Petition against new Supreme Court Internet Sales Tax decision that will affect ALL products.

[jmur]

Now I'm gonna have to start generating reports to see whether my sales to South Dakota (and the 20 or so other states that have already passed "Economic nexus" laws in anticipation of this) meet the requirements of each those laws...

This is part of it that bothers me the most. Besides the extra steps Rossum mentions, the vendors we all use (most all online, so no physical prescience) will now have to remit the tax payments gathered from their customers to that customer's home state. And I'm thinking, most likely, quarterly. Talk about creating a monster load of extra work, accounting and hassles.

 

[CMD-Ky]

If those are the two choices and I have no others then I will fall on the incredibly selfish side of things. I find that to be one of my many admirable traits and have intention of changing. Although, as I look at the world, read the news, I often wonder, how this civilization works and I wonder if this is really the best we can do... then I think, gee whiz, if only I paid more taxes then everything would get a whole lot better.

 

[Rossum]

This is part of it that bothers me the most. Besides the extra steps Rossum mentions, the vendors we all use (most all online, so no physical prescience) will now have to remit the tax payments gathered from their customers to that customer's home state. And I'm thinking, most likely, quarterly. Talk about creating a monster load of extra work, accounting and hassles.

I can't speak for other states, but in my home state of PA, the threshold requiring monthly filing of Sale & Use tax returns is quite low. My wife handles it and spends about a half a day on it every month.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I can't speak for other states, but in my home state of PA, the threshold requiring monthly filing of Sale & Use tax returns is quite low. My wife handles it and spends about a half a day on it every month.

I shudder to think of how much time it will take going forward but, then, I am incredibly selfish and probably woefully (and willfully) ignorant about how civilizations work.

 

[Myk]

"And local" is part of it too isn't it?
It is impossible. Even in state mail order would be impossible to keep track of.

 

[HauntedMyst]

There is no doubt the amount of waste and graft that goes on in government is staggering (I'm in Illinois, if we didn't invent corrupt politicians, we perfected them). However, I'm grateful to have the road, police, fire, sanitation, infrastructure, etc. that taxes help provide. Rather than having to dig a hole in the ground every few months because the human waste has stacked up, I enjoy riding the porcelain knowing that it is the entire encounter I will have with elimination (sans the joy we men have with occasional outdoor ......). I enjoy driving to work on roads rather than having to use a rail dune buggy on washed out trails. I enjoy knowing the fire department is just a few blocks away and will come and put it out if my house is on fire (and unlike the early days of fire service, I won't have to negotiate a price to save it while it burns). Our national infrastructure is desperately in need of rejuvenation. Our service men go grossly underpaid. 1 in 5 kids goes hungry. If the nickel per dollar helps alleviate some of that, I'm happy to pay it. Is there any guarantee it will? No. But, in the grand scheme of things, I have little need for more stuff so if the tax goes to useful things, I'm ok with it.

 

[Myk]

If the nickel per dollar helps alleviate some of that, I'm happy to pay it.

That's 10¢ per dollar for you.
5¢ per dollar is state income tax.
Then there's 15¢-39¢ per dollar for federal income tax.
8¢ per dollar for FICA/Medicare.
Your property tax. Gas tax...etc.

Yet we can't afford to have healthcare, but we can afford a Space Force.

 

[CMD-Ky]

That's 10¢ per dollar for you.
5¢ per dollar is state income tax.
Then there's 15¢-39¢ per dollar for federal income tax.
8¢ per dollar for FICA/Medicare.
Your property tax. Gas tax...etc.

Yet we can't afford to have healthcare, but we can afford a Space Force.

We can afford to study shrimp on treadmills and drunken college boys. We can house, feed, provide medical care, phone and utility service for the non-productive members of society and their off spring. We can build trains and bridges to no where and vacant hotels in Afghanistan. We can fund ethanol, wind and solar (so long as it is not located near the wealthy) and we can build weapons the Pentagon doesn't want or need, if the plant is in the right congressional district. And on and on and on, waste, corruption in service to the election cycle.

