PIF Ethics

[SuZamme]

I agree with stating wants vs needs. It might be a courtesy for the person placing the original post to go back and edit it stating that it is "fulfilled. Thanks". That way someone coming along and reading it won't think it's still wanted or needed.

This very clearly stated and I totally agree. If someone has the time to list a "want" or "need", then they have time to edit original post when "fulfilled".

The other piece of this, for me, is that if someone chooses to gobble up a lot of offers and doesn't choose to "give back" at some point - May the fleas from a thousand camels make a nest in their armpits.

 

[asharp22]

member 1 takes various, generous PIFs, and offers little in return every time. Member 1 should probably have 100's of ml's by now. Member 1 is taking advantage IMO

member one should offer what has been tried and tested, and turns out is not to member ones liking IMO. How is it handled when Member 1 does this? is there a limit to PIF's generosity? as for how it's handled, I mean what can a Moderator do? we shouldn't deny member 1 the option to participate, but when does it become abuse and not just a hording issue?

 

[Vchick]

Wants - not necessary
Needs - are needed to help someone thru a patch, beit a difficult time, til they're able to purchase, trade, whatever

PIF group is an awesome community/group, I've never seen such generous, kind and helpful people in my life
yeah I know I need to get out more, cause I know there are more out there!

I've spent a ton on stuff in my short time vaping, I'm at the point in my life where if something I buy isn't needed by me anymore, that I want to pass it on whether it's a pif or want/need. I'm not looking to make anything off it perse or hold onto it til it goes bad on a shelf somewhere and I'll help whenever I can

Unfortunately I think that we've had a few more gimmes than givyas out there and I've had to cautiously watch over the posts and see who's doing what and where. I don't comment or pass judgement on those, but quietly watch. I know that not everyones got the time to do this

Jules, I'm comfortable with whatever you decide and I'd hate to make more work for the mods to have to police, I know that not everyones got the time to do this
but do you think maybe a friendly pm might help some?

Just my 2 cents

PS If I had snickerdoodle I'd send it to ya, maybe a batch of cookies instead? uh ohh nevermind you did just get out of the hospital didn't you? sorry lol

Vicki

 

[RippleInStillWater]

I think the separate thread for want and needs is a good idea, with the op posting 'Fulfilled " is a tremendous idea, maybe in a larger font with a different color.

I don't look to see who takes what, this stuff is new for my pif-newb self -- should I feel bad about taking tv juice from Sallana? Wanting to try the famous Jules BBB? I offered......sigh.....stuff to both, I hope that's doing enough. I know, I just got here, don't sweat the small stuff!

The seven deadly sins suck, some are just greedy. I guess but I just turn the other cheek anyway, always have -- drives my wife nuts, she says I'm too nice and trusting -- better than being hard and cynical, makes me feel old and republican.

Yeah, Jules, you can ask for stuff, even Jesus had needs!

 

[r3dgh0s7]

changed from the iconoclast?

IMO, if you are posting in this thread, you arent the one this thread is directed to!

 

[basementcat]

I see much as most of you do. A want is simply a want. Not necessity. Just a request for something that could be spared without pain to the giving party. Simple as this, people can choose to ignore the wants and adress the needs first. So my answer is no. You're not a bad person even if you're filthy rich with a stash that rivals suppliers as long as it's not passed off as an unnecessary need.

 

[Vchick]

Maybe my asking the mods to send a pm is a bad idea, since you have to be a member to join, can the mods ask someone to leave and remove them?

Just a thought because I think we're all on the same page here

 

[Satharra]

Would I have issue with you asking for a sample? Nope. Would I think you were being a tad greedy if you asked for 30ml? Probably.

The biggest issues I have with folks posting wants is often that they imply that they don't have the money to buy that want. When they make such an implication, it screams need instead of want. Then, a quick search reveals that they've recently purchased a bunch of items. I've made a few want posts but never implied that I wasn't able to meet that want because of money issues or whatever. I ended up fulfilling my own wants (for items, not juice) once my e-cig budget refreshed for the month. It took a little patience on my part and I wasn't instantly gratified.

To me that implies greed and it is taking advantage of folks' generosity. While I understand the desire to try something right now, it just seems to be bad form when you use pity to try to get it when it's not truly a need.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that for every one of your wants that are fulfilled you need to step up to the plate and give back (at least in equal kind) before you ask for more.

