Ahhh yes, silly me. They are just patents, end of discussion. Nothing to talk about or see here
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the debate. carry on.
Lol. I just meant that it's not unexpected bt will start accumulating patents. Good find.
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Lol. I just meant that it's not unexpected bt will start accumulating patents. Good find.
I don't blame you LOL
From post #93
However when pressed you avoided the issue, when pressed further you come up with ONE thing (not "things) that MAY be in a few flavors, with NO evidence that it IS in any of them- yeah I'd be "done also"
Context is "everything" the discussion was BT adding things (chemicals) that are harmful to be BURNED in cigarettes you made a futile attempt to accuse MOST suppliers of doing the same or worse- It's pretty bad to bash families who make their living helping us without having ample evidence or reason to do so IMO.
Like I said I stand by my statements 100%
Maybe before bashing hard working folks who feed their families as suppliers you should have some clue of what you speak of, rather than bashing other poster's "search skills" back up YOUR own statements with some facts (not speculation without clear evidence).
From post #93
However when pressed you avoided the issue, when pressed further you come up with ONE thing (not "things) that MAY be in a few flavors, with NO evidence that it IS in any of them- yeah I'd be "done also"
Context is "everything" the discussion was BT adding things (chemicals) that are harmful to be BURNED in cigarettes you made a futile attempt to accuse MOST suppliers of doing the same or worse- It's pretty bad to bash families who make their living helping us without having ample evidence or reason to do so IMO.
Like I said I stand by my statements 100%
Maybe before bashing hard working folks who feed their families as suppliers you should have some clue of what you speak of, rather than bashing other poster's "search skills" back up YOUR own statements with some facts (not speculation without clear evidence).
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As for the patents, I sincerely hope they're just doing so to be doing so, as a whole I can't see us supporting them coming into this and I certainly can't see that as ever being a good thing.
With the "track record" of BT we don't need them nor should we welcome them IMO .
With the "track record" of BT we don't need them nor should we welcome them IMO .
I have given them over $58,000 and will never give them a penny more!!
Too funny
You make some vague off the wall comments (as fact no less) when pressed for details your "excuse" is my search skills are lacking, talk about "not giving up", you made a terrible accusation and couldn't back it up at all, one that has major potential negative impact on suppliers and their families, I'd probably try to blow it off also IF I'd done the same without thinking it through
When you accuse MOST without even having a clue which ones even MIGHT be including something , then try to pass the blame onto others rather than taking on what you brought on it's quite clear what just happened.
Accuracy in posting such things cannot be overstated, it's of vital importance those who come here to learn are not fed bad or inaccurate information or opinions on safety that are passed off "as facts" as you clearly did. This is not some "personal attack" on you at all, it's simply pointing out that you made claims you could not back up, and rather than admit it you get a nasty attitude and talk about my search skills. Well here is some useful information for the future when You make claims and are asked to clear them up, you need to do just that . It's not hard to search for something when you know what you're looking for. It IS impossible to find "the invisible" and your statement (quoted above) was FAR too vague to be of any use to anyone, much less any information that would have been helpful in a "search" but thanks for avoiding that , ignoring the obvious and instead several times insulting my "search skills" . I can always use a great laugh!
You make some vague off the wall comments (as fact no less) when pressed for details your "excuse" is my search skills are lacking, talk about "not giving up", you made a terrible accusation and couldn't back it up at all, one that has major potential negative impact on suppliers and their families, I'd probably try to blow it off also IF I'd done the same without thinking it through
When you accuse MOST without even having a clue which ones even MIGHT be including something , then try to pass the blame onto others rather than taking on what you brought on it's quite clear what just happened.
Accuracy in posting such things cannot be overstated, it's of vital importance those who come here to learn are not fed bad or inaccurate information or opinions on safety that are passed off "as facts" as you clearly did. This is not some "personal attack" on you at all, it's simply pointing out that you made claims you could not back up, and rather than admit it you get a nasty attitude and talk about my search skills. Well here is some useful information for the future when You make claims and are asked to clear them up, you need to do just that . It's not hard to search for something when you know what you're looking for. It IS impossible to find "the invisible" and your statement (quoted above) was FAR too vague to be of any use to anyone, much less any information that would have been helpful in a "search" but thanks for avoiding that , ignoring the obvious and instead several times insulting my "search skills" . I can always use a great laugh!
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No doubt! Don't you feel that IF they were to get into the vaping industry they'd pollute it same as they have with the cigarette industry?
Fact is, many vendors do use off the shelf flavorings found in grocery stores .. fact is, no one knows what happens to these substances when combined with what ever ends up in your liquid and is then turned to vapor .. fact is, carto filling does burn and there is an extensive thread here dealing with that ..
So ... combine off the shelf flavors / and turn them to vapor in a carto / who knows what you end up with .. ??
Point .. ?? can we conclusively state what the facts are regarding what these blends end up as in our lungs .. ?? No ..
Is there a method in place to assure users of the consistency and ingredients in liquid .. ?? No ..
