Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[Emtbreid]

I'll check that out. I wouldn't think they're blocked, because whenever I fill/top the tank off, the bottom plate along w/ the coil is run under scalding hot water. Haven't had the issue ever since I switched to the adjustable valve.

I did give up on cotton though. Not because it wasn't working, but because of the aftertaste in my mouth and the sensation of something being in the back of my throat.

That being said, my package w/ nextel xc-132 arrived today. I just made a coil w/ the 32g wire I have (need to use it up before I get more) with about 5-6 wraps. I have the nextel in it, and so far so good. Will report back after I've got some more usage.

 

[K_Tech]

I'll check that out. I wouldn't think they're blocked, because whenever I fill/top the tank off, the bottom plate along w/ the coil is run under scalding hot water. Haven't had the issue ever since I switched to the adjustable valve.

I did give up on cotton though. Not because it wasn't working, but because of the aftertaste in my mouth and the sensation of something being in the back of my throat.

That being said, my package w/ nextel xc-132 arrived today. I just made a coil w/ the 32g wire I have (need to use it up before I get more) with about 5-6 wraps. I have the nextel in it, and so far so good. Will report back after I've got some more usage.

How well does the XC-132 fit into the wick slots in the head? I only have XC-116 on hand, but I've been thinking about ordering some 132 to experiment with.

 

[Emtbreid]

How well does the XC-132 fit into the wick slots in the head? I only have XC-116 on hand, but I've been thinking about ordering some 132 to experiment with.

Not bad at all. The coil I wrapped was w / a 5/64 drill bit, and threaded without issue. The only thing I found that the end of the nextel spread out some, so I had to use some of the 3m painters tape that was on the ends of the wicks to keep it in shape.

 

[K_Tech]

Not bad at all. The coil I wrapped was w / a 5/64 drill bit, and threaded without issue. The only thing I found that the end of the nextel spread out some, so I had to use some of the 3m painters tape that was on the ends of the wicks to keep it in shape.

Excellent, thank you.

 

[brookj1986]

Wow, so much more info. I've been using RT as a basis for my micro coil rebuilds of my PT. Use a 5/64 bit. Wrap tightly, torch, put back on the bit, and keep it tight the whole time while rebuilding. I need to get better at pulling the ends of the wires to break them. They always slip out of my grip.

I've been having AMAZING results. 50/50 juice that I could barely pump to 8.5 watts on the stock coil I was pumping amazing flavor with no leaking or gurgling at 15 watts. Crazy flavor and vapor production. Cotton wick.

Anyway, great info. I'll be reading thru all the pages eventually.

Edit: 28 gauge Kanthal

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

 

[Emtbreid]

Wow, so much more info. I've been using RT as a basis for my micro coil rebuilds of my PT. Use a 5/64 bit. Wrap tightly, torch, put back on the bit, and keep it tight the whole time while rebuilding. I need to get better at pulling the ends of the wires to break them. They always slip out of my grip.

I've been having AMAZING results. 50/50 juice that I could barely pump to 8.5 ways on the stock coil I wad pumping amazing flavor with no leaking or gurgling at 15 watts. Crazy flavor and vapor production. Cotton wick.

Anyway, great info. I'll be reading thru all the pages eventually.

Edit: 28 gauge Kanthal

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

Ah my friend, see you made it over! Mac is a gentleman and a scholar, he won't steer you wrong.

I tried cotton to begin with, but had some complications. May I suggest Nextel XC-132? A ceramic wicking material. Very durable. Expensive at $7 a foot , but will potentially last you several months if cared for properly.

XC-132 Ceramic Wick - 12" Heat Cleaned

 

[MacTechVpr]

How well does the XC-132 fit into the wick slots in the head? I only have XC-116 on hand, but I've been thinking about ordering some 132 to experiment with.

Not bad at all. The coil I wrapped was w / a 5/64 drill bit, and threaded without issue. The only thing I found that the end of the nextel spread out some, so I had to use some of the 3m painters tape that was on the ends of the wicks to keep it in shape.

Short Answer: XC-132 is undersized in a 5/64" coil. Pulse annealing (burn-in) is essential to producing an optimized contact micro coil. This step's done when localizing and terminating (setting) the coil at the bottom of the assembly slot. It can be accomplished in a Kanger ProTank with a 5/64" diameter coil by using a smaller mandrel as a guide for the coil with the risk of introducing distortion and misalignment.

