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MacTechVpr

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Thanks, MacTechVpr, for passing on the results of your research, and for putting together a 1.8Ω wrap just for me! So, what is the difference between a 30 gauge 6/7x wrap on a 3/43 (~1.75mm) jeweler's screw driver and a 32 gauge 5x wrap on a 1/16" drill bit ?

Magic, good evening. I wanted to hop on this thread to apologize to you for a misleading error in my advice to you. To correct the facts for the record here.

In my build recommendations I suggested a coil configuration complementing Metalhed's great writeup on assembling Kanger heads. Unfortunately, I was laboring under a misunderstanding myself due to my oversight.

In my description to you, and elsewhere in several posts, I specified the Nextel product XC-116. That is incorrect. That product code has absolutely nothing to do with the material size. I was in fact using the product XC-132 which is nominally just under 2mm in cross section. And XC-116 is considerably thicker, upwards of 1/4". I received the product from a vendor now defunct and the product was not properly labeled. I made an apparently common consumer mistake with this product and associated the product model number for the size.

My apologies for any confusion or inconvenience.

Initially I had bought a substantial supply. Recently requiring more for testing in different devices I sought to order more and contacted sngvapor.com as I finally checked specifications for the product on the manufacturer's site. Casey at sngvapor was most instructive confirming my suspicions and a great help. I strongly recommend this knowledgable and dependable vendor.

And I confidently confirm my rec re Nextel "XC-132" (not that I know I've been using it) as it does work very neatly at 1/16 i.d. saving a great deal of aggravation in rebuilding. It's a powerful wick and clean by comparison with ordinary silica both in installation and reuse.

Sorry once again for the misunderstanding and good luck.

:blush:
 

magicmyst

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Magic, good evening. I wanted to hop on this thread to apologize to you for a misleading error in my advice to you. To correct the facts for the record here.

In my build recommendations I suggested a coil configuration complementing Metalhed's great writeup on assembling Kanger heads. Unfortunately, I was laboring under a misunderstanding myself due to my oversight.

In my description to you, and elsewhere in several posts, I specified the Nextel product XC-116. That is incorrect. That product code has absolutely nothing to do with the material size. I was in fact using the product XC-132 which is nominally just under 2mm in cross section. And XC-116 is considerably thicker, upwards of 1/4". I received the product from a vendor now defunct and the product was not properly labeled. I made an apparently common consumer mistake with this product and associated the product model number for the size.

My apologies for any confusion or inconvenience.
No worries. I don't even know what XC is, and had no plans yet to try it. Below is a description of my less than favorable results with cotton.
 

magicmyst

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OK Guys, yesterday I built my first 3 coils using 30 gauge, 8 wraps, nice tight coils with resistance at 1.8 to 2.1Ω. Just enough cotton to pull through before moving the coil. They're firing fine, good vapor production, no dry or burnt hits, but the flavor is not coming through, and sometimes the flavor as just plain bad. All my cotton has been boiled and rinsed twice.

This morning I replaced the cotton in one of them with 2 twisted strands of the legendary "Peaches & Cream" cotton yarn from Walmart. It's a slightly looser fit, and the results may be a bit better, but still not getting the flavor I'm accustomed to with a good stock silica wick/coil.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
 

magicmyst

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One of the major benefits of vaping is supposed to be that we're not inhaling smoke from burning tobacco. Well, you know, cotton burns, and while it may not be actually flaming inside that red hot coil, even if it's well saturated with juice, some of those fibers have got to be at least slowly burning, and we're inhaling it. Got to wonder if that's a good idea?
 

magicmyst

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FWIW, I built 3 more tonight using a shorter wrap: 6 wraps on a 1/16' drill bit- makes for about 1.75Ω, and I am going a tad lighter on the cotton. It's a little better, I think. Not getting any bad flavor, but still not getting what I'm used to on a good stock 1.8Ω silica coil. I am pleased with the beautiful coils I'm making, and getting great vapor, but if I'm not getting the flavor, it really doesn't matter. I'm open to any suggestions, but if I can't figure it out, I'm gonna start rebuilding on silica.
 

MacTechVpr

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FWIW, I built 3 more tonight using a shorter wrap: 6 wraps on a 1/16' drill bit- makes for about 1.75Ω, and I am going a tad lighter on the cotton. It's a little better, I think. Not getting any bad flavor, but still not getting what I'm used to on a good stock 1.8Ω silica coil. I am pleased with the beautiful coils I'm making, and getting great vapor, but if I'm not getting the flavor, it really doesn't matter. I'm open to any suggestions, but if I can't figure it out, I'm gonna start rebuilding on silica.

