree on everything and nobody here however experienced has the same palate as anyone else here. There should be room for friendly disagreement and telling ones true opinions in a way that lets the reader know this is my opinion only- not a huge blanket statement because said poster is a DIY God or Goddess.....LOL

I never claim to know it all , I always claim to know what appeals to me personally and thats all I claim to. I ask a lot of questions. I read this forum all the way back to the first page before I ever posted here. I tried TFA, FA, Flavorwest and Capella's and continue on my personal journey in DIY.

When threads or specific posts turns into narrow minded pontification and such thats when I move on. This thread or any thread in the DIY section we should be free to disagree or express our opinions on a flavor respectfully and have that opinion accepted respectfully with a grain of salt because YMMV is true of all the companies. Capella's has some duds too and I should be able to post that in the Capella's thread too without fear. Same as this thread. JMO.

 

[Newwell]

.... I have lots of flavors from TPA that I prefer. I absolutely love their hypno, champagne, and mtn dew, couldn't live without them. TPA cinnamon and cinnamon red hots is great to add a few drops to many fruits, especially TPA pear....

(edited for length)
My4- do you have any particular tricks to using Hypnotica? I bought it because I loved the name, thought it sounded fun. I am also interested in sparkly, fruit flavors & see that you mentioned champagne. Is that one flav that "sparkles"?

 

[Str8V8ping]

I completely agree with your well worded respectful post on TFA . I only found a few keepers out of dozens and frankly we should be able to be tell our real opinions and perceptions whether it is positive or negative on any flavoring company and on any thread in this section of the forum. I thought thats what this section of the forum was for. This forum should be devoted to the consumer end of ECF not the vendor end. Because the consumer is each one of us diving into the task of DIY juice and of course ALL flavor companies think all their flavorings are delightful.


I do agree with Hoosier too that things get too heated and some pronouncements and sweeping statements are over the top on many occasions which makes me not want to visit the forum. It also makes people much less likely to give their real opinions because they are chastized for slamming/questioning a flavoring however delicately they attempt to do so as Good Dog mentioned.

Nobody is going to agree on everything and nobody here however experienced has the same palate as anyone else here. There should be room for friendly disagreement and telling ones true opinions in a way that lets the reader know this is my opinion only- not a huge blanket statement because said poster is a DIY God or Goddess.....LOL

I never claim to know it all , I always claim to know what appeals to me personally and thats all I claim to. I ask a lot of questions. I read this forum all the way back to the first page before I ever posted here. I tried TFA, FA, Flavorwest and Capella's and continue on my personal journey in DIY.

When threads or specific posts turns into narrow minded pontification and such thats when I move on. This thread or any thread in the DIY section we should be free to disagree or express our opinions on a flavor respectfully and have that opinion accepted respectfully with a grain of salt because YMMV is true of all the companies. Capella's has some duds too and I should be able to post that in the Capella's thread too without fear. Same as this thread. JMO.

wow another stab at me huh . DO you ever stop . On every forum no less . I havent even done anything to you

 

[Newwell]

Did you use cola or cola syrup?

Oh, good question. I hope it's cola because I don't have the other.

My4 & Hoosier, I used the Cola (plain). It finished with a light, "sparkly" cola flavor. My DH says it's very good too. I think by adding a touch of lemon juice & EM to the mix did the flavor right. So 80/20 PG/VG, 18 mg, 3 ml test - 14% Cola, 3% EM, 3% Lemon Juice.

I was devastated that my peach (not Juicy Peach) did not work at all mixed as a peach ejuice. So with my cola test leftover (~2 ml) I said, "What the heck!!!" and added 2 drops of peach & 1 more drop of EM. Oooooo, tasty!!! Rounded the flavor out nicely. The flavoring is now probably over the normal 20%, but now I've got an idea and a new goal to shoot for. Happy little camper again.