I'm not going to try and dissuade either of you fella's from trying Nextel XC-132 inside a 5/64" wind. I love that Ø and Nextel as you certainly already know K is hard to describe with just one word for all of its excellent attributes. However, I've been doing a consumer study of rebuilding practices and wick media for six months. Nextel has figured prominently in that and has been tested extensively. In the course of this I abandoned 5/64" as a Ø for XC-132 in clearo's. Recently, and I wrote on it in the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread, I revisited a build at this spec for the umpteenth check of my early notes and observations and XC-132 is undersized in a 5/64" coil. It will be prone to short, flood, underproduce (diminished flow) and overheat (heat air) due to a loose contact with the coil surface. In fact I took it down after just two days due to the rate of overheating (darkening the test juice considerably, one of my faves, Johnson Creek Tenn. Cured). This I attribute to excess heat.

Here's what. It'd be great to hear from each of you on it. I'd ask for it but I know the answer already. It works fine, great. And you would be right. It does…with the conditions I've described. You would have to try Nextel in at least a half-dozen or so other dia/res config's I've posted to be able to see the significant differences between these winds in performance and vapor/flavor results. And then perhaps some more for experience. Perhaps also do this test several times for 5/64" even if you encounter darkening. It would help the group. As well run the parallel tests on alternate res. values.

Maybe not. You can't reliably use the localization and stabilization methods outlined on this thread with 5/64". You have multiple handling of the coil before its even created and set. We're human, the possibility of error goes up even for an experienced builder. If you happen to thread it before you localize and set you don't get a chance to visually see if a distortion has been introduced by then. I would ask when is the pulse annealing process essential to a true contact microcoil going to be done? It should be done at localization and termination before wicking if you wound a tension coil. So we're basically setting for a loose contact coil, or about the experimental beginnings of microcoils a year ago in Mar.

Only other way emt that I know to localize 5/64" in the slot is to file down the notches a few thousands for the assemblies you want to use this wind in. I've done it. Too much fiddle. Certainly for beginners. No guarantees. Not to mention trying to remember or even see which assy's you've reworked this way.

Just tryin' to save you some time and grief fella's. I guarantee ya the tension wind and 1/16" to .07" will get you there rock solid with this wick. I've reproduced this along with others hundreds of times.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Ah my friend, see you made it over! Mac is a gentleman and a scholar, he won't steer you wrong.

I tried cotton to begin with, but had some complications. May I suggest Nextel XC-132? A ceramic wicking material. Very durable. Expensive at $7 a foot , but will potentially last you several months if cared for properly.

XC-132 Ceramic Wick - 12" Heat Cleaned

Thanks emt. I won't as you know. And I'm not tryin' to be persnickety. Just tryin' to save people time so they can enjoy that great vape. I really would appreciate more feedback on Nextel performance, characteristics, new variations (and other wick materials too) by either PM or posts on this and the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread. It's good info to have. I found so little detail such as your splaying observation when I first started. It was rare.

Also, I think you make a good first step putting cotton on stand-by. Just don't abandon it. It's the best. Nextel is undoubtedly excellent for its utility but nothing replaces cotton.

Now the interesting thing is you seem to share my sensitivity to cotton. Cotton's taste is pervasive to me. Like linen right out of the laundry. And I CAN'T cancel it out in my mind like Eko or silica which also both have a strong and distinctive taste to me. In the Protank since the wick is immersed it doesn't tend to dry unduly unless overpowered or undersized. So that strong taste is not as pronounced as it is say in a dripper. However, it's so good emt that it's practically all I use in everything else. I likely would've skipped Nextel skewing the impartiality of my study if I had mastered the flow of cotton early on, spoiled.

Not trying to play devil's advocate here now that I got you interested in Nextel. LOL Just sayin'. It's an alternative for the flavor expedition.

Enjoy Nextel. I know you will fella's or I'd never have recommended it.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

In the past week or just over (yes, that's how long I've been rebuilding) I've had incredible success. Haven't faced any issues with cotton (except my girlfriend not paying attention to her juice level and vaping until dry, thus creating a need to replace the cotton wick. )

Maybe it's because even my imperfect wrapping of micro coils is still better than the stock wrap, or because I'm an idiot savant when it comes to wrapping (I'm leaning toward the former, not the latter), but it's been unbelievable. The 28 ga kanthal, generally heats quickly enough. I've noticed at lower wattages I may need to take an extra couple puffs. My PT coils have been between 1.7-2.1ohms all with great results.

