Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[brookj1986]

I have to say, for just over a week I was hand rolling mc for my PT2 mini with great results that completely changed my opinion on the pt2 mini. Then I was introduced to this thread and see all this technical info (which I'm still obviously getting a grasp on, though the theory behind it all makes a great deal of sense) and it has already improved on my great pt rebuilding experiences.

Thank you all for the info! Mac, you've helped a ton and I'm getting closer to a proper tmc, though I'm sure I'm not quite there yet.

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[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the feedback. I have 100 feet of 32g (minus what I've used) and have better success so far hand winding. Consistently getting 1.7ohms with 5 wraps. Wanna make the leap into true micro coils though. I've ordered my first RDA, so I'm looking for wire that will be optimal for both the Kanger coil heads and the RDA. I'm seeing a lot of folks recommending 29g. Too large of a gauge?

Just as a side note, this is my first venture into building any electronics from the ground up, so I have very elementary understanding of the principles of resistance, ohms, wattage, voltage, etc.

I think 29 AWG will be more suitable to most RDA's but 30's sturdy enough and good for minute adjustments of target resistance.

30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √

Target resistance tables are published on the thread...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

I've often used coils withdrawn from Protanks in small drippers and in dual coil arrangements. So the basic methods learned here will serve you well.

Good luck.



p.s. You can even use 32g to make twisted pair in lieu of 28 gauge. Makes for a slightly cooler vape. And it's a good gauge for compact clearo's like the 3TS.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Is it possible that the head is corroded or dirty causing the connection from the wire to the head to heat up? The rubber insulators usually have very slight burn marks at the top where the wire comes in, but in this case maybe burn marks further down the insulator (inside or outside) could point to a bad connection.

Certainly possible. I run testing in a consumer study. The preponderance of resistance variations described above boil down to bad coil or termination geometry. Dirt and corrosion are part of the standard 'round these parts. They stay in rotation until I get a chance to pull enough overnight washes to run the ultrasonic cleaner. I think, a leg hanger'll skew that cargo-meter 9/10 times. The rest a coil/leg issue (if you're building a proper coil to begin with). Otherwise, with a standard wind it's the reverse (greater short risk).

Some burns are subtle and can't be seen unless you shut off the lights (low thermal energy). Still a short. Still skews resistance. Still scars the grommet. No burn though.

Things to look out for.

Good luck.

:_

 

[PariahNine]

Went ahead and ordered 100 feet of both 30g and 28g Kanthal. Was gonna order 29g as well, but Temco was all out and said it would be a couple months before they'd have the raw materials to make more. I'm debating ordering a couple different pin vises from Amazon that are considerably cheaper than the one linked previously. I also have a foot of XC-132 that arrived a couple days ago. Last question I have is, what diameter do I want to wrap my coils at to reasonably accommodate the XC-132?

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[brookj1986]

Went ahead and ordered 100 feet of both 30g and 28g Kanthal. Was gonna order 29g as well, but Temco was all out and said it would be a couple months before they'd have the raw materials to make more. I'm debating ordering a couple different pin vises from Amazon that are considerably cheaper than the one linked previously. I also have a foot of XC-132 that arrived a couple days ago. Last question I have is, what diameter do I want to wrap my coils at to reasonably accommodate the XC-132?

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I got the one that I linked (copied from a different post pretty recently). It was $9ish and fits nicely with 5/64 th (if you really tighten the clamp) and great with the 1/16th with some tight fidgeting.

Link others you're looking at... I love to get a view as I'll need to replace mine eventually.

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[PariahNine]

I ended up settling on this set. $5.12 with free shipping, and they're made of high carbon steel. While I'll only likely use the one out of the set, the others I can use for other applications.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001EPX75U/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A3NUNNXXHUJDMF

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[brookj1986]

I ended up settling on this set. $5.12 with free shipping, and they're made of high carbon steel. While I'll only likely use the one out of the set, the others I can use for other applications.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001EPX75U/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A3NUNNXXHUJDMF

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See, I like the fact that the other one has the rotating part by the palm. Makes twisting extremely easy. I'm sure that set will do a great job. Let us know how you like it!

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[PariahNine]

I'm actually gonna order this one as well. $2.77 with free shipping from the same company.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001EPV8JM/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A3NUNNXXHUJDMF

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[brookj1986]

I'm actually gonna order this one as well. $2.77 with free shipping from the same company.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001EPV8JM/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A3NUNNXXHUJDMF

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Great for pt micro coils to nano micro coils.