 

[firhill]

WANT: Ferrari
NEED: Maserati

Thanks...and I promise I'll post confirmation after I get one of each.



*Sent from my Lamborghini using my telepathic abilities*

 

[r3dgh0s7]

*STAMP*


approved!

 

[firhill]

WANT: Ferrari
NEED: Maserati

Thanks...and I promise I'll post confirmation after I get one of each.



*Sent from my Lamborghini using my telepathic abilities*

*STAMP*


approved!

Tracking number please?

 

[r3dgh0s7]

My Italian associate, ....., will be contacting you shortly with the details. He works in construction.

 

[Jules22871]

I think the separate thread for want and needs is a good idea, with the op posting 'Fulfilled " is a tremendous idea, maybe in a larger font with a different color.

I don't look to see who takes what, this stuff is new for my pif-newb self -- should I feel bad about taking tv juice from Sallana? Wanting to try the famous Jules BBB? I offered......sigh.....stuff to both, I hope that's doing enough. I know, I just got here, don't sweat the small stuff!

The seven deadly sins suck, some are just greedy. I guess but I just turn the other cheek anyway, always have -- drives my wife nuts, she says I'm too nice and trusting -- better than being hard and cynical, makes me feel old and republican.

Yeah, Jules, you can ask for stuff, even Jesus had needs!

This really isn't about me asking. I know you all would give me whatever I asked for if it was your last drop. It was just a hypothetical ethical question.

Maybe my asking the mods to send a pm is a bad idea, since you have to be a member to join, can the mods ask someone to leave and remove them?

Just a thought because I think we're all on the same page here

Bringing it to my attention that someone is abusing PIF is exactly what I need. I cannot do it alone. We are now the biggest social group on ECF and as far as I know I am the only one that is modding it. I am bound to miss things. There is no way for me to be everywhere at one time. When my internet is out I freak out because I am wondering what is going wrong in PIF that I should be dealing with.

I really hope I don't make anyone mad with what I am about to post but it has really been bugging me lately and is why I posted this thread to begin with.

The very first PIF thread was started by our very own Clumsy. It was meant to help out those that needed helping. It did really well until too many rules and too much off topic chatter got in the way and a new one was started with even more rules. That is when I got the idea for a PIF social group. I think we have a phenomenal bunch of people here that have very big hearts even if they are attached to very small wallets (like me,lol) What I am seeing in the wants and needs thread and the PIF thread are people not quite holding true to PIF. What is wrong with asking for 3 things you want to try? What is wrong with accepting 3 510 batteries because we all know they only last about an hour per charge? What is wrong with accepting 3-4 PIFs in a day? Yes, at some point your offers back to PIF should increase but that is another discussion. We are turning into a playground of kids that are trying to be the boss and decide what is best for everyone. We already have so many rules it's takes 5 minutes to read them and people are asking me to make more of them. Then when I do people get upset because there are more rules. PIF used to be a fun, giving, taking, caring, laughing, crying, happy and sometimes sad place that we could all come to and feel comfortable in asking what we had to ask. People are now afraid to post a want or a need. They are afraid that their PIF offer isn't good enough. How many times do you see at the bottom of an offer "I'm sorry I don't have more, I've just gotten started"? We used to never see comments like that. People are becoming leery of posting anything, afraid they are going to get into trouble because they don't put up 100ml offers every time they accept something. If you haven't noticed, I haven't taken an offer in quite awhile and this is one of the reasons.

PIF= Pay It Forward. If you don't have it to give, don't give it. If it will hurt you to offer it, then don't offer it. But please, PLEASE, let's get back to what PIF is supposed to be, a group of people willing to help another vaper out without being suspicious of every person that posts in here. We are going to get hit by scam artists. It's going to happen. We just have to take our lumps and move on. If we keep letting the scam artists color the way we look at every new member then PIF is a lost cause.

 

[smilin0117]

I haven't read any of the preceding answers yet, so they won't bias me.

A Want, to me, is fair game for absolutely anyone to state, at any time, subject only to the idea of "good style" (don't do one after another). For instance, I wouldn't be embarrassed to post a Want to try a particular juice or piece of HW (as a loaner) -- absolutely not a Need, I can absolutely afford it or wait to try it, but as a good community member it's fair to have a Want pop up now and again. I may have heard a lot of good things about a particular juice, am on the fence about it, Want to try a couple ml.