Anyway, I'll likely sick with cotton for the time being as I can't afford to invest in New wicks at the moment. Spent more in the past 4 weeks on e stuff than I did in the previous 4 months.

Very interested to read about how to properly wrap a tension micro coil as I finally have gotten decent at the Rip Trippers/PBUSARDO method of wrapping.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

 

[MacTechVpr]

In the past week or just over (yes, that's how long I've been rebuilding) I've had incredible success. Haven't faced any issues with cotton (except my girlfriend not paying attention to her juice level and vaping until dry, thus creating a need to replace the cotton wick. )

LOL

Maybe it's because even my imperfect wrapping of micro coils is still better than the stock wrap, or because I'm an idiot savant when it comes to wrapping (I'm leaning toward the former, not the latter), but it's been unbelievable. The 28 ga kanthal, generally heats quickly enough. I've noticed at lower wattages I may need to take an extra couple puffs. My PT coils have been between 1.7-2.1ohms all with great results...]Very interested to read about how to properly wrap a tension micro coil as I finally have gotten decent at the Rip Trippers/PBUSARDO method of wrapping.

The videos are great and motivating. Unfortunately they don't expand on the details, the "why", to the extent that we have as a group here on this thread and the following. Anything is better than the predictably imperfect hand-over-hand factory wrap that we seem to emulate everywhere as if a ritual. We've known what a proper electrical coil is for more than a century.

The above pic is almost self explanatory. You need symmetry in the coil, which took seconds on that screwdriver, and in how you locate and terminate the coil in the assembly. A balance of geometry and tension. When you do that a tensioned contact micro coil explodes with flavor and vapor. You gain an efficiency which I estimate is over 20% based on observation of vapor output across many kinds of devices relative to the actual resistance. Why? Because electron flow is efficient. Balance the build and you will have an unbelievable vape which will make a great vape better than factory look like an amateurish experiment. Truth is though brook that it's actually easier to do it this way than to struggle trying to precision hand tune like a fly fisherman. Let nature help and you're golden. Visit my blog link below for thread links and video links on winding with tension. PM me anytime.

You'll find resistance value tables on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread. These will tell you if you're on target — close but high (ok), under (possible short).

Anyway, I'll likely sick with cotton for the time being as I can't afford to invest in New wicks at the moment. Spent more in the past 4 weeks on e stuff than I did in the previous 4 months.

Cotton is easy. And a great wick media for experimenting with coil design because it's flexible and forgiving. If you overwick you'll get a sucky draw and it's easy to reuse the coil where you might have had to scrap it with other media and certainly a hand wind. When you perfect the t.m.c. (tensioned contact micro coil) you will have the main tool to get every other aspect of rebuilding under control. It is the holy grail of vaping in my estimation. The thing that makes it just work. Get that in your kit brook, you'll be just fine. But there is media and winds, yes, that are appealing for various situations. Get the optimal electrical basis. You'll go there. Nextel and others have their own advantages and applications.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

LOL



The videos are great and motivating. Unfortunately they don't expand on the details, the "why", to the extent that we have as a group here on this thread and the following. Anything is better than the predictably imperfect hand-over-hand factory wrap that we seem to emulate everywhere as if a ritual. We've known what a proper electrical coil is for more than a century.

The above pic is almost self explanatory. You need symmetry in the coil, which took seconds on that screwdriver, and in how you locate and terminate the coil in the assembly. A balance of geometry and tension. When you do that a tensioned contact micro coil explodes with flavor and vapor. You gain an efficiency which I estimate is over 20% based on observation of vapor output across many kinds of devices relative to the actual resistance. Why? Because electron flow is efficient. Balance the build and you will have an unbelievable vape which will make a great vape better than factory look like an amateurish experiment. Truth is though brook that it's actually easier to do it this way than to struggle trying to precision hand tune like a fly fisherman. Let nature help and you're golden. Visit my blog link below for thread links and video links on winding with tension. PM me anytime.

You'll find resistance value tables on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread. These will tell you if you're on target — close but high (ok), under (possible short).



Cotton is easy. And a great wick media for experimenting with coil design because it's flexible and forgiving. If you overwick you'll get a sucky draw and it's easy to reuse the coil where you might have had to scrap it with other media and certainly a hand wind. When you perfect the t.m.c. (tensioned contact micro coil) you will have the main tool to get every other aspect of rebuilding under control. It is the holy grail of vaping in my estimation. The thing that makes it just work. Get that in your kit brook, you'll be just fine. But there is media and winds, yes, that are appealing for various situations. Get the optimal electrical basis. You'll go there. Nextel and others have their own advantages and applications.