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[MacTechVpr]

Went ahead and ordered 100 feet of both 30g and 28g Kanthal. Was gonna order 29g as well, but Temco was all out and said it would be a couple months before they'd have the raw materials to make more. I'm debating ordering a couple different pin vises from Amazon that are considerably cheaper than the one linked previously. I also have a foot of XC-132 that arrived a couple days ago. Last question I have is, what diameter do I want to wrap my coils at to reasonably accommodate the XC-132?

I answered extensively on this subject on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread, Best wicking option? The one that works!...

...And that by far I've so far found is the Nextel braid. Specifically the ceramic XC series, not the silica XS which shares the same weave. As I have stated on many posts over the past four months Nextel ceramic braid threads easily into 1/16" through about .07" (1.8mm) which is the range of optimal or necessary diameters for most clearos. You know the ones we almost all of us use and rely upon (even if we deny it). Threading is our nemesis, the bain of our existence. And Nextel is by far the easiest…if we understand and acknowledge that at the end of those 30 seconds or so it must perform consistently each and every time.

Watch diameters larger than 1.8 mm as you will not be able to drop the bit all the way down the slot. If so you won't be able to properly tension the legs. That will leave two potential trouble sources that will reduce the efficiency of the coil or cause it to short. While it's possible to use a smaller diameter bit to locate the coil tensioning with it may distort the coil producing the same result.

I suggested earlier perhaps filing the slot a few thousands to allow the use of a 5/64" bit. If the possibility of using slightly thicker cotton, Eko or silica inside of 2mm instead of Nextel suits your vape this may be a desirable option.

Good luck.

 

[pjmarkert]

I answered extensively on this subject on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html thread, Best wicking option? The one that works!...




Watch diameters larger than 1.8 mm as you will not be able to drop the bit all the way down the slot. If so you won't be able to properly tension the legs. That will leave two potential trouble sources that will reduce the efficiency of the coil or cause it to short. While it's possible to use a smaller diameter bit to locate the coil tensioning with it may distort the coil producing the same result.

I suggested earlier perhaps filing the slot a few thousands to allow the use of a 5/64" bit. If the possibility of using slightly thicker cotton, Eko or silica inside of 2mm instead of Nextel suits your vape this may be a desirable option.

Good luck.

Just a hint here: I have Protank replacement heads that have a narrow slot that wont fit anything bigger that 1/16th, some of my older heads that came from MT3S have wide slots that fit 5/64 with no problem.

 

[brookj1986]

I think I made my first successful tmc. It's a 28 gauge on 5/64 for one of my RDAs.

Opinions?

After a close up zoom, I see it's not as tight as I thought... getting there.

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[MacTechVpr]

Just a hint here: I have Protank replacement heads that have a narrow slot that wont fit anything bigger that 1/16th, some of my older heads that came from MT3S have wide slots that fit 5/64 with no problem.

Thanks pj for that. I suspect you're trying to help me not look foolish. Real kind of ya pardner. No worries. We (foolishly) take that chance every day. It's worth it to try to contribute here to get folks past the crunch and really appreciating the vape.

Prove all things is the adage I try my best to adhere to and recommend to all.

The standard Kanker ProTank assembly head slot width is a maximum of about 1.8 mm. You'll notice it has a notched "V" at the top of the assembly cup and is the coil head to the Kanger ProTank series, the Mini and EVOD.

The Kanger MT3s/T3s use a different coil assembly than the KPT series. It's not notched and is uniformly 5/64" top to bottom.

This difference has been noted previously on the two ProTank threads. It bears repeating for those that want to take advantage of the 2mm wick option. Too bad it doesn't work on the KPT (I've tried and it doesn't vape well, leaks as flange is narrower).

Thanks for pointing this out pj.

Good luck.

 

[islandgirl305]

I do the same thing with a machine screw , instead of drill bit , it makes the coil perfect , and you can press together with tweezers and heat with torch to make micro coil , love the cotton , taste much better , great pics here

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think I made my first successful tmc. It's a 28 gauge on 5/64 for one of my RDAs.

Opinions?