I'll stay selfish. I have to work for this waste. I can and do spend my money more wisely than a politician ever will.

 

[stols001]

I don't do the taxes but if it occurs, oh my husband will be THRILLED. And I'm going to have to learn to hold on to receipts for longer than warranty period somehow. Sigh.

That's not really my ISSUE with it though. It's unfair, regressive, sneaky and an obnoxious way to collect new taxes on vaping without even really sorta disclosing it to the public much.

I also do not believe that taxation issues should EVER be something the Supreme Courts should be dealing with quite frankly other than perhaps "Taxation without representation," and I'm not sure how this quite applies, other than I feel a bit "underrepresented," in MOST areas of government.

But, if it takes an incredibly punitive annoying tax to fund SPACE FORCE, I'd at least request it be called VAPE FORCE!

LOL, I was talking politics with the kid quite well yesterday (including watching him squirm when I told him his well placed insult made the husband cry) and he's on the fence about SPACE FORCE, and I was like, "Oh my, kid if it were space exploration, I'd be thrilled, but if you count hand grenades, unexploded land mines and all the OTHER bombs the various countries have acquired, I'm fairly confident there are more unexploded bombs lying around than there are HUMAN BEINGS. (LOL, ironically, this LONG train of tanks was going by us at the time.) I also challenged him on globalism by pointing out that if it's GLOBAL, why is it that SOME nations are allowed to "participate" while others can't (under the past administrations.) He started talking Star Trek and being the best human you can be, and I pointed out that Star Trek was so sanitized you could drink alcohol without consequences and a hangover and that I kind of hated ST because humans were mostly AWSUM while aliens were frequently either having acculturation issues or being a robot and etc., and that I much preferred other Sci Fi that was more willing to admit flawed human beings are FLAWED and etc. We both had much food for thought.

But, I want a rename 100%. I ALSO would prefer that the resources we have LEFT were not squandered injudiciously by governments building better and better bombs. Etc. Because let's face it any alien coming here is going to be more advanced than us, so space soldiers and whatnot are just a GIANT WASTE OF RESOURCES that could be better spent you know, on terraforming and colonization. Maybe I'm nuts, but that's just me. If you just want to continuously re-up armaments, it's fairly probably that by the time we have manned space defenses any aliens showing up will encounter a giant toxic wasteland.

Sorry to digress, but I'd like Vape Force personally. I know some vapers who can cast some pretty awesome fog and while it's non toxic, it might make for a decent camouflage.

Anna

 

[Philabos]

"And local" is part of it too isn't it?
It is impossible. Even in state mail order would be impossible to keep track of.

Yes, that's exactly the point.
I am ok paying the state sales tax, if that is all this is about.
It's not. The WSJ has been very clear on the multitude of taxing authorities all looking for their share.

It's not even about sales tax for us, it's about the huge vape tax of which some states are fond.

 

[ScottP]

To me I always looked at not paying taxes for online sales as the counter balance to shipping costs. Paying both taxes and shipping may start making local retail cheaper again. While that is good news for those local retailers, it could spell trouble for smaller online shops. Those smaller online shops will not only lose sales, they will have to spend more to collect and remit those taxes for every state. There are some tax calculating web services but those can get expensive.

 

[lewiss]

Small business will not be able to figure out, collect and report these taxes. This is what 9600 tax jurisdictions looks like.

 

[untar]

This is what 9600 tax jurisdictions looks like.

You sure that's the US? Looks more like your windshield got hit by a stone...

 

[Rossum]

Small business will not be able to figure out, collect and report these taxes. This is what 9600 tax jurisdictions looks like.

That's not really what it looks like. That appears to be a simple county map. There are a fair number of states that have uniform rates state-wide. But there are other states where drilling down to the county level isn't good enough; where you have to get down to the municipal level. There's a zoomable map here:
Sales Tax Calculator - Avalara Sales Tax

 

[stols001]

I've been using an income tax generator similar to that one but simpler. And agreed, it's not quite that complex. I just hope the info I'm getting is CORRECT. I've been told before that being paid as a contractor, you give up 50% of your income, and that does not appear to be correct, to ME (I've never been a contractor before and it's a higher rate but not 50% unless my calculations are drastically impaired.) But figuring out my Federal, state and county taxes was relatively simple and I'm new to the game. Believe me, I will be double and triple checking my findings, but calculating taxes is not that crazy hard, or so it seems to me.

