premixing a base to just add flavor question

[Stacy1]

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times on this forum, but I have been searching for two and a half hours and I can not find what I'm needing to know. I've been doing the DIY a month or so now, and I'm wanting to make the process as convenient as possible because my work schedule doesn't leave me a lot of free time. I have 100mg nic in PG, PG,VG and when I mix I use the ejuicemeup calculator to determine the amounts of each needed to make a juice. I usually start by adding the PG, then the VG, then the flavoring, and lastly the nic. I try to make at least 5 mixes each time because I don't know how long it will be before I get another chance to make more. It takes a fair amount of time to measure out the base ingredients for 5 bottles minimum, and what I'd like to do is premix a base to where all I have to do is add base and flavoring to a bottle and be done. What I need to know is, what's a good ratio to mix a base to where once I add pg base flavorings I end up with somewhere in the neighborhood of a 60/40-70/30 mix? Also, my target nic right now is 12mg. Do I need to make the base stronger than that to allow for the diluting of adding the flavoring? The nic strength doesn't have to be exactly 12% in the final product. I usually vape 18mg but am trying to cut back, so if it's a little stronger than 12mg or a little weaker it isn't going to matter to me, but if it will change more than a percentage or two I'd want to make the base to allow for that and end up somewhere close to 12mg. I hope this is making sense. Reading it, it seems a little all over the place. I played around with the calculator a bit and it was easy enough to get a recipe to make a 12mg unflavored 50/50 mix, but then when I tried to use that base to calculate a mix that contained one flavor at 10% it could not calculate a 60/40 or a 70/30 mix because one value was in the negative. My flavor % varies from 5% single flavors to 20% with multiple flavors. Can someone point me in the right direction please

 

[Stacy1]

mid morning bump.I really need to get this figured out

 

[Spazmelda]

What percentage flavor to you typically add? Never mind, you said that in your original post.

 

[Spazmelda]

Also when you say you want 60/40 to 70/30, which are you listing first, VG or pg? You want higher VG or higher pg?

 

[DetraMental]

I make pre-mixed bases all the time and like you do not care if there is a slight discrepancy in the nic level since it's minute. You didn't mention how large you were going to mix? 30ml, 50ml, 120ml? There is such a small amount of flavoring added that I don't worry about the pg/vg levels either. As long as my base is right I'm good to go. Since your recipes will have different amounts of ingredients it would be tedious to make each bottle exact but if that's what you want to do you could by entering the data for those ingredients and making a base specifically for that ejuice.

 

[mattiem]

If you are just trying to get in the neighborhood of 60/40-70/30 just mix your base at 50/50. and if you just need your nic strength somewhere in the neighborhood of 12mg then mix up your base at about 15mg.

I mix up a base of 18mg 50pg/50vg since most of my diy mixes have 20% or more flavoring. Then I just add the flavoring to the bottle then use that premixed base to finish filling the bottle. Makes mixing fast and I don't have to bring out my 100mg nic each time I want to mix up some juice. I am not particular about my nic strength in my juice. Doing it this way some of them are all the way down to 10mg while other single flavor juices can be all the way up to 16.

I hope this help in some small way.

 

[Dougiestyle]

It's really simple, actually. A friend does this. Grab a calculator. If you're comfortable from 12-18mg, but are aiming lower toward 12, mix your PG-VG-Nic base to your preferred ratio of PG/VG. Most flavors are suspended in PG, so consider that. Now, all you have to account for is the percentage of flavoring that you add to reduce the nic/VG count.

If your unflavored PG-VG-Nic base is, let's say, 50/50@16mg, then after adding 20% flavor, your nic would lower to 12.8mg and your VG ratio would lower to 60PG/40VG if flavor is PG base. Adjust according to your tastes.

Figure your percentages. Whatever your flavor percentage is, subtract that percentage from your pre-mixed PG/VG/Nic base. There you have it. The flavor will vary the PG most likely, but be sure the flavor is PG based for accuracy. Your PG/VG will usually always be 100% unless using other bases as PGA or PEG, so your VG ratio will lower with the addition of PG-based flavoring.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Spazmelda]

Yes, if you start with say, 8 ml of 15 mg/ml and add 2 ml of flavor (20%) you will end up at 12mg/ml.