After a close up zoom, I see it's not as tight as I thought... getting there.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Man it looks damn good. And as it is will probably fire micro first shot. I would still delicately squeeze it while pulsing. There do seem to be some slight irregularities. But I wouldn't be down on yourself brook. That's excellent.

Sometimes there is some rotational torsion in the wire. That will produce some inconsistencies in the mating surfaces. Often you can overcome that if you have such a spot on the spool by winding with just a bit more tension. I just try again if I'm shooting for 100% adhesion. A quick and dirty for the back-pocket…I'll make double sure to tension the end turns well throughout the install.

I'll warn you though that unfortunately some of those inconsistencies only get worse as you proceed with install. So you might end up with a minute gap (hard to perceive without magnification) that you have to form out by compression at the pulse. And perhaps several times. Mostly though you'll end up micro.

brook it happens. We're not perfect. The wire's not either. Shoot for the best you can do with the best approach and tools you have…and enjoy your vape!

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Man it looks damn good. And as it is will probably fire micro first shot. I would still delicately squeeze it while pulsing. There do seem
to be some slight irregularities. But I wouldn't be down on yourself brook. That's excellent.

Sometimes there is some rotational torsion in the wire. That will produce some inconsistencies in the mating surfaces. Often you can overcome that if you have such a spot on the spool by winding with just a bit more tension. I just throw it the wind and try that if I'm shooting for 100% adhesion. A quick and dirty for the back-pocket…I'll make double sure to tension the end turns well throughout the install.

I'll warn you though that unfortunately some of those inconsistencies only get worse as you proceed with install. So you might end up with a minute gap (hard to perceive without magnification) that you have to form out by compression at the pulse. And perhaps several times. Mostly though you'll end up micro.

brook it happens. We're not perfect. The wire's not either. Shoot for the best you can do with the best approach and tools you have…and enjoy your vape!

Good luck.

Do you squeeze while pulsing or pulse/squeeze/pulse/squeeze? I only have metal tipped tweezers and worry it would create a short if I had contact with the coil while pulsing.

Just want to be sure I'm not crazy.

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[MacTechVpr]

I do the same thing with a machine screw , instead of drill bit , it makes the coil perfect , and you can press together with tweezers and heat with torch to make micro coil , love the cotton , taste much better , great pics here

Yes it does produce better flavor, a stable uniform wind. You make a great point Spotnik. I know I went through many dozens of screw drive tests wound hand-over-hand and as tensioned coils…half a year ago. I really believed in the screw system. But I concluded it was going to be one of the most difficult things in the world to get the average person to adopt without a lot of confusion and fiddly. <shrug> Then there's also the problem of getting them down into the slot of the typical clearo to properly terminate lead connections. Not always easy. I'll show you my collection of screw spec pages.

I'd add though that winding on a mandrel, bit or screwdriver produces a superior geometry and also let's you predict (by the Ø) the resistance easily and fairly accurately. You can certainly do that with a screw but have fun with the screw spec tables and figuring out pitches. And who's going to take the time to post those kinds of results for others?

Secondly, you need adhesion to form a true contact micro coil that approaches 100% efficiency. I've written extensively about it on this and other threads. You might want to take a peek. It adds to the efficiency that you discovered.

The approach I describe is simple, works and is practical as reproducible.

Good luck and enjoy the vape.

 

[DaveP]

Anyone tried RipTripper's methods? This guy has it down pat and he's interesting to watch.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Do you squeeze while pulsing or pulse/squeeze/pulse/squeeze? I only have metal tipped tweezers and worry it would create a short if I had contact with the coil while pulsing.

Just want to be sure I'm not crazy.

No you def don't want to squeeze 'em while firin'. No do dat dude. Been there.

And as tight as you're wrapping you don't need much. I have several conventional tweezers. Right now I'm using a needle point tweezer and apply very subtle pressure to specific points on the coil only. But I use magnification routinely brook to do this. I need to but most people may not need or want to. It's not necessary.

There are ceramic tweezers that will allow you to pulse without shorting. They can be expensive and fragile. I'm lookin for some.



Good luck brook.

 

[brookj1986]

Anyone tried RipTripper's methods? This guy has it down pat and he's interesting to watch.

I started with Rip Trippers method. He's awesome and really does help a ton! He's got the hand over hand roll down. I've been trying to combine his methods with the tension micro coil process and really fit all of it to my preferences to see what works best.

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