A Need is something that should only come up if someone is trying to do something that they cannot cover, and that's directly related to themselves or someone they're immediately trying to help. Bucks are really tight, I just lost a battery and can't afford a new one with shipping at this point, I Need an xxx battery.

The similar concept pops up in multiple threads here -- this forum area works like a virtual coffee shop, people shooting the breeze, trying to help each other on different things.

Just my opinion, but opinions are like noses -- We all have them, and they all smell

Edit: Now that I've posted, I read the earlier posts. I totally agree that if someone fulfills a specific Want for me, I shouldn't accept others offering exactly the same thing. Now, I do mean exactly the same thing -- someone recently posted a Want for coffee flavors, and several of us offered them up -- it's fair to accept several different flavors from several responders, for a generic Want-to-try, nothing faintly wrong with that, since the request was to try different things of a general type.

I totally agree with Mark...especially his edit portion. To me its ok to accept and to request several different flavors of something...its not ok to get several offers of the same and accept them all.

 

[WhatAClumsyGirl]

This really isn't about me asking. I know you all would give me whatever I asked for if it was your last drop. It was just a hypothetical ethical question.



Bringing it to my attention that someone is abusing PIF is exactly what I need. I cannot do it alone. We are now the biggest social group on ECF and as far as I know I am the only one that is modding it. I am bound to miss things. There is no way for me to be everywhere at one time. When my internet is out I freak out because I am wondering what is going wrong in PIF that I should be dealing with.

I really hope I don't make anyone mad with what I am about to post but it has really been bugging me lately and is why I posted this thread to begin with.

The very first PIF thread was started by our very own Clumsy. It was meant to help out those that needed helping. It did really well until too many rules and too much off topic chatter got in the way and a new one was started with even more rules. That is when I got the idea for a PIF social group. I think we have a phenomenal bunch of people here that have very big hearts even if they are attached to very small wallets (like me,lol) What I am seeing in the wants and needs thread and the PIF thread are people not quite holding true to PIF. What is wrong with asking for 3 things you want to try? What is wrong with accepting 3 510 batteries because we all know they only last about an hour per charge? What is wrong with accepting 3-4 PIFs in a day? Yes, at some point your offers back to PIF should increase but that is another discussion. We are turning into a playground of kids that are trying to be the boss and decide what is best for everyone. We already have so many rules it's takes 5 minutes to read them and people are asking me to make more of them. Then when I do people get upset because there are more rules. PIF used to be a fun, giving, taking, caring, laughing, crying, happy and sometimes sad place that we could all come to and feel comfortable in asking what we had to ask. People are now afraid to post a want or a need. They are afraid that their PIF offer isn't good enough. How many times do you see at the bottom of an offer "I'm sorry I don't have more, I've just gotten started"? We used to never see comments like that. People are becoming leery of posting anything, afraid they are going to get into trouble because they don't put up 100ml offers every time they accept something. If you haven't noticed, I haven't taken an offer in quite awhile and this is one of the reasons.

PIF= Pay It Forward. If you don't have it to give, don't give it. If it will hurt you to offer it, then don't offer it. But please, PLEASE, let's get back to what PIF is supposed to be, a group of people willing to help another vaper out without being suspicious of every person that posts in here. We are going to get hit by scam artists. It's going to happen. We just have to take our lumps and move on. If we keep letting the scam artists color the way we look at every new member then PIF is a lost cause.

AMEN...Sista !!

 

[smilin0117]

AMEN...Sista !!

Gotta agree with Jules and Clumsy.

Sometimes PIF isint a very fun place. I havent been around that long, so I dont know what it was like before, but I know what its like now. There are times you read thru post such as the one Jules put up for Sallana and you think--Holy cow this place is freaking amazing and I would love to be part of it. And then there are times when the self policing publicly makes for very tense moments. Especially here--this is a group, a social forum were suppose to be having fun.

I think when people feel someone is taking advantage that is when a PM should be sent to either that individual or to Jules. I understand why its done publicly but for someone just popping in for the first time...kinda scary.

I dont know--just my thoughts i guess....

I still love this place!

 

[skydragon]

Just my opinion but what you said Jules is right on the money. Too many rules does nothing but stifle the forum and there is not way you can make enough rules to eliminate/foresee certain problems.

As far as it being ethical for you to ask for a "want", I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. You are the same as we are. Spend way to much on juice we don't like so it is either try and sell it in order to be able to buy more, hope that someone wants to swap for something we already have or ask for just a sample before wasting the money to begin with. I think asking for a sample is a fine way to save us all money in the long run.