For that same base, if you start with 9 ml and add 1 ml of flavor (10%), you will end up with 12.5 mg/ml.

If you started with 9.5 ml of that base, and added .5 ml of flavor (5%), you will end up with 14.25 mg/ml.

For the ratio (this is without really doing any math, just a guess) start with about 10% more VG than you want in your final. So if you want 60/40 (VG/pg) make your premix at 70/30. That will probably get you close.

 

[Spazmelda]

Okay, so here are some numbers for the VG/pg ratio.

If you start with 9.5 ml of a 70/30 base, and add 0.5 ml of flavor (5%), your final ratio will be 66.5vg/33.5pg
If you start with 9.0 ml of a 70/30 base, and add 1.0 ml of flavor (10%), your final ratio will be 63vg/37pg
If you start with 8.0 ml of a 70/30 base, and add 2.0 ml of flavor (20%), your final ratio will be 56vg/44pg

Math for 1st example:

VG- 70% x 9.5 = 6.65 ml of VG
PG- (30% x 9.5) + 0.5 = 3.35 ml of PG

6.65 / 10 ml * 100 = 66.5%
3.35 / 10 ml * 100 = 33.5%

 

[Stacy1]

It sounds a lot easier reading these responses than it was when I was trying to think through it. I prefer flavor over vapor and do not have any allergy to pg so I prefer a little more pg in my mix. I'm pretty new to diy so usually I make small batches as I'm still experimenting and when I make something I like, I go back and make larger batches. From what I'm reading I should be able to premix a base at 15mg 50/50 pg/vg and end up somewhere close. Thanks for all the responses. I think I'm over thinking this stuff too much

 

[Dougiestyle]

Yep. KISS= Keep It Simple Silly. Glad you got it. Enjoy!

 

[mattiem]

It can seem a bit overwhelming at first but once you have a mix or two under your belt you will see that it really is easy. Happy we were able to set your mind at ease.

 

[Spazmelda]

Ah, yes, if you like more pg, then 50/50 15mg/ml will be pretty much perfect.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I have made almost the same base you need a couple days ago. I hate calculators. It’s easier for me to make a math in my head.
So, suppose we want to make a base to produce 100 ml of flavored juse at 12 mg nic (source - 100 mg in PG) at 60/40 pg/vg. Since we do not bother ourselves with exact percentages we can suppose we will add later about 10% of flavoring in PG; so we will subtract 10 ml volume (will be added with flavorings later) from our target volume and prepare 90 ml of base. We will add 40 ml of VG and 12 ml on 100 mg nic (PG). We will add 38 ml of PG, and our base is ready – just shake well after preparation and before usage.

Summary: Targe volume – 100 ml of juice at 60/40 PG/VG and 12 mg nic.
-------------------------
VG – 40 ml
Nic – 12 ml (100 mg in PG)
PG – 38 ml
----------------------
PG total (from pure PG and nic – 50 ml)
10 ml of PG will be added later with flavorings.

 

[mill4023]

After my first DIY mixing session, I decided it is too much work to add everything separately when I want to try a new flavor.
So I was trying to figure this out yesterday.

For the easy summary, skip to the bottom.

For 10% expected flavoring
Target Juice: 100ml of 70/30 (PG/VG) at 4.8mg/ml (480mg nic total)

Target Juice will contain:
PG - 50 ml
VG - 30 ml
Nic(48mg/ml in PG) - 10 ml (480mg total) (this piece will vary of course)
Flavor(in PG) - 10 ml (to be added later)

We leave out the flavor for our base, so we make 90 ml of base that ends up with 60 ml of PG(including whats added from the nic) and 30 ml of VG.