Vendors could do it. People could do it. Etc.

Anna

 

[Myk]

I've been using an income tax generator similar to that one but simpler. And agreed, it's not quite that complex. I just hope the info I'm getting is CORRECT. I've been told before that being paid as a contractor, you give up 50% of your income, and that does not appear to be correct, to ME (I've never been a contractor before and it's a higher rate but not 50% unless my calculations are drastically impaired.) But figuring out my Federal, state and county taxes was relatively simple and I'm new to the game. Believe me, I will be double and triple checking my findings, but calculating taxes is not that crazy hard, or so it seems to me.

Vendors could do it. People could do it. Etc.

Anna

You don't give up 50% of your income, you have to pay the matching part (50%) of the FICA/Medicare your employer would be paying if you had an employer.

But this isn't income taxes.
This is having a way to know the sales tax in EVERY jurisdiction in the US that has its own sales tax AND having a way to pay each of them (of course you would only have to pay the ones who had one of your customers).
This isn't a simple spreadsheet to figure out taxes.

 

[stols001]

Yes, I get it would be more complicated than that. And thank you for confirming my self assessment. My point is, I used a similar map and it allowed me to enter figures etc.

I agree there's some complexity I just don't think it is insurmountable. For example, I would (if I were a vendor) just start the calculations, and then as I developed a spreadsheet or WHATEVER I would then eventually develop a fairly rapid data base for each zipcode.

And yes, there are many jurisdictions and NO I am NOT advocating for this in any manner. I just don't think it would be impossible to figure out and honestly I would expect the government (if they had any sense, they don't so they probably wouldn't) to provide such a list to vendors. But they probably WOULDN'T. It would be a complicated and time consuming START up and each year, possibly, as the tax code changed (and I also assume that municipality and towns can change their tax code at any time.)

The last one, actually, is what makes me think it would be WAY more complicated and time consuming than anything else.

BUT, on the list of "maintaining one's own business" situations, I am doubtful as far as it being the hardest task for a business, when I think of having my own business I shudder at "Marketing!" "Inventory!" "Promotions." "The actual taxes at the end of the year!" "Vetting employees!"

These are just a few reasons why I would not enjoy being a small business owner. And, I'm not one so I defer to anyone's judgement on this.

But, in saying it may not be as complicated as one might think, I in no way support or endorse this and etc. Small businesses probably have enough to do. Etc.

Anna

 

[Myk]

My solution is I won't sell outside of where I have a physical presence. I'm not going to get a call and then try to find the laws for the place of the call to find out if I have to pay tax on the sale, what the tax is, where I need to send it and when I need to send it. The risk of breaking a law and paying more in fines outweighs the potential profits.

A much simpler solution would be to say when you buy outside of your physical presence the tax is at the rate of the business' physical presence.
After all at least by the law I'm under sales tax is a business tax not a consumer tax.

But that would be too simple and it's not the places that are getting businesses with low tax rates that are complaining. It's those who've chased businesses away who want to still force them to pay.

 

[zoiDman]

If Internet Sales Tax is going to be Collected, it would seem like the Most Realistic would be for each State to have a Single, Fixed Rate. This Rate would Not Exceed the Highest Sales Tax Rate inside an Individual State. And could be Revised on a Annual Basis.

The Easiest way for Retailers, of course, would be for Congress to Set a Universal Internet Tax Rate.

But getting 60 Senators to agree on what the Rate should be would be about a 1/10 of a step above Impossible. So it Wouldn't even be worth the Time to Draft the Bill.

 

[englishmick]

When it comes to taxes do you ever feel like that guy who sat on the beach telling the tide to back off?

Unless you're rich enough to own a share in some politicians that is.