Is there long term information regarding effects .. ?? No ..
Can a liquid maker pass along what could be potentially harmfull . ?? Yes ..
Thus, can a liquid maker introduce an additive that could increase the likelyhood of addiction .. ?? Yes .. .. and why would they .. ?? In order to increase profit .. the equation stays the same .. there are some folks, hold onto your hat here, that actually don't care about us .. they care about making money ..
This again makes the case for regulation / and standards .. and until that happens, PM and the rest really don't want in on the PV trend .. but when it does, they will be all in .. and the standards will eliminate much if not all of the Mom/Pop shops .. and, at that point, you will need to decide if you are going to give PM or the rest your money ..
So ... combine off the shelf flavors / and turn them to vapor in a carto / who knows what you end up with .. ??
Point .. ?? can we conclusively state what the facts are regarding what these blends end up as in our lungs .. ?? No ..
Is there a method in place to assure users of the consistency and ingredients in liquid .. ?? No ..
Is there long term information regarding effects .. ?? No ..
Can a liquid maker pass along what could be potentially harmfull . ?? Yes ..
Thus, can a liquid maker introduce an additive that could increase the likelyhood of addiction .. ?? Yes .. .. and why would they .. ?? In order to increase profit .. the equation stays the same .. there are some folks, hold onto your hat here, that actually don't care about us .. they care about making money ..
This again makes the case for regulation / and standards .. and until that happens, PM and the rest really don't want in on the PV trend .. but when it does, they will be all in .. and the standards will eliminate much if not all of the Mom/Pop shops .. and, at that point, you will need to decide if you are going to give PM or the rest your money ..
Fact is workers at bakerys have been inhaling these flavoring heated much hotter than a PV does for decades, where is the news of them "dropping like flies" - doesn't exist so YES there is "long term exposure" results, some don't want to admit that but that won't change the facts either.
Fact is Regulation is a JOKE it's a premise to get more $ from businesses which is passed on to the consumer, IF it WERE about protection, BT would be out of business (not thriving) and Chantix etc. would NOT be on the market Period
Fact is "Popcorn Lung" comes from superheating a flavoring with a (likely) 1,000 watt or so (maybe more)AC MW oven, now I can't say how hot that gets in 2+ minutes but I'm pretty sure NO PV approaches those temps-- does this mean that I want to use those flavorings NO- but it's a stretch to say that because super heated via AC MW is bad then in a PV is as bad or worse in my view. This will not hold true IF your PV + atty pushes 1K watts or so then all bets are off
Fact is WE the consumer/vapors DO regulate the suppliers NOW- forums just like this can easily "Make" or break a vendor in short order and they All KNOW that fact. There is NO incentive for them to add something they KNOW is bad for us, some of the brightest minds out there are vapors- this is no "big secret" and it's not hard to guess once found out what the end result would be NOT to even consider that none of the "Mom & Pop" shops could afford the liabilty, PM et. al . CAN afford the litigation and are not strangers to it .
Fact is AGAIN we cannot trust FDA or the Government to have our best interests or our safety in mind, the fact BT operates as they do is proof enough for most anyone to realize that fact.
Fact is anyone could buy and test anyone's niquid, adding "addiction booting agents" would be foolish and NO small business would take that risk in fact none have the R&D resources to even try to figure out what and how much of "what" to even add- BT DOES (and would )
Fact is some HONEST and true Regulation is NOT what I believe most of us are against, we just don't trust that IS what we'd get. Clouding the truth with silly assumptions that most here don't want safety is dishonest and misleading (at best)
It makes NO sense to try to pass off the Only Reason why BT is not in the PV market is lack of regulations LOL they would love to do as they wish to niquid, they're not in it simply because at this moment they don't see the reward worth the risk of it possibly being banned or Over-Regulated in the near future. They have proved they are about the $$ $ at all cost (in human lives as well).
Fact is Regulation is a JOKE it's a premise to get more $ from businesses which is passed on to the consumer, IF it WERE about protection, BT would be out of business (not thriving) and Chantix etc. would NOT be on the market Period
Fact is "Popcorn Lung" comes from superheating a flavoring with a (likely) 1,000 watt or so (maybe more)AC MW oven, now I can't say how hot that gets in 2+ minutes but I'm pretty sure NO PV approaches those temps-- does this mean that I want to use those flavorings NO- but it's a stretch to say that because super heated via AC MW is bad then in a PV is as bad or worse in my view. This will not hold true IF your PV + atty pushes 1K watts or so then all bets are off
Fact is WE the consumer/vapors DO regulate the suppliers NOW- forums just like this can easily "Make" or break a vendor in short order and they All KNOW that fact. There is NO incentive for them to add something they KNOW is bad for us, some of the brightest minds out there are vapors- this is no "big secret" and it's not hard to guess once found out what the end result would be NOT to even consider that none of the "Mom & Pop" shops could afford the liabilty, PM et. al . CAN afford the litigation and are not strangers to it .