If we take the 60 ml of PG, divide by 90 ml of base, we get 67% (rounding).
If we take the 30 ml of VG, divide by 90 ml of base, we get 33%.
If we take the total of 480 mg of Nic in our 90 ml of base, we get 5.3 mg/ml

So we should start with a base that is 67/33 at 5.333 mg/ml

To test the calculations:
90 ml base (60 ml PG, 30 ml VG, 480 mg of nic)
10 ml flavor(10 ml PG)
End Result: PG/VG is 70/30, Nic is 4.8mg/ml

And to see what will happen if we use that same base with only 5% flavor
Final juice made with
95 ml base (63 ml PG, 32 ml VG, 506 mg)
5 ml flavor (5 ml PG)
End Result: PG/VG is 68/32, Nic is 5.06mg/ml

So not a big difference if you end up using more or less flavor than what you planned for.

To simplify, it seems that if you plan to use about 10% flavoring (PG based), just bump up the VG percent by about 10% and bump up the nic level by about 10% to get what you should use for the base.
So with my 70/30 pg/vg target, I bump vg by 10% (of 30) to 33 and with my 4.8mg/ml, I bump 10% to 5.3mg/ml

 

[DingerCPA]

I'm relatively new to DIY too, and I want this to be as simple as possible. I basically start with a 50/50 base and drop in my flavorings. I ran the numbers when I first started doing this, and my worst case scenario drops me to 60p/40v. I add my 50/50 nic on a tank-by-tank basis because I don't like how the nic oxidizes the juice after it sits for awhile. I just re-ordered some nic, and I believe I ordered 100% VG, so even if I do add a bit into a tank, it should scoot me closer to 50/50, but I don't think I can truly tell the difference between the range of 60p/40v - 40p/60v. I just want it to taste good!

 

[Stacy1]

Well tonight I made my first batch of base. I did the 15mg at a 50/50 ratio. I dont have a way to test the nic strength of my juice, but I made 6 5ml samples of single flavors, a 30ml bottle of a ry4 recipe, and a 30ml bottle of my Kentucky bourbon and ginger ale in record time! Soooo much easier. Now on to my next diy adventure of trying to come up with a good 100% vanilla custardy base that I can have on hand at all times steeping to add to my mixes when needed. Thanks a lot for the help guys. Would still be completely lost if not for the people on ECF

 

[HgA1C]

Here is a simplified equation (E-liquid bottle volume*Nicotine concentration desired)/(Base Nicotine concentration)=(Needed base ml's)

This way is converting actual nicotine mg's to volume. Lets say you have a bunch of 100VG 45mg/ml nicotine. You want to make a bottle of 15 ml at 18 mg/ml. Here is the easy part. Multiply the volume 15ml with the end concentration 18mg/ml and then divide by begining concentration to get volume needed of the base in the 15ml bottle. So (15*18)/45= 6ml of the 45mg/ml is needed. This is a basic chemistry equation (Vi)(Ci)=(Vf)(Cf) | Vi= Initial volume, Ci= Initial concentration, Vf= Final volume, and Cf= Final concentration. Please be cautious using this formula and triple check, it is a deceptively simple formula that is incredibly easy to F'up.

I have been spending many hours researching DIY juice. I have come to the conclusion many manufactures may use a 45mg/ml base as this translates nicely to the 24mg, 18mg, 12mg and 6mg levels in even ml's of base per bottle. This in theory should make it easy to produce and verify any common nicotine concentration.

I plan on starting up, and cutting my nicotine to 45mg/ml for long term storage in small usable quantities. I will most likely use VG to safeguard against any PG sensitivities that may occur, and this will limit the VG/PG percent I can make. 1L of 100mg/ml nicotine will last a LONG time, and I don't want to have to toss my supply.

 

[chopdoc]

If someone mixes up a base like being suggested with a PG/VG/Nic, how long would it be ok being stored in a cool dark place? I am new and just starting DIY and have heard a lot about storing nicotine in a freezer to preserve it, so am curious how long this mixture would be good for.

 

[DetraMental]

I've had my bases sit for a month or more with no noticeable change in color or strength.