Plastic Bottles & E-Liquid

[Pete54]

Good discussion that is making me rethink my use of plastic bottles. I did find this info useful. What concerns me most is that most of the tanks we use are made from #7 Polycarbonate! I may have to breakdown and buy some of those expensive Clean tanks!
What plastic is safe for bottles these days? #1,#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#7?
What is safe plastic? The safest appear to be #2, #4, #5.

#7 is to be avoided due to leaching of bisphenol A (BPA). Also avoid #1 found with most bottled water. Avoid #3 and #6. More on these below.

As for BPA bottles, the rule of thumb is if the plastic is cloudy, not crystal clear, and you can squeeze it relatively easy, then it probably does not contain BPA. If the plastic is solid and crystal clear than it is usually polycarbonate - #7 and not safe.

Here's a breakdown.

#1 PETE or PET (NOT SAFE due to antimony leaching)
Polyethylene terephthalate

#2 HDPE (SAFE)
High density polyethylene

#3 PVC or V (NOT SAFE due to phthalates)
Polyvinyl chloride

#4 LDPE (SAFE)
Low density polyethylene

#5 PP (SAFE)
Polypropylene

#6 PS (NOT SAFE for hot liquids, alcohol or fatty foods due to styrene)
Polystyrene

#7 plastics including polycarbonates that contain bisphenol A (BPA) (NOT SAFE due to BPA)
Polycarbonate

 

[mwa102464]

I've PM'd Kurt one of our ECF Chemist and hoping he will give some input to this Plastic bottle topic some time soon. AG could you link me to the FB discussion thread please, I would like to see the dialog going on there as well as here.

 

[mwa102464]

Bringing these pics forward to keep on topic please =

[/QUOTE]

 

[sidetrack]

Been watching this thread and didn't respond earlier since I am not an expert on plastics. I can only give you my personal experience and quit frankly I got tired of the op getting bashed for what I thought was a valid concern on his part.
For me it's 100% recyclable glass. I DIY all my juice so I have a pretty good supply of flavors that were shipped to me in LDPE which I stored in enclosed boxes. After just a short time I started to notice when I opened the boxes the combined smell of all the flavor just about gagged me when I went to do my DIY. Hmm. That got me thinking, if smell could get out then something could get in. At that point I decided to transfer all my flavors into glass. Certainly not a cheap decision but I feel it was well worth it. Presto, no more flavor smell when I opened the boxes. While I realize this is a bit different that the melting of the plastic, which I have not personally experienced, and that could be just because I have not really looked for it, I am going to make yet another decision and transfer all my DIY mixes to glass as well. Just seems to make sense that I would store my mixed juice in the same material that I store my flavors in. I think there are many reason why glass has been around a long time. The last time I was in a lab, glass was the dominate choice for liquid storage. Is it the most convenient or cost effective...probably not but that's not the only concern here, is it? And I'm not even going to get into the environmental aspect of glass v plastic, that's a whole new thread.

edit: After posting this curiosity got the best of me so i pulled out a brand new LDPE bottle and compare it to one that I had reused several times. Since the OP held his to the light I did the same. Both had the very same wavy look on the inside when viewed this way. I'll keep you posted after I sacrifice the bottle to view the inside. (no mater what I'm still going to glass)

Edit: bottles sacrificed....appears to be no difference. Used bottle is not sticky or gummy and looks just like the new one. I must let you know that the used bottle smelled as if it had a root beer flavored juice in it, since it was a cleaned used bottle, the label is gone. So maybe not a fare comparison since I didn't use cinnamon, citric acid, or koolada flavor used DIY bottle. Maybe someone that has a used bottle of that type of a flavor could do an additional test?

 

[loft]

mwa do me a favor - cut that bottle in half and give it a good wipe on the inside. I'm curious if it's buildup/resin of flavoring, etc... hell even better do it on video

 

[mwa102464]

Loft, I already did that, and thought the same you did, it doesn't just wipe off my friend, it is the plastic all mended like it looks and doesnt move at all.

 

[loft]

Loft, I already did that, and thought the same you did, it doesn't just wipe off my friend, it is the plastic all mended like it looks and doesnt move at all.

Weird. Maybe I just have good juice, since I have bottles (with juice) from 2010 with no added 'fogginess' to them...

 

[mwa102464]

Sidetrack,

Thank you for your post, please keep us up to date on any of your findings.

 

[mwa102464]

Weird. Maybe I just have good juice, since I have bottles (with juice) from 2010 with no added 'fogginess' to them...