Fact is AGAIN we cannot trust FDA or the Government to have our best interests or our safety in mind, the fact BT operates as they do is proof enough for most anyone to realize that fact.
Fact is anyone could buy and test anyone's niquid, adding "addiction booting agents" would be foolish and NO small business would take that risk in fact none have the R&D resources to even try to figure out what and how much of "what" to even add- BT DOES (and would )
Fact is some HONEST and true Regulation is NOT what I believe most of us are against, we just don't trust that IS what we'd get. Clouding the truth with silly assumptions that most here don't want safety is dishonest and misleading (at best)
It makes NO sense to try to pass off the Only Reason why BT is not in the PV market is lack of regulations LOL they would love to do as they wish to niquid, they're not in it simply because at this moment they don't see the reward worth the risk of it possibly being banned or Over-Regulated in the near future. They have proved they are about the $$ $ at all cost (in human lives as well).
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I don't think I would get a PV or liquid from Phillip Morris.. If they aren't being honest with me in what's in their tobacco, I'm sure they won't tell me what's in their liquid. @_@;
Exactly krnxguhj33! And I'd venture that is another reason why BT hasn't jumped wide open into vaping , they have to Know how much we hate them, they have plenty of loyal customers running out @ 3am to buy their products at this time, why would they want to cater to the haters
We are the lab rats, whether anyone wants to admit it or not .. denial is easy .. facing reality is tough for some ..
Out of the dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of liquid sellers, who is disclosing a complete list of ingredients .. ??
What time I have been here I have NEVER seen anyone deny we're the guinea pigs, that is clearly obvious. I have seen (all too often) folks greatly exaggerate "danger" (IMO) for example "that Most suppliers add things that harm your health " problem is they never seem to back those type claims up with facts.....
But let's not forget we were lab rats for BT- over the years they have added more and more and it's BURNING/SMOKING and we were intentionally inhaling the Hot Smoke filled with thousands of "stuff" we have no clue even what it is/was......
Life is far too short to make silly assumptions of "dangers" based on nothing factual - IMO anyway
I think we all know vaping is not "as safe" as breathing clean air, but most of the air most of us breath isn't "so clean" in reality anyway (indoors as well) One thing is certain we're not getting out of this world alive no matter what we try to do in order to wish we would. However it's not "rocket science" to realize vaping IS MUCH safer than smoking ever was and for most of us here I believe that is the "long and short of it"
Most if not all of us here were smokers, I find it funny and interesting NO one ever says of All of the tobacco companies how many disclose exaclty what they're adding to what you're inhaling!
We DO KNOW that BT addes a bunch of bad things to cigarettes , including ammonia in order to make the nicotine "freebase" and thus much stronger "hit" and greatly increase addiction.......and that might be enough to know for many of us
But let's not forget we were lab rats for BT- over the years they have added more and more and it's BURNING/SMOKING and we were intentionally inhaling the Hot Smoke filled with thousands of "stuff" we have no clue even what it is/was......
Life is far too short to make silly assumptions of "dangers" based on nothing factual - IMO anyway
I think we all know vaping is not "as safe" as breathing clean air, but most of the air most of us breath isn't "so clean" in reality anyway (indoors as well) One thing is certain we're not getting out of this world alive no matter what we try to do in order to wish we would. However it's not "rocket science" to realize vaping IS MUCH safer than smoking ever was and for most of us here I believe that is the "long and short of it"
Most if not all of us here were smokers, I find it funny and interesting NO one ever says of All of the tobacco companies how many disclose exaclty what they're adding to what you're inhaling!
We DO KNOW that BT addes a bunch of bad things to cigarettes , including ammonia in order to make the nicotine "freebase" and thus much stronger "hit" and greatly increase addiction.......and that might be enough to know for many of us
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My fear is that if big tobacco were to take a REAL interest in e cigs/mods and juices I would expect to see them go around buying out every single company around the world that we currently buy from at what ever it takes to get the business owners to sell. Then they have the only stake in the game and then raise the prices as well as adding some mystery ingredients to the juice. I can also see the government rolling out the red carpet for them to do so. I think enough money can buy just about anything. This certainly would not be the first time this roll has played out with a product...
The only thing that I see in the future that big government can really call tobacco related and control is the nic. When big tobacco gets heavily involved in the e-cig business, and they will, I see the government banning, regulating or taxing nic as a way to get their portion of the industry. The nic is the only true relation to tobacco that government will use as everything else in the e-cig industry can have ties to something else such as batts to flashlights, juice to food flavoring etc. etc.
It's coming it is just a matter of time.
It's coming it is just a matter of time.
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Yup u r right Mr P but without the nick I don't see me vaping... Not that I couldnt get it from BT but I don't want to have to. One of the greatest things about vaping is all the little people/business who supply it all. To put it simple if I could afford to shop at our small town grocery store I would much rather give them my $$ but I mostly shop at wal mart cause its cheap. I HATE supporting wal mart taking down the little guy but I still have to feed my 3 kids.
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