With my much more limited experience with RDA's and cotton, I would say you're right. If you're wick is too dense you will tend to throttle down juice flow. With your resistance lower you might still see good vapor but less flavor. The initial tendency is the more wick the better. But not necessarily so. Yes, more wick will carry more fluid. That's not critical in a bottom feeder where the wick is immersed. Also, you'll get denser vapor I've seen at higher resistance and with the right wick density this should translate to more flavor. More air, lighter more finely atomized vapor. But air flow drops with a slow down of vaporization. You get flooding of the coil, ultimately the tank. At least that's my observation. Maybe you're seeing a bit of it.

Now it's been my experience that if the wick is too dense you won't vaporize efficiently and the wick fouls easily. Thereafter, you will not see the flavor you originally started with. I wouldn't call it combustion but you definitely have deposits in the coil, juice and the cotton that absorbs it, the equivalent of overly caramelized butter or sugar if you overheat it on the stove. Did it combust, no. But that's what you're tasting, carbonization. Discoloration may be one of the first signs. Perhaps someone with a better appreciation of the chemistry of cooking can add to this, which is what vaping to me most resembles.

Before you consider focusing on silica do consider trying Nextel. I think you'll be greatly pleased with both the flavor and wicking prowess of the material. XC-132 is not cheap but it goes a long way if you wash your coils regularly (before they get too gunked up). It's possible then to torch them white again or nearly so. With my style of intense vaping that's not always possible as I often try to max out some tanks.

My best vape short of my own cotton in an Immortalizer so far has camp in at 30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. (XC-132), microcoil = 1.8Ω in both the Protank and 3TS.

If you do decide to try silica buy high quality silica rated at higher temp's. And do us a favor once you figure it out — let us know how you got the 1.5 mm silica into 1/16".

Good luck!

:glare:
 

magicmyst

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If you do decide to try silica buy high quality silica rated at higher temp's. And do us a favor once you figure it out — let us know how you got the 1.5 mm silica into 1/16".
I won't be trying that. The silica I have ordered is 2mm, so I'll be wrapping it with 32 gauge instead of stuffing it into a micro coil.

I'm going to continue experimenting with the cotton. One poster in another thread stated that all of his micro coils muted flavor somewhat, and suggested building a "standard" coil instead- more space between wraps. I may try that.
 

MacTechVpr

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:blink:

LOL, ok, maybe a good laugh on me.

Maybe I'm gonna have to re-try that 6/5 factory wrap. Been a long time.

(You know the one with the little separation in the middle).

For context.

Who was that masked stranger with the muted juice?

You'all just move along now; nothin' to see here.

:bye:
 

magicmyst

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:blink:

LOL, ok, maybe a good laugh on me.

Maybe I'm gonna have to re-try that 6/5 factory wrap. Been a long time.

(You know the one with the little separation in the middle).

For context.

Who was that masked stranger with the muted juice?

You'all just move along now; nothin' to see here.

:bye:
If, by the time my silica arrives, I'm not making progress with cotton, I'm gonna try that 6/5 factory wrap with the space- may even try it with cotton.

The masked stranger goes by Trayce. Here's the thread.

Cheers! Off to wrap another coil....
 

K_Tech

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One of the major benefits of vaping is supposed to be that we're not inhaling smoke from burning tobacco. Well, you know, cotton burns, and while it may not be actually flaming inside that red hot coil, even if it's well saturated with juice, some of those fibers have got to be at least slowly burning, and we're inhaling it. Got to wonder if that's a good idea?

As long as the wick stays properly fed with liquid, it will never get hot enough to burn.
 

permafrying

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Did my first coils basically using this method except I have 30 awg. First one was 1 ohm and forgot to bring it down so it touched the chute. Second one I upped the wraps to 6/5 and it came in at 1.9 ohms. Works amazing isn't leaking it's wicking great and was simple. Waaay better then the stock heads. Thanks for the thread man

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 

Sundodger

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I'm almost an old man, so I have to figure out how to do things the old man way. Couple of tips that work for me.
First is any video I've seen rebuilding Kanger's show people pulling out the rubber insulator after removing the bottom pin. No need to do that and stretch/ruin the insulator. You are removing it because you are replacing the coil, so pull the bottom pin, if you can see the wire bent from the center over the insulator bend it to the middle, then with the chimney removed pull the old coil out. Then take a small screw or what ever fits and PUSH the rubber insulator out instead of pulling/ripping on it. Those rubber insulators are very important and not easy to find replacements for and even if I do find them it's one less thing to buy.

