Mi528hz you pretty much said it right when you said the minute you speak up about sub-par or even god forbid, bad service from V4L, expect to get flamed by the fanboys of the kr808 cult. When I responded to the last thread about V4L, I was immediatly called into question. I couldnt possibly be correct because I had only posted 10 times and 7 were in that 1 thread. I guess it never dawned on them that maybe that was the 1st time I actually felt like chiming in my 2 cents about a bad experience and I totally empathized with that poster about trying to rectify a situation with a what I thought to be highly reputable company. I use this forum like most others as a resource for information so I can get a little insight into other vapers experiences re: Equipment and Retailers, Troubleshooting and basically trying to keep my finger on the pulse of what is happening in this great community I am lucky enough to have found and be a part of. I think its a little funny how when you say anything bad about this company so many people jump to there defense without being a little objective. They themselves have admitted on numerous occasions and threads that they have experienced numerousproblems. I have yet to see any other retailer backpedal and make excuses repeatedly as to why" isolated " incidents have been springing up. Whats funny is that so many people applaud the fact that the customer servvice manager has posted his number on numerous threads but has any one ever stopped to wonder why does he have to in the 1st place? Has Madvapes, Clouds of Vapor, Nhaler, AlienVisions, Litecigusa or LiquidXpress just to name a few of the companys that i have ordered from in the last month had to do the same? I think not. I have had 2 issues with orders placed with these companies, were they big deals? no but crazy as it sounds and here is a novel concept that V4L might want to look into. They said they would fix the problem and here is the craziest part of the scenario, they did. Got a bad charger from Madvapes, boom David sent me one out no question asked, had 2 Hello16 batteries I got from Nhaler for co-workers fail, talked to sean and he said send em to him 2 more will be on the way. I sent emails and called these companies amybe once regarding the problem and they got right back to me, fixed it and i came away wondering how I can get some of these guys to teach there brand of customer service to other industries I am forced to deal with,(cable,DMV,Phone Company). When I tried to cancel or amend an order with V4L 10 minutes within placing it, I was told via email 6 or so hours later, My order was in an uneditable state and furthermore, since I had ordered the the wrong carto's( this was early on when I had just started and didnt know that a 510 would not support their carto's without an adapter) I should just buy an adapter cuz their carto's perform so well. Then this so called order that couldnt be edited didnt even ship for 5 days because they told me that they were having server problems. I was so ...... that if you go to there sit and look under blank wow cartos my review is there dated sept 8. Thats me from shoreline wash. Well I mean what do I know I couldnt possibly be expected to know what I am talking about or know anything, I mean I only got 12 posts......lol