Good luck.

Mac, could you direct me to the post number that explains how to wrap said tmc? I plan on reading thru all the pages, when I have a few minutes, but would love to see the method.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, could you direct me to the post number that explains how to wrap said tmc? I plan on reading thru all the pages, when I have a few minutes, but would love to see the method.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

A technique that takes all the guesswork out of tension:

Hold the spool (or wire) with a small vice grips, a needle nose or locked forceps between your knees. With elbows resting on your thighs and the wire extending from the spool, etc. forward of your knees to your hands…start your first wrap hand-over-hand then holding both ends of the screwdriver pull the screwdriver away until its taught but not strained, just tight. Gingerly start your turns…2, 3 then begin slightly adding tension. When you see them stack up right on each other add and maintain just a slight bit more tension…and you're there. At the very most the first 2 or 3 may be shy of adhesion but all ensuing should be pulling together on examination. If not, there wasn't enough tension.

This technique is perfect for spool or strain or tension winding sections of wire, particularly larger gauge wire or twisted which may or not be on a spool. Another use is the winding of calculated (for resistance) lengths of wire where you don't want to exceed a certain total resistance and have measured out the precise length required. I sometimes do this as a cross-check to metered results when in doubt (adding a known working length, say a 1/2" to each of the leads, which is removed at termination for the final yield).

The only difference between the above described procedure from the more advanced http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread is that the wire is taken right off of the spool. As you can see brook I roll the handle of the screwdriver on the edge of coil as it turns using it like a fulcrum to leverage even more tension on to the wind. In this instance I was winding ribbon and I wanted to add as much as possible. Like the example above. However, Not really that much power need be applied. It takes 2-3 times to get it right. To find nature's sticky point for Kanthal. Once you do, you'll nail it every time. The human brain's a wonderful thing.

Honestly, after those first couple, the first>second turns are just as tight as the last once you detect how much pressure you need to apply to reach adhesion. Adhesion is the point where enough energy has been imparted into the wire that a kind of metal memory is induced…and it wants to stay a coil, the coil that you wound. So you could do a brief experiment and test that the first time or two and you will find it, learn the muscle/motion memory necessary to execute it on your bit, screwdriver, etc. Sorta like typing, you learn to find the "return" key. And as you do you may find better or more comfortable hand-holds for the spool or source of the wire that you use.

Give it a try. Soon! LOL You won't regret it. Fact is you will have saved likely months of effort. Then you can move on to experiment with more satisfying experiments. But I gotta tell ya, having drawers, boxes and Altoid's tins full of these coils is pretty satisfying…and reassuring. Far and away removed from wondering whether the next one will work.

Good luck brook.

 

[brookj1986]

The only difference between the above described procedure from the more advanced http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread is that the wire is taken right off of the spool. As you can see brook I roll the handle of the screwdriver on the edge of coil as it turns using it like a fulcrum to leverage even more tension on to the wind. In this instance I was winding ribbon and I wanted to add as much as possible. Like the example above. However, Not really that much power need be applied. It takes 2-3 times to get it right. To find nature's sticky point for Kanthal. Once you do, you'll nail it every time. The human brain's a wonderful thing.

Honestly, after those first couple, the first>second turns are just as tight as the last once you detect how much pressure you need to apply to reach adhesion. Adhesion is the point where enough energy has been imparted into the wire that a kind of metal memory is induced…and it wants to stay a coil, the coil that you wound. So you could do a brief experiment and test that the first time or two and you will find it, learn the muscle/motion memory necessary to execute it on your bit, screwdriver, etc. Sorta like typing, you learn to find the "return" key. And as you do you may find better or more comfortable hand-holds for the spool or source of the wire that you use.

Give it a try. Soon! LOL You won't regret it. Fact is you will have saved likely months of effort. Then you can move on to experiment with more satisfying experiments. But I gotta tell ya, having drawers, boxes and Altoid's tins full of these coils is pretty satisfying…and reassuring. Far and away removed from wondering whether the next one will work.

Good luck brook.

What size/type of screw driver is that?

Just want to be sure I'm using the right size. Looks to be simple enough.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

 

[pjmarkert]

Mac, I will be trying tonight with pin vise and 1/16 drill rod.