I use a 2mm machine screw to rap my coils, you can find them at any Hobby shop that sells electric train hardware, while there get a track/wire snips, they are like an electricians side cutters (dykes) but much smaller and will give a real close cut to the coil wires. Once I rap the coil how many raps I want I just spin it off the screw, makes a perfect fit coil.

When I go to put the coil in I use a turkey scewer/trusser, they are stainless and fit nicely into the coil. It aligns the coil nicely while I put a small ball of cotton on top and then put the chimney softly in place, not smashing it, just enough to help hold everything in place.

After this I pretty much do everything the same, except removing the chimney and cotton and then rewicking with cotton. Took awhile to figure out how much cotton to use for the wick, it takes much less than one would think initially.

Happy vaping to all!
 
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h8louzn

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I'm almost an old man, so I have to figure out how to do things the old man way. Couple of tips that work for me.
First is any video I've seen rebuilding Kanger's show people pulling out the rubber insulator after removing the bottom pin. No need to do that and stretch/ruin the insulator. You are removing it because you are replacing the coil, so pull the bottom pin, if you can see the wire bent from the center over the insulator bend it to the middle, then with the chimney removed pull the old coil out. Then take a small screw or what ever fits and PUSH the rubber insulator out instead of pulling/ripping on it. Those rubber insulators are very important and not easy to find replacements for and even if I do find them it's one less thing to buy.

I use a 2mm machine screw to rap my coils, you can find them at any Hobby shop that sells electric train hardware, while there get a track/wire snips, they are like an electricians side cutters (dykes) but much smaller and will give a real close cut to the coil wires. Once I rap the coil how many raps I want I just spin it off the screw, makes a perfect fit coil.

When I go to put the coil in I use a turkey scewer/trusser, they are stainless and fit nicely into the coil. It aligns the coil nicely while I put a small ball of cotton on top and then put the chimney softly in place, not smashing it, just enough to help hold everything in place.

After this I pretty much do everything the same, except removing the chimney and cotton and then rewicking with cotton. Took awhile to figure out how much cotton to use for the wick, it takes much less than one would think initially.

Happy vaping to all!

So by reading this it looks like you place your cotton over the coil not thru it?

I just did my first coil today and it took a bit longer than most of you as i'm old and don't see good anymore. 1/16 bit 7 rap with 32 gauge and it came out at 3.2 ohm. I know its high but man what a nice vape and no leaking so far..

Thanks for the great write up!!!
 

MacTechVpr

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Nice thread I will be trying this, just got my pro2 and very glad I came across this. Thank you all for all the tips

I agree. I wish I had early on found such a concise intro on rebuilding clearo heads in a stable repeatable way. Even if you don't master accomplishing the "micro coil" immediately. Good tight consistent coils with careful termination of poles avoids the hot leg issues most of us encounter, sooner or later.

The only caveat for me and many others is silica, the most common media available. You can run a needle through silica, it's messy but doable. Insertion into the appropriate coil diameter is the real challenge. Say 2mm into a true 2mm i.d. coil, in many instances, maybe most, too big! Ain't gonna happen depending on your source. So test the media you want in the coil design you are trying for your target resistance. Decide that, first.

I wasted so much time hand winding inconsistent coils and messing around with generic sized objects like rubberized paper clips and screw diameters that didn't fit the wick media. That chocked or flooded the tanks I have had. You just need a few well built ones in your pocket, built on a standard measure, such as a 1/16" screw driver or drill bit, to understand the marked improvement. Then other adaptations come easily once you're assembly is consistent, whether it's cotton or other media. You have control of the wick and coil size relationship. Even if you settle for the compromise of winding on a bit guide, then using something like a needle through hollow core Ekowool you'e made a major step forward. That's to say you build the coil, insert the Ekowool 1.5 or 2mm sleeving into the coil, then run the needle through the center of the Eko/coil to stabilize it during assembly. Once you learn to introduce the media in a bare coil, that's huge! You're life's a breeze. Never a shortage of predictably efficent heads. That's history.

Once you're wicking in place with cotton, or Eko,Nextel...any braid...you're life is made so much easier. You can reburn/reuse bare coil assemblies all night and day and rewicking is ridiculously easy…once you know it's gonna fit. You designed it that way.

Good luck!

:)
 

magicmyst

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Once you're wicking in place with cotton, or Eko,Nextel...any braid...you're life is made so much easier. You can reburn/reuse bare coil assemblies all night and day and rewicking is ridiculously easy…once you know it's gonna fit. You designed it that way.
I may just try to find a coil size that will accommodate 2ml silica. I've given up on cotton for now because of the drop in flavor, and have been wrapping silica with variable results. It's challenging or frustrating, depending on mood.
 
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