Loft, I'm not saying every single juice and flavoring does this, or every plastic bottle, I have had plenty of juices and plastic bottles that haven't done this, there not the ones I'm most particularly worried about, though I wont use ANY plastic any longer and haven't for some time. I happened to have a few bottles that I tucked away that I found that where full bottles, the pics you see are the result. They where approx 5-6 months old, however, when I looked at the 6ml bottles in my bottom feeder mods they all had the same issues going on.

 

[Roxxette]

mwa where the bottles the same liquid ? If so what kind and theres no need to mention vendor because you know how paranoid people turn here etc.


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[mwa102464]

roxxette , I already said in the beginning I am NOT mentioning any vendors, just not doing it,,,, I will say though the Vendor is a very popular one who makes some great juice. I had 5 bottles and 3 different flavors out of those 5 bottle, all 3 flavors where quite different too, not the same at all.

 

[Roxxette]

Again im not asking for vendor names i think i was clear when i say "no mention of vendor" , im asking if the liquids have any particular flavor like the cinnamon strains ?


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[mwa102464]

ya was just reiterating what you said to make it clear for others Roxxett,, I dont want people going there with Vendors, thank you for your post. One of the flavors may have had Cinnamon in it, but definitely not the other 2 flavors. The thing is also that I have other 6ml bottles that I use to use in bottom feeders and they too have these same marking's and symptoms in those I have been running completely different juice, and No cinnamon in it those 6ml bottles either.

 

[buffaloguy]

I think Pete54's post is spot on. I dont understand alot of the debate here or the need for a chemist to chime in. The research has already been done and its a fact that plastics leech. As in the whole scare over baby bottles.

I think mwa's origonal point is also ... on point. Vendors shouldnt be using any kind of "unsafe" plastic whether its for juices (or for our equipment frankly).

Im rethinking my use of plastics, and am moving to all glass. I already use glass for all my larger diy batches of juice. It keeps better.

Plastic does leech and it would be great if vendors only used glass, or plastics generally recognized as safe. GRAS.

Editong to make another point... We all left smoking cigs cause its unhealthy and unsafe and are trying (what we believe to be) a safer option. There should be no minimization of using equipment or storage products for vaping. If we do indeed want to be healthier... these things must be discussed and industry standards need to start being implemented to get us there. I actually applaud mwa for bringing all this up.. Its an important discussion.

 

[Spice]

I just ran around checking numbers on all my plasticware!! haha. Ty Pete.

I ordered glass bottles from a specialty bottle shop online just for this reason. It didnt cost much, a 2 oz blue glass bottle was under one dollar, and the amber ones were cheaper. That isnt expensive at all. And even if the plastic turns out to be safe, the glass just looks better, and doesn't corrode or retain smell.

 

[Pete54]

Can't remember who posted this link (I think it was Strprswpr) but I can't find a better source for glass bottles! Specialty Bottle - Glass Bottles

 

[AlmightyGod]

I ordered glass bottles from a specialty bottle shop online just for this reason. It didnt cost much, a 2 oz blue glass bottle was under one dollar, and the amber ones were cheaper. That isnt expensive at all. And even if the plastic turns out to be safe, the glass just looks better, and doesn't corrode or retain smell.

I would happily pay for the cost of a glass bottle.

I don't understand why they aren't already the standard for high quality USA made products.

 

[mwa102464]

Thanks for your post guys, I absolutely would like to see Glass Bottles become the Standard in the industry. The more research and testing I do the more I see some differences in not only storage, but color change in juice,and taste. Put 2ml's of juice in a plastic bottle, and 2ml's of juice in a glass bottle, put on the window Sill for a week, heck even two weeks, then look at the color difference, that should make up your mind right there, then take a vape of each with a clean Atty, the juice in the Glass = Win. To many funky things going on with certain types of plastics in my opinion.

 

[mwa102464]

I would happily pay for the cost of a glass bottle.

I don't understand why they aren't already the standard for high quality USA made products.

I hear ya AG, Believe me though there is more then enough mark up in juice for them to provide glass bottles as well. For me it is simple, if they wont mix and provide glass bottles or give me the choice then I simply wont buy from them, there loss.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Why not be as cautious as possible. "As possible" being the operative words here. I am definitely on the same page as the OP about plastic concerns, and just concerns about vaping in general. I think the point is that we may not notice anything necessarily negative NOW, but we make precautions for the future. Vaping isn't the safest thing in the world to do, but I see now reason to be cavalier about possible additional risks that are not part of our calculated risks.

Thank you OP for bringing a level of consciousness to the topic. I don't fear possible hazards, per se, I fear not being aware, and you have made me aware!

p.s. OP, are you using bottom feeders? And if so, how are you reconciling this?

***EDIT***

If you could respond I would appreciate it.