 

[MacTechVpr]

What size/type of screw driver is that?

Just want to be sure I'm using the right size. Looks to be simple enough.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

That was a larger diameter for another device brook. I used ribbon as it was easier to see in the pic. Straight wire is easier.

For the ProTank and most clearo's typically 1/16" to .07" (1.778 mm) will fit into the slot which is nominally 1.8 mm (and a few thousands over). An 1.8 mm screwdriver will often work and is preferable (more wick is better, in it's natural state, just not overstuffed, compressed). For a starting point I recommend 30 AWG wire, 9-turns on this diameter which should give you approximately 2.0Ω, right at the mid point of warm/cool, vapor/flavor. I've posted other resistance/temperature targets on the Microcoil Disc. thread you may sample with 30g and other gauges.

Good luck and feel free to tap me on the shoulder.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, I will be trying tonight with pin vise and 1/16 drill rod.

Congraz! You'll love it. Here's to a great vape for you pj.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

That was a larger diameter for another device brook. I used ribbon as it was easier to see in the pic. Straight wire is easier.

For the ProTank and most clearo's typically 1/16" to .07" (1.778 mm) will fit into the slot which is nominally 1.8 mm (and a few thousands over). An 1.8 mm screwdriver will often work and is preferable (more wick is better, in it's natural state, just not overstuffed, compressed). For a starting point I recommend 30 AWG wire, 9-turns on this diameter which should give you approximately 2.0Ω, right at the mid point of warm/cool, vapor/flavor. I've posted other resistance/temperature targets on the Microcoil Disc. thread you may sample with 30g and other gauges.

Good luck and feel free to tap me on the shoulder.

Will need to order some 30 gauge... or maybe twist some 32 gauge? I also don't have them fancy metal jewelers screw sets. I have this set: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00009OYGV

I imagine they'll suffice, though may be a bit more difficult with the more rounded grips.

Always looking for newer options to impress myself even more. I've been pretty happy and relatively consistent with my cotton wicking recently. My first couple days, my vapor production was not nearly as good as the past few days.

Doesn't look to have a 1.8mm screw in that set. Looks to have a 2 mm (close to the 5/64 drill bit I had been using.)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

 

[pjmarkert]

Here is where I get wire from, very fast and cheap.
Kanthal A1 Wire 30 Gauge 100 ft 0 39oz Resistance Resistor AWG A 1 | eBay

 

[MacTechVpr]

Will need to order some 30 gauge... or maybe twist some 32 gauge? I also don't have them fancy metal jewelers screw sets. I have this set: Stanley 66-052 6-Piece Precision Screwdriver Set:Amazon:Home Improvement

I imagine they'll suffice, though may be a bit more difficult with the more rounded grips.

Always looking for newer options to impress myself even more. I've been pretty happy and relatively consistent with my cotton wicking recently. My first couple days, my vapor production was not nearly as good as the past few days.

Doesn't look to have a 1.8mm screw in that set. Looks to have a 2 mm (close to the 5/64 drill bit I had been using.)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

A good quality pin vice and cheap precision drill blanks are the ticket. Good hand hold, good tight specs. But this is cheap and I have a few because I know they're common and easy to find…

12 Piece Precision Screwdriver Set | eBay

The two marked 3/43" are roughly .07". Sometimes need a little sanding for rough spots that can disrupt the coil removing or reinstalling it (that you have to be careful with). The rounded phillips heads are kinder on coils. I sand down the side edges of the flats as well for rough spots and to make insertion easier in a coil (not the flat, the sides).

Good luck brook.

 

[brookj1986]

A good quality pin vice and cheap precision drill blanks are the ticket. Good hand hold, good tight specs. But this is cheap and I have a few because I know they're common and easy to find…

12 Piece Precision Screwdriver Set | eBay

The two marked 3/43" are roughly .07". Sometimes need a little sanding for rough spots that can disrupt the coil removing or reinstalling it (that you have to be careful with). The rounded phillips heads are kinder on coils. I sand down the side edges of the flats as well for rough spots and to make insertion easier in a coil (not the flat, the sides).

Good luck brook.

Thanks Mac. I ordered that plus a $4.99 set that includes a 1/32" screwdriver to allow me to make nano micro coil. Also ordered 100' Kanthal 30 gauge from TemCo.

Going to have some fun. Will need to pick up a vice or something to hold the spool as I only have spring loaded pliers.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.