I also think it will become apparent if someone is only taking advantage and the forum members will pick up on that and no longer oblige that particular person. Granted they may get away with it for awhile because as stated, so much is done through PM but they will be found out.

 

[VpnDrgn]

my :2cents: I think as long as people honestly state a "want" or a "need" then there is no harm in asking for something to try out
before committing to buying. Same with "needs", I left myself without backups and people stepped up to let me "Borrow" a couple of
batties. That is what our little group is all about. One thing I have heard about that is not cool though; people being swamped with
PM's of "me too" after offering somebody a sample. I'm guilty of this my self ( kind of ), but I offered trades for my request.

 

[Jules22871]

Using myself was just hypothetical. I know I can ask for anything. I don't need anything. I have some envelopes on the way from a very nice person and then the BBB samples will start going out. Other than that I don't need anything and I have more than enough flavors to keep me going for awhile. I leave all that for people that want/need it more than I do. I was asking what you all thought was ethical, just using myself as an example of a person asking.

 

[HyOnLyph]

This really isn't about me asking. I know you all would give me whatever I asked for if it was your last drop. It was just a hypothetical ethical question.
Bringing it to my attention that someone is abusing PIF is exactly what I need. I cannot do it alone. We are now the biggest social group on ECF and as far as I know I am the only one that is modding it. I am bound to miss things. There is no way for me to be everywhere at one time. When my internet is out I freak out because I am wondering what is going wrong in PIF that I should be dealing with.

I really hope I don't make anyone mad with what I am about to post but it has really been bugging me lately and is why I posted this thread to begin with.

The very first PIF thread was started by our very own Clumsy. It was meant to help out those that needed helping. It did really well until too many rules and too much off topic chatter got in the way and a new one was started with even more rules. That is when I got the idea for a PIF social group. I think we have a phenomenal bunch of people here that have very big hearts even if they are attached to very small wallets (like me,lol) What I am seeing in the wants and needs thread and the PIF thread are people not quite holding true to PIF. What is wrong with asking for 3 things you want to try? What is wrong with accepting 3 510 batteries because we all know they only last about an hour per charge? What is wrong with accepting 3-4 PIFs in a day? Yes, at some point your offers back to PIF should increase but that is another discussion. We are turning into a playground of kids that are trying to be the boss and decide what is best for everyone. We already have so many rules it's takes 5 minutes to read them and people are asking me to make more of them. Then when I do people get upset because there are more rules. PIF used to be a fun, giving, taking, caring, laughing, crying, happy and sometimes sad place that we could all come to and feel comfortable in asking what we had to ask. People are now afraid to post a want or a need. They are afraid that their PIF offer isn't good enough. How many times do you see at the bottom of an offer "I'm sorry I don't have more, I've just gotten started"? We used to never see comments like that. People are becoming leery of posting anything, afraid they are going to get into trouble because they don't put up 100ml offers every time they accept something. If you haven't noticed, I haven't taken an offer in quite awhile and this is one of the reasons.

PIF= Pay It Forward. If you don't have it to give, don't give it. If it will hurt you to offer it, then don't offer it. But please, PLEASE, let's get back to what PIF is supposed to be, a group of people willing to help another vaper out without being suspicious of every person that posts in here. We are going to get hit by scam artists. It's going to happen. We just have to take our lumps and move on. If we keep letting the scam artists color the way we look at every new member then PIF is a lost cause.

Absolutely!!
As I sometimes do, I got a little too focused on my response. It appeared to me that we were talking about that particular thread called "Wants and Needs". I failed to look at the bigger picture. Jules, You said it perfectly.

I'm gonna step up on my soapbox for a moment. I wouldn't want to see anyone be afraid to give or receive. In the Bible, the widow gave the only amount she could give... a mite. If she had held it back because "it was too small of a gift", Jesus would not have had the opportunity to recognize her gift as "more than all of the rest". And yet, I think that if she had nothing to give but wanted to, he would have recognized it just the same. She had a heart to give, and what's in the heart is what matters.

Whether it's in the giving or the receiving, we become a part of a sacred activity. Both are necessary for the activity to be complete. Both participants are blessed.
"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear." The women in our home have recieved so much here. And I desire to give back. But not because I owe you. (That would taint your gifts.) I desire to give back because I love you!